RE: Obey

RE: Obey (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

CaringandReal -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 5:53:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b My concept of obedience. Two choices. 1. Obey. 2. Walk. If I'm told to do something - 1 response. Yes. It gets done. If I'm asked to do something 3 responses. (1) Yes. It gets done. (2). Yes but there's a problem you need to know about, e.g. difficulty or delay. (3) No it's not possible for me to do that. (This is a response only when it is clearly not possible for an instruction to be carried out). This distinction becomes a bit difficult to make with dominants (and there are a surprising number who do this) who like to frame their commands in terms of requests. ;) quote: My concept of obedience is absolute. There's no consideration of my feelings or emotions or thoughts and the above applies even if what I am required to do is stressful, difficult, dirty, shitty, boring, repetitive, menial, whether it arouses within me feelings of disgust, fear, whether it upsets me, causes me pain, discomfort, or anything else. ... This is how I was trained by my formative domme in Warsaw, Poland communicating only in the Polish language (her native language). There was no margin for error allowed for any shortcomings in comprehension, understanding or communication. How can one possibly be trained with this "one strike and you're out" policy in place? You're under training and 15 minutes into it the domme throws a hard ball or you screw up through a minor misunderstanding. Boom! End of training? So how do new submissives learn? Making mistakes is how most of us learn. They teach us so much. And pople new to submissiion do make mistakes, if not in atittude, then in understanding what a specific dominant wants or in an interpretation. Commands are not always clear and unambiguious. Attention wanders at at the damndest times when a specific detail of a complex order is being given, or attention is focused on the wrong aspects of the command. Etc. Surely you're not saying you made absolutely no mistakes and were perfectly obedient during your entire training period? In every other field that is difficult to master (so to speak), newcomers or apprentices to the field are given some leeway in the mistakes department. They are given very simple tasks at first, and not summarily dismissed if they get confused or mess up due to unfamiliarity with the processes and habitual practices. If they were there would be very few professionals or experts in any field.

stella41b -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 6:20:42 AM)
Coming back to this thread I can't help thinking that some of the issues raised in the 'well it's not that cut and dried' points are ones which perhaps need to be settled earlier on in the dynamic. Absolute obedience to me isn't just 'doing as you're told because I tell you', but something which requires three main components which are knowledge (of your dominant and what they expect both globally and specifically), motivation (coming from within the submissive) and also discipline (also coming from within the submissive). Obedience was such an integral element of the relationship that my formative domme had a stipulation that it was tied to hard limits. She felt that if you weren't prepared to commit to giving her obedience as she wanted it, then she didn't feel any sense of commitment when it came to consideration of your hard limits. Her view was that the absolute obedience element of the relationship didn't just apply to the submissive, but also to the dominant. To her it was a two way street. If you want your hard limits respected, then she wants you to respect her authority and control and also to respect her instructions and directions. She also was very clear that absolute obedience had nothing to do with being a doormat but had a proactive element. Your obedience to her was something which she not only demanded, but also what she relied upon. For example if she told you to clean a room then you were responsible for not just cleaning the room but also making sure that you knew how she wanted the room cleaning, what was important to her, and that you had everything necessary to be able to clean the room the way she wanted it. You also had to check that you had done the room properly before you reported back and said it was done. Obedience therefore isn't just about doing, but also about thinking and communication. It's also about being part of a team, of having your dominant's best interests at heart and striving to meet the needs of those interests. You can only do this through knowing your dominant, knowing what is important to them, knowing their likes and dislikes, preferences, and seeking to do whatever they require in such a way so that it's not dissimilar to what they would do if you weren't there.

