When clients think they're friends...really? (Full Version)

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BoiJen -> When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 5:30:23 AM)

Before we moved, one of MsKitty's former clients who was graced with a few minutes time on IM decided to get in contact with Her. She hadn't heard from him in about 4 years but he wanted to call himself Her "friend" cuz She let him buy Her lunch before a professional session. He said he would make time to visit Her before She left, so long as he got alone time with Her. Never mind we're packing, never mind She doesn't have time for Her actual friends....this guy thinks he should be given a present of Her time.

So a few months later he catches up to Her on FL...cops an attitude with me for demanding he identify himself cuz he's been Her "friend" and doesn't know who I am. (I've been involved for the last 3 years with MsKitty...tells you how out of the loop this guy is even if he was a friend).

Fast forward to this weekend, and this guy is contacting Her again as if none of this ever happened and posting all over his twitter what a "byatch" I am cuz I filtered Her messages as She told me to. She writes him informing him that he's over stepped his boundaries and She's done being nice..."don't contact Me anymore, hope you've learned something from being pushy and that next time you deal with someone that you behave better as to have a better relationship with them." She meant every word sincerely cuz She asked a friend of Her's if it sounded sincere in hoping that this guy grows.

In a "devastating" turn the client blogs about being "abandoned" by MsKitty on blogspot and FL. I couldn't let this stand and posted a comment in an attempt to set the record straight.

Here's my question Ladies...how the fuck do you get rid of these needy types who border on stalker without compromising yourselves?

Do I do anything else? Did I already do too much?

This is just really bugging me as this guy continues to overstep the boundaries set by victimizing himself as a "abandoned friend" instead of a rejected, inappropriate, client.

Not bothering Ma'am about this cuz it's Her long day at work and She told this guy She was done talking to him (so I don't think Her responding to him to cut his shit would be good cuz then he gets Her attention).

boi

[Mod Note:  reference to other user removed]




MsStarlett -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 5:54:24 AM)

Sadly, you don't.  They pretty much just have to blow themselves out.  The good news is that most people have had to deal with these cyber stalkers and bullies and any intelligent person takes such venomous blogs/posts about a 3rd person with a grain of salt.  Every one who has had more than one relationship has had one go bad and knows that the 'jilted party' can do some pretty dreadful things.  The anonymity of the internet lets those bad apples vent in a very public, and often imbarrisning way.  It all boils down to the fact that a very small number of people actually read such rants.  Even less actually believe that everything they say is true.  Just trust that none of MsKitty's actual friends or clients will believe a word of it.

After all... I'm not a ProDomme, but I do run a small business.  We get people who will throw a temper tantrum when we tell them they need to PAY for the merchandise that we saw them destroy or we refuse to give refunds to customers who can't make up their minds and buy seasonal items they don't really want bad enough to pay for... just want to buy it, use it for one night then bring it back.  The often threaten "I'll never shop here again!  And I'll tell all my friends to say away also!"  We ususally smile and say "Thank you." implying that if their friends are anything like the fit throwing nut in the building, I don't want their business anyway.




Starbuck09 -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 6:01:59 AM)

 The man sounds in equal measures a fool, a fantasist and an attention seeker a particuarly unpleasant combination of personality traits. Unfortunately these same traits mean that it will be between difficult and nigh impossible to demonstrate to him the error of his ways as that will do nothing but feed his fantasy of being a lovelorn swain castigated by someone he doted upon. You have my sympathies Jen as this must be very jarring but having seen your response on Fetlife I would leave it there. You've made your case clearly [and from his fumbling reply unanswerably] and no more needs to be said.




BoiJen -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 6:07:00 AM)

Yeah...it's kinda difficult to sit back and not correct him on this "history"....clearly he's blurred the line between fantasy and reality.

Has anyone else ever dealt with this type of thing? What would you consider a successful or unsuccessful approach?

boi




Starbuck09 -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 6:17:16 AM)

 I'm afraid that my experience of this is somewhat limited Jen. What I will say though is presumably if anyone important [i.e. actual friends] see this saga then they will ask you and your partner about it and fill them in completely. Those that are not your friends will see your response to his nonsense and will have to make up their own minds as to who is correct. [I don't know you Jen but from reading his soliloquy I believe you are completley in the right otherwise I would not be writing this] Those you don't know but think you are wrong and don't care to ask...are they such a loss?




DarkSteven -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 6:58:18 AM)

Jen, first the good news and then the bad news.

The good news is that this guy is a moron and you're not the only one who knows.  He radiates it.  In the four years between contacts, he's likely been pissing off all the other Dommes locally.

The bad news is that you yourself have gotten emotionally involved in this far more than you should.  For crying out loud, he's just an idiot with Internet access.

Any response from you should be brief and avoid details, such as "MsKitty and I respectfully disagree with MrAsshole's view of things."  Your goal is to make him look like a fool throwing a temper tantrum, NOT to counter him point by point.






GreedyTop -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 7:14:51 AM)

*agrees with DS*




DianeB269 -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 7:37:57 AM)

The guy is an idiot....


Diane




LadyPact -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 7:55:37 AM)

Not a pro domme here either, but I can sympathize.  One of the things that I've noticed over the years is that some clients of pros become deluded about the level of importance they have on a personal level from what really amounts to a business transaction.  If it were Me, that would be the only type of response any of this would get.  Point out the fact that this person was a client and only a client.  From there, everyone understands that the guy wasn't a part of Ms K's personal life and the ramblings are just hot air.




cloudboy -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 8:00:42 AM)


If you are in a lose - lose situation -- dealing with someone who does not deal fairly or honestly with you -- then I agree with MsStarlette -- let them expire on their own and don't do anything to make the situation worse. I have a lose - lose situation with my neighbor who is out to get me (make me look bad to other neighbors, get me in trouble with the HOA, petty shit like this.)

