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RE: Testing Task... - 9/1/2009 9:00:43 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
I do believe especially in this thread the term TEST needs to be qualified as to how it is being used.

An astute statement I think. For instance, I would have no compunctions about setting Carol to a task that her skills were uncertain in with the intent of seeing if I needed to train her myself or send her off to school. Testing her love, submission, commitment, et.al., however is pointless within our dynamic. And, once again, my absolute-ism stand on limits and obedience simplifies matters greatly. I don't have to test her limits since I don't acknowlege that there are any. It's also worth remembering that my household is not fluid and we've been together for a long time now. Honestly, I really ought to know her pretty well by know *chuckles*

It is my suspicion, though, that a lot of what passes for "testing" isn't really testing at all, it's just a symptom of the dominant's lack of confidence in himself.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 21

RE: Testing Task... - 9/1/2009 9:04:37 AM

Jadiken

Posts: 60
Joined: 7/4/2009
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Alright Leader, you are going to have to explain that last statement for me... how could testing ones sub be a symptom of a lack of confidence in oneself? I can understand a Dominants desire to figure out how hard and how far a sub will go to please them, to see the inginuity (i know my spelling sucks and i cant use spell check on this thing) and the creativeness that a sub would have in order to complete a task...

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 22

RE: Testing Task... - 9/1/2009 9:19:03 AM

leadership527

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OK Jade.. I'll give it a go.

Consider a dominant who is totally secure in both himself and his position within the relationship. Given that he is totally secure, then there's nothing that needs to be tested, right? I don't test Carol because I already know she will obey. So what, exactly, would I test?

Now, the first part of that, "secure within himself" is clearly self-driven. But what about the second part, "secure within the relationship"? My thought is that this also is self-driven. Fundamentally, since I believe that responsibility and authority go hand in hand, I also believe that the success of the relationship is MY responsibility. So if I'm questioning my position in the relationship, then what I am really questioning is my own abilities as a leader. Given that I have boundless arrogance around my leadership ablities, I also see no need to test that.

So really, when you get down to it, I refuse to make Carol miserable (because such tests really need to be in order to show anything) just to salve my own insecurities about my dominance. If I can't claim the position in my own head, I have no business asking anyone else to cede it to me.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Jadiken)

Post #: 23

RE: Testing Task... - 9/1/2009 9:35:19 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jadiken

Tops, have you ever given your bottom a task that you know could NOT be completed, not to see them fail, but to see how hard they would try to please you and complete the task. To see how long it takes them to give into you and beg for forgivenes for not being able to comeplete said task? I know there are many ways to see how much a sub/slave will submit to you, but have you ever wanted to see how hard they will try to do exactly as you say?

Thanks,
Jade

no i can't say i've experienced that. however, my mentor has asked things of me that she was well aware that i would say no to if my countenance wasn't in deference to her. they were not outright directives but quiet suggestions where her preference was understood. i was free to choose the course of action i would take. i believe it was a good exercise and it reminded me of the necessity of putting things aside for a greater whole.

as for the second part of your question. i don't behave that way. i have an innate capacity to accept ownership for my failings. i recognize i will not get it right all the time and believe it is important to admit when i'm wrong. it is up to the individual to determine if this warrants corrective action. overall the emotional aftermath of failing to comply has a huge impact on me mentally and rarely warrants punishment. my need to please and to be obedient is internally inspired and in direct correlation to my desire to serve the one i'm with.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Jadiken)

Post #: 24

RE: Testing Task... - 9/1/2009 11:03:21 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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It would be a good way to let her know you aren't trustworthy. If I try and beat myself up, then once he admits to knowingly setting me up to fail I will lose a lot of respect for him. If I know from the get go that I can't do it, then I would refuse.

Doing stuff like this would have me judging him to be someone not worth submitting to. I know my own value, if he doesn't and enjoys having me waste time pointlessly then we aren't compatible. I need to trust his judgment, deliberately hurting me does not demonstrate good judgment.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 25

RE: Testing Task... - 9/1/2009 11:18:27 AM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Given that I have boundless arrogance around my leadership ablities, I also see no need to test that.