stella41b -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 7:06:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b My concept of obedience. Two choices. 1. Obey. 2. Walk. If I'm told to do something - 1 response. Yes. It gets done. If I'm asked to do something 3 responses. (1) Yes. It gets done. (2). Yes but there's a problem you need to know about, e.g. difficulty or delay. (3) No it's not possible for me to do that. (This is a response only when it is clearly not possible for an instruction to be carried out). This distinction becomes a bit difficult to make with dominants (and there are a surprising number who do this) who like to frame their commands in terms of requests. ;) This distinction is only difficult from my perspective if you don't know your dominant, if you don't know what is important to them, and aren't able to work out what is imperative. Also please bear in mind that I was writing from a submissive perspective (my own). quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b My concept of obedience is absolute. There's no consideration of my feelings or emotions or thoughts and the above applies even if what I am required to do is stressful, difficult, dirty, shitty, boring, repetitive, menial, whether it arouses within me feelings of disgust, fear, whether it upsets me, causes me pain, discomfort, or anything else. ... This is how I was trained by my formative domme in Warsaw, Poland communicating only in the Polish language (her native language). There was no margin for error allowed for any shortcomings in comprehension, understanding or communication. How can one possibly be trained with this "one strike and you're out" policy in place? You're under training and 15 minutes into it the domme throws a hard ball or you screw up through a minor misunderstanding. Boom! End of training? So how do new submissives learn? Making mistakes is how most of us learn. They teach us so much. And pople new to submissiion do make mistakes, if not in atittude, then in understanding what a specific dominant wants or in an interpretation. Commands are not always clear and unambiguious. Attention wanders at at the damndest times when a specific detail of a complex order is being given, or attention is focused on the wrong aspects of the command. Etc. Surely you're not saying you made absolutely no mistakes and were perfectly obedient during your entire training period? In every other field that is difficult to master (so to speak), newcomers or apprentices to the field are given some leeway in the mistakes department. They are given very simple tasks at first, and not summarily dismissed if they get confused or mess up due to unfamiliarity with the processes and habitual practices. If they were there would be very few professionals or experts in any field. This wasn't necessary a 'one strike and you're out' policy. Let's not forget that we're not talking about a one-sided relationship here, because when a dominant takes on a submissive they also take on the responsibility that goes with it. Dominants also have to obey submissives and they also have to show just as much commitment to the relationship and dynamic as the submissive. Part of that responsibility is accepting a submissive together with their shortcomings, faults, failings, issues, problems, weaknesses and everything else which comes with it. This is where knowing each other properly comes into play. No dynamic is ever going to work successfully if the dominant doesn't have a good awareness of the submissive and where they are at at that particular moment in time and the same can be said of the submissive. You cannot assume control or dominate someone you don't know, just as you cannot submit, serve or obey someone you don't know. I was also writing about a concept, an attitude, and how I came to form both the concept and the attitude. This doesn't necessarily mean that it also followed through in practice. It didn't. Yes I did fuck up, make mistakes, I didn't always get it right, I misunderstood, sometimes I didn't have the necessary motivation, the right attitude, the right headspace and there were times when it didn't come together for reasons beyond my control. I was far from the perfect submissive then and I'm still quite distant from being one today. But this was also something my formative dominant always took into account and made allowances for. She herself had off days and wasn't perfect. Yes she was strict and demanding, but she was also kind and compassionate and infinitely patient. But she was the dominant, she had the control, and if something didn't turn out right or there was a problem it was she who made the decision over how to respond to that problem or failing. I spent five years with her. Her methods of training never changed. Yes she could swing a riding crop quite well and deliver it in such a way you would think she was using a cane, it hurt. But you know what the major element of her training was? She'd get me to make coffee, and we'd sit either side of her long coffee table drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, and talking as friends. And this was a major characteristic of our dynamic - friendship. She was the domme, she was in control, I was her submissive and in service to her, that line was never crossed, but we were both close friends and we both had each other's best interests at heart.

leadership527 -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 7:50:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b Obedience therefore isn't just about doing, but also about thinking and communication. It's also about being part of a team... Thank you for saying this Stella. As is always true in threads like this, they get spun into an adversarial relationship between the dom and sub and then, of course, it always looks so grim. Carol & I are two people participting on a team with the goal of "winning" at life. So far, that team seems to be doing pretty well. Carol obeys not because she must or else she'll lose her collar. She obeys because that is her role on the team and it's working for us as a team and her individually.