He regularly sends me hostile emails -- and I decided I would simply not respond to him anymore and informed him that all contact between us would have to be F2F (he does not have the character to confront me man to man.) From past experience, I know that I cannot improve our relationship or get him to act differently, so I just have to let it go and not make it worse. The trick is not to get mad or upset and let him get to me (which is his goal.)

Someone who knew this person from work coined the description "bottomless asshole," and over the years that has proven to be a dead on description. Lucky me, I get to live next to him....... but I'm managing it. It will never be a good situation until we move somewhere else.




BoiJen -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 8:02:48 AM)

By the third post there, it seems that some people don't understand what client means...("subbie backlash"...whatever that is).

Working on not being emotionally attached to the situation, not really sure why I'm this attached in the first place, maybe it's the protective bit of being Ma'am's boi.

Thanks for the feedback. If anyone else has anything constructive to add, I'm good with hearing it.

boi

[Mod Note:  reference to user removed again, knock it off Jen]





slaveluci -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 9:26:29 AM)

Sorry....I thought the "clips4sale" link was broken but the site is still accessible. It's just that when attempting to go the exact link you have in your sig, it says it's unavailable. Newsbrief over..........luci




BoiJen -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 9:31:25 AM)

I'll ask slaveKal about that, he manages the clip store there.

The link I had in the OP, obviously isn't the same link.

Thanks,

boi




MsStarlett -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 9:53:05 AM)

In my experiance of Net wars, as DarkSteven suggested, the less you say the better.  The more he rants and the less you fight, the more he looks like the fool and you look like the bigger person for not stooping to his level.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 10:03:26 AM)

Oh, I was going to post how you are made of win for your journal entry on the other site!  I wonder if there IS a way to get rid of jerks like him... and he is a MARRIED guy, too, ladies, so you can see why he rates an extra eyeroll from me. 

I am still friends with some of my former clients.  How do I know?  Because we see each other when we can, have lunch, I invite them to my private parties... you know, the stuff you do with FRIENDS.   I know that MsK didn't give that guy the wrong impression while he was her client, because that is NOT how she does business.  Block and ignore?  Is there a nasty clients area on maxfisch?  (There SHOULD be~)




PeonForHer -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 10:37:30 AM)

the less you say the better.

Definitely.  If possible, silence.  This is the quickest way to depersonalise it for him, and despersonalising it's the way to make him lose interest.  Nobody stalks 'machines'.




littlesarbonn -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 11:31:00 AM)

Part of the problem you're dealing with is that a LOT of these guys don't actually have a social life, and their interactions with a professional dominant ARE their main attempt at a social life. So, you (the OP) are already involved in REAL life with the professional dominant and for you it's a reality. The other person is living in a fantasy but perceives it as reality. He probably thinks about her all the time, and because of this, he probably believes that she thinks about him just as much. This psychosis is not unusual; obsessed people go through it all of the time.

I've been involved in the social lives of professional dominants before, and part of the quandary is that they are perpetrators of a fantasy reality that they can turn off when it's time to take off the dominant costume, but some of their clients are not capable of seeing the person without the costume, and think the person is always the person they saw during their particular session. And this guy got a "date" with her once, so now he actually thinks he's really good friends with her. In his mind, he probably is. He's probably had some great conversations with her, in his mind.

Unfortunately, you're now in the cross hairs of this guy that thinks you're actually working to deflate his "real" relationship with your owner/partner/whatever. So, of course he's going to take it out on you. It doesn't matter that he's wrong or acting in a destructive way. He sees you as the reason he can't go back to his "reality" and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even think the dominant in question has any impact on the decisions that have been made. In his mind, you're manipulating her behind his back, so again, he can easily lash out at you and not feel that he's doing anything wrong to the person he perceives to be his friend.

So, what can you do? You've done some thing right and others that might be questionable. I'm not an end all on what's right or wrong, so I won't try to argue you've done anything wrong, but that you're probably feeding into his ridiculous frenzy. If he posts crap on the Internet, ignore it. Or point it out to your mistress, and let HER deal with it. Being the staunch defender only serves to keep him riled up, making him look for new venues to do damage. The more he is ignored, the more likely he is to seek out someone else or just go away. Sure, he might be inconvenient for a bit, but unless he starts physically stalking (and then it's a police matter), then he's going to grow tired of being ignored.

I'll be honest. It's not hard for a submissive to think he's much more than he really is in a professional dominant's life. It's happened to me as well. Granted, I didn't stalk the person or go nuts or anything like that, but I have been in situations where I honestly thought I was more than just a potential client with a woman, only to discover that in the end I was really just another client, even if the payment was service rather than money. Men have a tendency to remember the really good moments in a relationship (like where a dominant told me she was very interested in me and my service to her) rather than the other moments where you didn't realize that things weren't working out as you hoped they might be, or as they seemed to be while wearing slave-like, rose colored glasses. Unfortunately, some submissives aren't capable of successfully moving on.




hlen5 -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 12:06:00 PM)

"The best response is NO  response".  Gavin DeBecker, The Gift of Fear

It is a great book with a great section on how to deal with stalkers (but read the whole thing, you won't regret it!).




BoiJen -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 4:27:52 PM)

I wanted to thank everyone for their advice and support today. I spent the majority of the rest of the day plaiting and working on my latest community project until it was time to make Ma'am's dinner.

She's home now so it's time to eat.

Thanks again.

boi




DarkSteven -> RE: When clients think they're friends...really? (8/31/2009 5:11:04 PM)

You sound calmer.  That's good!




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