20 points.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 26

RE: Testing Task... - 9/1/2009 11:52:46 AM

Jadiken

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Joined: 7/4/2009
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Leader, I see your point, but you also know Carol inside and out... In terms of a new realtionship you have to start some where learning about the other person you are with. Regardless of it being bdsm or D/s or vanilla or whatever... So I dont necessarily see it as an insecurity to test someone with something simply so you can see how they react and respond to such a situation. Maybe its not a test that he set up simply for me to fail, but a test in which at the end of a tunnel all i can see is a big flashing sign that says "get real" and therefore I am trying to make an excuse about why I feel I have been given such a hard task to complete... Either way, I will do what I can to get it done, whether I fail or not is something that I will handle in the end...

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 27

RE: Testing Task... - 9/1/2009 2:09:21 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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No, I never have and I doubt it will ever be necessary. As I see it, there are enough challenges in life that makes the idea of creating one unnecessary.

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Jadiken)

Post #: 28

RE: Testing Task... - 9/1/2009 2:14:34 PM

leadership527

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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lolol NZ.... 20 points for unbounded arroganced.

quote:

Jade responded:
Leader, I see your point, but you also know Carol inside and out... In terms of a new realtionship you have to start some where learning about the other person you are with. Regardless of it being bdsm or D/s or vanilla or whatever... So I dont necessarily see it as an insecurity to test someone with something simply so you can see how they react and respond to such a situation. Maybe its not a test that he set up simply for me to fail, but a test in which at the end of a tunnel all i can see is a big flashing sign that says "get real" and therefore I am trying to make an excuse about why I feel I have been given such a hard task to complete... Either way, I will do what I can to get it done, whether I fail or not is something that I will handle in the end...

OK, possibly a terminology question... or simply a tactics question. In the beginning, I certainly extended my authority over Carol one step at a time. I didn't do so by testing her though. I simply asked her, "Is it OK for me to control you in new area X?" She'd think about it. We'd talk about it. She'd render a decision. That process, I suspect, served the same purpose as the sort of testing you're talking about. Typical of me though, I prefer to handle things head on. If I have a question, I ask. Nor is that exchange an assault to any preconceived notion I have that she has a choice in the matter. I've never been chasing some book definition or, even worse, fantasy definition of Master/slave. At this point in our relationship, I considered us D/s with the stated intent of becoming M/s.

At some point, it just got to the place where it wasn't worth asking any more so I stopped. The default answer was safely assumed to be yes. Now, the only times we have these discussions are when I'm broaching some topic that's going to be really difficult for her. But it's still "testing" if you will...

Me: So do you sleep with whoever I want to?
Her: *deer in the headlights look*
Us: much conversation ensues

I just don't really think of it as "testing". I think of that as proper leadership. I could, I suppose, simply surprise her with the command to blow some friend who's visiting over at our house. And were I to do such a thing, I would get exactly what I'd deserve. So back to the point of "testing" and weak domly egos... I have enough faith in my leadership abilities that I believe I can take Carol anywhere that I would actually want to go. Hence, no testing is required.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 9/1/2009 2:18:23 PM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 29

RE: Testing Task... - 9/1/2009 5:09:47 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jadiken

Leader, I see your point, but you also know Carol inside and out... In terms of a new realtionship you have to start some where learning about the other person you are with.

Wow. If I were in a new relationship with an s type, my focus would be on proving to her that I can be trusted with the power she's giving me.

Look at it this way - if I have a brand new car, my emphasis will be on how to drive it properly, not to see how quickly it will decelerate when I slam on the brakes.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Jadiken)

Post #: 30

RE: Testing Task... - 9/1/2009 6:39:00 PM

Andalusite

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Joined: 1/25/2009
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I wouldn't have a problem with it - similar situations happen at work all the time! I'd ask for guidance about priority if there were multiple items, or if it was feasible to break it up into different portions. Generally speaking, my Master is happy with me when I try my best, and doesn't make me feel like I "failed" if I'm genuinely unable to do it completely. We take that as the baseline, and I keep trying.