lally2 -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 8:04:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 Carol and I practice my own personal iterpretation of TPE. Within that construct, there is no "disobedience". There is only "obey" or "not mine". Frankly, I think that is true independent of whether she approves of the commands or not. Carol is a deeply monogamous woman, but if I commanded her to pleasure another person, I would expect her to do it. Failure would be the end of her slave collar. Such is the nature of "total" in my book. However, in my interpretation, the world of D/s is a lot less clear cut. There I can see negotiations, both large and small, occuring on a potentially frequent basis depending on what worked best for the couple. But as soon as boundaries are allowed at all, then they must be discussed and maintained. Leadership, with absolute respect for youre stance and please believe that i completely agree that without obedience, if a slave picks and chooses what they will and wont do then you do not have TPE, infact im not sure that youd have Ds either. a thought popped into my head over the highlighted sentance. and its just a thought, something to push out there and think about, possibly, but..., if the ultimate threat of disobedience is 'not mine' ie released, after one isolated case of disobedience or lets say unwillingness, because im sure Carol does not wish to disobey on any level then surely there is a case to be heard that a slave may be acting out of fear of release rather than a fear of dissappointing. i havent really formulated what im trying to say here, just, as i said, this kinda jumped out at me - for me the power of dissappointment has leverage, manipulation through fear of absolute loss would in my heart anyway, feel less positive. i hope you can fathom what im trying to say, im not sure i have explained this very well and im not in any way questioning youre methods whatsoever, its just a thought process.

leadership527 -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 8:45:43 AM)
quote: for me the power of dissappointment has leverage, manipulation through fear of absolute loss would in my heart anyway, feel less positive. I hear you lally2 and I fully understand where your coming from. Trust me on this, the reality of the situation isn't anywhere near as grim as it sounds. I woud have no use for Carol living in fear on a day-by-day basis. I just didn't qualify the statement this time. "Release" in this context, really means that Carol & I sit down and discuss what sort of relationship we would have moving forward. It is more of a dictionary correction than any change to reality. My definition of slave doesn't allow for disobedience. If she does disobey, she is therefor, not my slave anymore. She might well, however, be my submissive with exactly one known boundary. Above all else, she is still the woman I love and want to spend the rest of my life with. She knows this... that is more about me being pedantic than it is any shift in the reality on the ground. It's also worth pointing out that I allow a fair amount of discussion before the bottom line occurs. If Carol was unwilling to obey, she'd have her say and it would be carefully listened to and factored into my thinking. But if she's unwilling to follow my lead after I have dutifully thought out the implications of whatever she is tellling me, then there's a serious problem somewhere. She's also allowed to be unwilling during the task. I don't demand that she obey and love it.... just that she obeys. What you're really hearing is my general tendency to want to call a spade a spade. It's either total or its not. I have no quibbles with Carol being my sub, but then I don't want to be posting here about her being a slave -- that just reeks of posturng to me and I'll have none of it. I don't wish to get into a lot of the hair-spitting that happens here... a ton of "total all except for this laundry list of stuff" type discussions. So I opted to just take the words at face value. I like it that it's a fact-based statement to say, "I consider Carol my TPE slave because she has never disobeyed a direct command." It's kind of unequivocal and not subject to hair-splitting. There's another and way more important reason though that the bar is set where it is. By doing so, I neatly get us out of all manner of unpleasantness. With no disobedience, there is no punishment. It allows the two of us to operate smoothly as a team and not waste time on tangents to that goal. What I have done is what good leaders do everywhere, I have set my expectations very high and then smiled as Carol rose to meet them. Just last night I said to her, "I am so glad that you are you and I don't have to waste time as your leader getting you to follow. You just do which enables me to focus on more important goals like our Life 2.0 plan." It's also worth noting that setting the bar in such a black and white way serves to keep ME on my toes too. Let's assume that I don't want to lose her as my slave. That means that I damned well better give some thought to the commands that I give and, most importantly, the lead-in to the commands I expect to be difficult.

LadyPact -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 8:55:18 AM)
Forgive Me, folks. I'm catching up with these over My morning caffeine. quote: ORIGINAL: sravaka This is a beautiful encapsulation, Marie.... it really does come down to trust, on both sides. Sometimes obeying against your first impulse turns out to be glorious thing (or at least a happy/satisfied one)... but on rare occasions (i doubt LadyPact had these exceptions in mind, but still, it's true) it goes beyond simple disinclination to something potentially destructive. I have trouble sometimes knowing whether to obey first and explain later, or explain first and risk being seen as disobedient in such circumstances. This is just My personal opinion. Unless there is some type of urgency about the matter at hand, I'm going to want the explanation first. I don't consider Myself omnipotent. If My sub has misgivings about following a command and has information for Me as a reason for not doing so, I want to hear that out. It could be that the potential negative outweighs what I commanded in the first place. Of course, other people might see that differently.

lally2 -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 8:58:03 AM)
im sorry, i didnt mean for you to explain youre position, though i suppose my thought process did prompt that. so thank you for taking the time out to do that. i respect how youve reached the place you have, it all makes perfect sense. i have come across very black and white people where its all or absolutely nothing, the cut off is absolute and total and leaves little margin to be human at times. those sort of dynamics frighten the hell out of me! i wish you and carol well. lallyx

whiteslavebitch -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 8:59:35 AM)
I agree with you completely LP. If he orders, asks, etc. I do everything in my power to comply. I am hardwired for obedience from childhood. I feel really crappy emotionally if I don't obey. I even occasionally feel bad about some of my hard limits, and have to frequently examine them to determine if they are still hard limits. I don't like holding anything back from him.

leadership527 -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 9:10:55 AM)
chuckles No worries Lally. I actually took your thoughts as an opportunity to do so. God forbid some newcomer to these boards would read the high level statement I first made without understanding the real truth underneath it and then seek to emulate it. Every now and then it's worth it to me to try to shed light on the underlying dynamics. Sometimes I write stuff and it could easily be misconstrued as something awful by someone not following my other posts. Honestly, my real opinion is that if Carol & I were to even have the question of disobedence come up, then something is already tragically flawed at the core. We are a team, not adversaries. She wants to be a good follower and I want to be a good leader.

LadyPact -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 9:20:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Obey yes...but if you do something that is not enjoyed or respected often enough ...then you can expect to loose your submissive. Your job is to find things you can both enjoy or the submissive can at least respect. A D/s relationship has the same problems as any relationship and problems must be worked out to the agreement of both or the relationship will not last. Butch Actually, I don't see that as My job as a Dominant. Since we're talking about obedience here, what I'll say is that if it is My sub's job to obey, I would counter that by saying it is My job to wield the authority properly. From My perspective, there's quite a bit tied up in that and is probably best left for another thread. What you might be looking at that I could agree with would be compatibility. This is why I phrased the original the way I did. By saying if I have a submissive, I'm meaning it as an established D/s dynamic where compatibility has already been determined. I tend to use the 85% rule. Meaning a sub and Myself have to match up at a minimum of 85% of those things BDSM related. That's kinks, protocol, authority structure and so on. I may choose to dabble in that leftover 15%, excluding those things I named in the original, just every once in a while. When I do, clarification and additional information aside, I expect to be obeyed.

LadyPact -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 9:27:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s. I find myself less capable of maintaining a staunch declarative position with tasks when I encounter a temperamental attitude towards doing them. Realistically speaking, to say that I don't expect my s-type to necessarily like what she is being told to do is not also a carte blanche to display irreverent behavior while still doing it. Furthermore, any relationship encountering issues where there are temperamental reactions is one where (if the D-type is analytical enough of it) the possibility a burgeoning resentment becomes a concern. There is a distinctive difference between an s-type who obeys for the sake of obedience as an act (and does it to a decent degree in a begrudging manner) and an s-type who obeys because the concept of pleasing hir D-type is a prioritized motivating factor on its own. In the case of the latter, the desire to please/serve controls their demeanor and their inner appraisal of the task even if they find it uncomfortable or displeasing. A very good contribution with the focus on the word pleasing. My sub may not like the task I've given him to do, but he should like the fact that whatever I have him doing is making Me happy. Even if it is just the idea that his obedience is the result that I want.