As soon as it became obvious that I wouldn't be able to complete the entire thing, I'd ask for his guidance on how to make it more efficient, if we could extend the deadline, if I can ask for help with it (from him or someone else), or how he wants me to handle it. Dissolving in tears over it seems a little silly, especially if it was something fairly minor! It wouldn't occur to me to view it as a "test," just that he can't necessarily know exactly how long it will take me to accomplish something, if I hadn't done it before. Even if he did tell me afterward that it was a "test," I'd probably giggle and ask what my grade was, or ask if he learned what he set out to from it, or some such.

DarkSteven, my Master has a similar general view to yours, although I don't think it applies to this specific scenario. That's why I've been able to trust him so quickly! He's very encouraging and inspires me to want to do *more* for him, rather than making me fearful that I'll accidentally say or do the wrong thing. We're still pretty new to each other - I've been his slave for 3 months, and we dated and talked for 2 months before that.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 9/1/2009 6:42:11 PM >

(in reply to Jadiken)

Post #: 31

RE: Testing Task... - 9/2/2009 12:51:39 PM

yummee

Posts: 111
Joined: 5/31/2009
Status: offline

This has never been a big deal for me in my thinking. I've failed at more than a few things over the years, some of which I doubt I could have succeeded at no matter the tools available to me. It doesn't shatter me at all, or shake our foundation, or destroy trust, or any of that. Its not really even a pothole on our road. I try to reach whatever goal or aim he has given me. Sometimes, admittedly, I try harder than others. If I am assigned task X, I just work towards that goal. I don't worry myself with the why's, although I generally have a good idea of the why's. If it is an impossible task or a very unlikely one, I still work on task X. Maybe it amuses him, maybe it is a test, maybe he really thinks I can do it, maybe I really can, who knows. If I fail at task X, I fail at it. Now we know for sure that, in fact, I cannot spin straw into gold. I don't beat myself up over my utter lack of skill in spinning gold. The only time I feel bad about a failure is if I know I could have succeeded but failed due to lack of effort or desire. Otherwise, I just let it go (so long as he lets it go as well, of course). He doesn't berate me or beat my ass over failures on my part, I don't hold grudges and form resentments over failures on his part.

Regarding testing in general, I have mixed thoughts. I do see that ideally no testing should be necessary and it can be a red flag, I also see plenty of circumstances where *I* would accept being tested (with or without my knowledge at the time) without feeling injured in any way. It just doesn't raise my hackles much.

Respectfully,

amy

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 32

RE: Testing Task... - 9/2/2009 12:57:56 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jadiken

I apologize if this kind of question is elsewhere and I havent found it, but this is a question for all Dom/mes or even subs/slaves if they know of this happening...

Tops, have you ever given your bottom a task that you know could NOT be completed, not to see them fail, but to see how hard they would try to please you and complete the task. To see how long it takes them to give into you and beg for forgivenes for not being able to comeplete said task? I know there are many ways to see how much a sub/slave will submit to you, but have you ever wanted to see how hard they will try to do exactly as you say?

Thanks,
Jade

No. And never will.

There are plenty of REAL things for a girl to be doing.

(in reply to Jadiken)

Post #: 33

RE: Testing Task... - 9/2/2009 3:20:35 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jadiken

Focus, I like your way of thinking, that makes sence to me... and it makes my situation make more sence... unfortunatly I dont known if that is what He is doing or not but it sounds like something He would do. And I am definitely the type of person to get hung up on fear and failure and let it tear me up from the inside out... Always have regardless of my relationships.

Lol, looking at many of the responses here (some practically indignant), it would seem I'm about the only Dom/me that's ever encountered a sub who has an unrealistic, even obsessive, fear of failure - and that you're about the only sub (here) with such a fear....