daddysprop247 -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 9:42:46 AM)
obedience is absolutely necessary in this house. the concept of negotiating, of testing, of pushing back and forth just has never made sense to me, but then i have been a slave for 9 years and nothing else, i have never lived within any other lifestyle dynamic. however, the policy of "obey or walk" does not exist here. that would place the decision and therefore the power whether or not to stay in this relationship in my hands, where it absolutely does not belong. still, i strive daily to always be obedient and mindful and pleasing, that is my job after all and the commitment that i have made. only once have i willfully disobeyed my Master, and that was because obeying him at that moment would have required lying, something else which is not permitted and which i just plain would not wish to do to him. so i consciously disobeyed him, and immediately suffered the (quite physical, quite brutal) consequences for it. and yes, he did demand an explanation for my disobedience and completely understood why i could not obey...that did not change the fact that i did indeed disobey and needed severe punishment. and hopefully, that is the last time i will ever need to be punished for disobedience. i am punished for many other things, for mistakes and slip-ups and forgetfulness and many such everyday things. but i live to obey him...to disobey would make it all rather pointless.

beargonewild -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 9:46:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s. I find myself less capable of maintaining a staunch declarative position with tasks when I encounter a temperamental attitude towards doing them. Realistically speaking, to say that I don't expect my s-type to necessarily like what she is being told to do is not also a carte blanche to display irreverent behavior while still doing it. Furthermore, any relationship encountering issues where there are temperamental reactions is one where (if the D-type is analytical enough of it) the possibility a burgeoning resentment becomes a concern. There is a distinctive difference between an s-type who obeys for the sake of obedience as an act (and does it to a decent degree in a begrudging manner) and an s-type who obeys because the concept of pleasing hir D-type is a prioritized motivating factor on its own. In the case of the latter, the desire to please/serve controls their demeanor and their inner appraisal of the task even if they find it uncomfortable or displeasing. A very good contribution with the focus on the word pleasing. My sub may not like the task I've given him to do, but he should like the fact that whatever I have him doing is making Me happy. Even if it is just the idea that his obedience is the result that I want. It seems that after rereading the entire thread and carefully reading the posts since my last that it seems I managed to take a few concepts out of context .....a case of I didn't see the forest for the trees!

LadyPact -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 9:56:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild Obedience should be one of the cornerstones to a D/s based relationship, yet the one issue which needs to be seriously consider is the human factor. It isn't cut and dried where because a submissive doesn't obey which causes their dom kicks them out on the curb so to speak for that action. The submissives are not perfect and yes, the idiosyncrasy of human nature will have then not obeying on occasion and the same also applies to the dominant person. This is different to a sub who chronically disobeys and isn't taking responsibility for their part in that relationship. Good morning My dear bear. Some things are kick to the curb offenses. I would see infidelity as one of those. For a poly person, I'm rather strict about those that I'm fluid bonded with. When I'm referring to obedience, I'm not excluding the human factor. I'm also not excluding circumstance. If My sub is expected to kneel at the door when I come home, but he's making dinner at the time and something is boiling over, of course I expect him to attend to that. Will I step inside and wait for him to present himself? You bet. On the human factor, My sub absolutely is a person. With that, I have to understand that there will be times that he might forget something or he's just not physically capable of doing something. There's a difference between such reasons as those and he just didn't want to pick up the dry cleaning, for example. The human factor is one thing, but the other isn't.

leadership527 -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 9:57:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 but i live to obey him...to disobey would make it all rather pointless. This statement really gets to the heart of my position also. I put a lot of effort into being a good master for Carol. I expect her to not "make it all rather pointless" as you so eloquently put it. The "obey or walk" choice comes in only because our relationship has more flexibility in it than yours. She could go back to being my vanilla wife or maybe what I'd call a "sub" and I'd be fine with that. Accordingly, I'm even less fine with her playing games with me since she has other viable choices. In my head, I hear myself saying, "Look, if you don't want to be my slave, just say so and we'll do something else that'll make us happy."