The "setting the sub up to fail" theme emanating from this thread seems a bit over the top, too, for the regularity it likely does happen. To me it's a bit simplistic and like saying a sub who hesitates to obey is topping from the bottom or (*gasp*), isn't submissive at all.

But I will agree with such a notion if the Dom/me is proactively setting impossible tasks as some sort of power trip as opposed to doing it *reactively* to a sub's obsession with not failing....

Focus.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Jadiken)

Post #: 34

RE: Testing Task... - 9/2/2009 3:36:50 PM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Test:

A proton approaches a long line of positive charge so that with it's initial trajectory it would intersect the line. The line has a uniform charge density of 5 nanoC/m. If the proton starts off with velocity 300 km/s a distance 1 km from the line charge, what is the distance of closest approach?
Mass of proton = 1.67E-27 kg
K = 8.99E9 Nmm/CC

Hint: Find the field and potential that affect the proton.

0.5M ?

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 9/2/2009 3:38:14 PM >

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Post #: 35

RE: Testing Task... - 9/2/2009 4:14:12 PM

Viridana

Posts: 754
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FR

Yeah, I could see myself setting up or performing an impossible task. It has a nice sadistical mindfuck ring to it, but it would of course only be in a playful sense where both of us would find ourselves laughing about it when (not) finished.

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 36

RE: Testing Task... - 9/2/2009 4:14:57 PM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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I have to answer yes.
I have a phobia that is frightening to me. It used to be terrifying but its only frightening now and the fear is getting less with time.
Stephen gave me an impossible task and that was to face my phobia. He was with me, he helped me and he picked me up each time I failed. I never once felt disappointed or that I had disappointed him. I felt a great sense of relief that he was taking this seriously and he was willing to give me so much help and encouragement.
From the outset he knew that I would fail this but he also knew that I needed to face this fear and that it would in the long run help me because every day it has become less of a challenge. Today I find it frightening but tomorrow it may just make me nervous.

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos

Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 37

RE: Testing Task... - 9/2/2009 8:18:18 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

FR

Impossibilium nulla obligatio est
Nobody has any obligation to the impossible. (Corpus Iuris Civilis)

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 38

RE: Testing Task... - 9/2/2009 8:44:13 PM

Jadiken

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Joined: 7/4/2009
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IronBear, that would make a wonderful tattoo... but on a more serious note, makes total sense... But we can still try right? Its like when someone tells you that its impossible for you to lick your own elbow, you still try to...

Focus, I totally understand, sometimes the problem with forums and typing you cant always get your tone of voice across, and its a lot harder to "argue" your point. But yes, I have an absolute fear of failing, regardless of the situation, I know I wont always succeed but thats not to say it doesnt effect me afterward. But I am glad you understand where I am coming from. And I totally agree with the last statement, and if it were the case that it was being done simply as a power trip I cant say I would continue the relationship.

Jazz, that is a truely motivating story, and I cant say that you fail at it, you just take your time at a final product with some trips along the way, but you havent failed yet because you are making progress...

As for driving a car... well I drive it like I stole it... why buy something that I couldnt enjoy in the ways that I want to enjoy it... Same goes for haveing a Master or submissive... Why be with them if you cant enjoy them and vice versa?

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 39

RE: Testing Task... - 9/3/2009 5:56:09 PM

kallisto

Posts: 1185
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jadiken

Why be with them if you cant enjoy them and vice versa?

Just my "sub" opinion .. I think that kind of sums it up for me. If my Dom is continually "testing" me or setting me up for failure, then I'm not going to enjoy it and I will forever be questioning why he's with me and why I'm with him. Testing me to see if I put 100% into the task would make me believe he thinks I only do things half-assed. That's not me and if he's not seeing that, then something is wrong. Setting me up for failure? Why? It's something that that isn't for me. Testing my submission, my devotion, my love for him? Why is he insecure with me and our relationship? There again, I would feel that something is wrong with our relationship.

Encouraging me, guiding me or directing me to do things or teaching me to do things..whether I succeed or fail is entirely different.

(in reply to Jadiken)

Post #: 40

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