LadyPact -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 9:58:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b My concept of obedience. Two choices. 1. Obey. 2. Walk. If I'm told to do something - 1 response. Yes. It gets done. If I'm asked to do something 3 responses. (1) Yes. It gets done. (2). Yes but there's a problem you need to know about, e.g. difficulty or delay. (3) No it's not possible for me to do that. (This is a response only when it is clearly not possible for an instruction to be carried out). If the problem in (2) is acknowledged but no change to the instruction then my response becomes (1). My concept of obedience is absolute. There's no consideration of my feelings or emotions or thoughts and the above applies even if what I am required to do is stressful, difficult, dirty, shitty, boring, repetitive, menial, whether it arouses within me feelings of disgust, fear, whether it upsets me, causes me pain, discomfort, or anything else. There's also no hesitation, no slacking, no question, no discussion, no negotiation, no judgment, no passive aggressive behaviour, no refusal, no half-hearted attempts, no mistakes, no errors, no forgetting. Before the word 'done' or 'complete' was applied to whatever I did after being told or asked had to meet the standard of (1) free from error, mistake or blemish (2) had to be complete according to the dominant's perception of complete (3) not requiring any explanation or excuse as to why it wasn't completed as expected. This is how I was trained by my formative domme in Warsaw, Poland communicating only in the Polish language (her native language). There was no margin for error allowed for any shortcomings in comprehension, understanding or communication. This is my concept and my standard as a submissive. Stella, this was beautifully written. Thank you.

LadyPact -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 10:05:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: abuddingdom Amen, LadyPact. To each and every word of your OP...... I'm blessed with an obedient submissive. She didn't obey 100% in our earlier days. There were some growing pains , to be sure, but since committing to me she's been consistently and completely obedient. It's a cornerstone of our relationship and I dont see how a successful D/s relationship could even survive for any length of time, much less flourish, without obedience asa cornerstone - expected by one & given willingly and completely by the other (other than negotiated limits, unsafe or immoral orders, etc). I was proud a couple weeks ago when we were out with a Domme we both respect(and, just as importantly, like)who noted to me, privately when I sent my pretty one on an errand, how obedient she is. I replied - sincerely - that I'm not only a fortunate but a proud Sir, adding that she'll do " almost anything I tell her to do". My pretty one occasionally asks for clarification and even now and then disagrees with me, but I honestly cant recall the last time she didnt obey me......... I have to admit, it's very cool when these kinds of things happen in life.

LadyPact -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 10:26:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn What often causes me to have to think twice is when someone says she's looking for someone who obeys all times, but then in the same thread someone will mention something like, "if he/she does not obey, that's the end of the relationship for me" and that really causes me to be really concerned. You see, I'm very submissive, and I do everything I can think of to always make sure I'm doing what my mistress (when I'm owned by one) desires. However, there are times when a relationship can get so cozy between two people that every now and then you have to be reminded that one person does make the final decisions, and sometimes all the decisions (depending upon the relationship). I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone write about how she or he might end a relationship based on the lack of obeying. I remember many situations where a former mistress and I were just having a fun day, and a disagreement came up that comes up in normal conversations, and it actually took a reminder of one's place for me to realize, whoops, went too far, and to reel it back in again. That's one thing I've always found fascinating about collarme; there are way too many ultimatum conversations that equate to "I'm dumping him/her if he/she does....". I think I covered some of this when I brought up the topic of infidelity in replying to bear. There are some things in life that are one strike and you're out offenses as far as being in My life. However, you do bring up an important point. As a Dominant, I shouldn't have an issue with reeling a sub back in. If I can't say that something is My final decision or that something isn't a request, it's a command, that's a failure of My own.

daddysprop247 -> RE: Obey (9/1/2009 10:34:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 but i live to obey him...to disobey would make it all rather pointless. This statement really gets to the heart of my position also. I put a lot of effort into being a good master for Carol. I expect her to not "make it all rather pointless" as you so eloquently put it. The "obey or walk" choice comes in only because our relationship has more flexibility in it than yours. She could go back to being my vanilla wife or maybe what I'd call a "sub" and I'd be fine with that. Accordingly, I'm even less fine with her playing games with me since she has other viable choices. In my head, I hear myself saying, "Look, if you don't want to be my slave, just say so and we'll do something else that'll make us happy." Leadership, thanks for understanding. for the most part, your position is clear to me as well...carol must always obey you in order for you to consider her to be your slave, otherwise she is your submissive wife or something else, but not property. and that leads to my question for you...in your personal view, does disobedience negate slavery? in other words, if a slave makes the choice to disobey their Master, whatever the reason, are they in some way expressing that they do not wish to truly be a slave/give up complete control?

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625