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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/26/2006 5:13:41 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

I would like to ask the community at large what thier opinions are concerning a Masters/mistress mannerism or protocol to a slave or sub when they fulfill their tasks? For an example if a drink is delivered to the Master/Mistress does he/she acknowledge the act in any way? I am asking about the normal everyday items, that most of our culture calls manners.
Dragon

As a slave i have to say that the day to day display of manners is a good thing both ways.My Master(ScooterTrash) and my Mistress(ShiftedJewel) are invariably polite.They will say something like"will you bring me a fresh soda".When i do they normally say thank you or if busy nod at least.Do not get me wrong,i know this means now.But the courtesy is appreciated both ways.I think if a Dom/Domme has to be constantly demanding it is displaying deep seated insecurities within themselves.If a slave needs that constant display of arrogance they do not think much of themselves or have very little sense of self worth.Acting civil is a good thing.Manners should be expected no matter what the situation.

In response to jamesthehumanrug

I'd have copied your post to quote but your writing style leaves much to be desired.Try leaving out the excess puntuation,you would be much easier to understand.


You stated absolutely not.Why?No i really do not expect constant praise.But a simply acknowledgement is common courtesy.It does not interfere with discipline,rather it enhances it.It lets me know they are satisfied with me and do not feel the need to be harsh.They both know i will hurry to fufill their request immediatly.The simply thank you lets me know they are pleased.Personally if they acted in the manner you are describing i would think i was doing something wrong.I would spend hours in confusion mentally beating myself up trying to figure out why they were unhappy with me.

As to thanking a waiter,bartender,farmer,etc,yes you should always thank someone providing a servive.If a waitress pours you more coffe most people say thank you.If i stop at a farm stand where i like the fruit,i always tell the farmer you grow the best whatever.People like being acknowledged for their efforts.Doing so encourages them to continue and improve the services they provide.
To put it more simply(please,no one be offended by this description), if you are training your dog to fetch,when he brings back the ball you say good boy.This reinforces pleasing you is a positive experience.If you beat your dog for returning the ball pretty soon he'll stop doing so.Or will do so cringing and out of fear.

Personally i serve my Master and Mistress out of love.Simply for the joy it gives me.They want to see me happy,smiling content.This this tells them they are doing their job as owners well.Who wants to be served by a sourpuss or a scared cringing slave? D/s is about being happy for all involved.Just my opinion.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Dragonzaymaster)
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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/26/2006 5:33:12 AM   
LadiesBladewing


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If I am very busy, I may not even -notice- a drink placed at my hand, or a sandwich or meal left at my elbow, though I will -certainly- notice if my cup is empty when I reach for a drink.

I write, both fiction and non-fiction. When I'm working on a fiction piece, I may be quite caught up in what I am doing, and the rest of the world fades away. At this time, a servant would need to be aware, and be able to work on his or her own to make sure that I have food and drink and that he or she is as unobtrusive as possible, so as not to impede the flow of my work.

In the same way, SilverRose must concentrate on her studies when she is studying. Distractions make it difficult to get back into the complex flow of studies such as anatomy and physiology and microbiology. She might appreciate that her cup of tea was refilled, but if she takes time to acknowledge it then, she'll lose her flow.

That being said, when I am not preoccupied with something, I will often both acknowledge and give some little token of appreciation (a pat, kiss, smack on the butt) for things like my drink being brought, etc. However, these, to me, are a bonus. I tend to look for servants who are able to self-validate their service, since they will -not- always be able to depend on me to validate that they are good, worthy servants for them -- or, if I -were- to stop to do so, it would impede the work that -I- need to be doing. I have worked with some servants who -did- need that constant validation. I didn't get as much of -my- work done, leaving me behind and cranky, because I had to stop for every little thing to either redirect at the end of each and every completed task, or give praise for each little thing that was done. If I have to do that, I might as well stop to do the task myself.

Lady Zephyr

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(in reply to Dragonzaymaster)
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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/26/2006 7:31:24 AM   
aurora31


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Joined: 8/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slo18

not sure what is proper but I know that haveing my actions accknowledged makes me want to please more. I dont expect it and its a plesant surprise when it is given



I agree with 100% while it would not be expected...aknowledegement for a job well done lets me know that I have pleased and makes me want to try that much harder.

aurora

(in reply to slo18)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/26/2006 8:29:40 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Dependso n what you want.

I think it's just natural to say please and thank you/ I'd have to work very hard NOT to do that- it's almost instinctual. And I AM thankful when one of my boys does a good service for me, why shouldn't I express it?

That being said, invisible service has its merits as well. Whether you choose to do a nod, a hand wave, or nothing at all, as long as the other person accepts it, then have at it.

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(in reply to Dragonzaymaster)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/26/2006 8:42:06 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

I would like to ask the community at large what thier opinions are concerning a Masters/mistress mannerism or protocol to a slave or sub when they fulfill their tasks? For an example if a drink is delivered to the Master/Mistress does he/she acknowledge the act in any way? I am asking about the normal everyday items, that most of our culture calls manners.
Dragon

As a slave i have to say that the day to day display of manners is a good thing both ways.My Master(ScooterTrash) and my Mistress(ShiftedJewel) are invariably polite.They will say something like"will you bring me a fresh soda".When i do they normally say thank you or if busy nod at least.Do not get me wrong,i know this means now.But the courtesy is appreciated both ways.I think if a Dom/Domme has to be constantly demanding it is displaying deep seated insecurities within themselves.If a slave needs that constant display of arrogance they do not think much of themselves or have very little sense of self worth.Acting civil is a good thing.Manners should be expected no matter what the situation.

In response to jamesthehumanrug

I'd have copied your post to quote but your writing style leaves much to be desired.Try leaving out the excess punctuation,you would be much easier to understand.


You stated absolutely not.Why?No i really do not expect constant praise.But a simply acknowledgement is common courtesy.It does not interfere with discipline,rather it enhances it.It lets me know they are satisfied with me and do not feel the need to be harsh.They both know i will hurry to fufill their request immediatly.The simply thank you lets me know they are pleased.Personally if they acted in the manner you are describing i would think i was doing something wrong.I would spend hours in confusion mentally beating myself up trying to figure out why they were unhappy with me.

As to thanking a waiter,bartender,farmer,etc,yes you should always thank someone providing a servive.If a waitress pours you more coffe most people say thank you.If i stop at a farm stand where i like the fruit,i always tell the farmer you grow the best whatever.People like being acknowledged for their efforts.Doing so encourages them to continue and improve the services they provide.
To put it more simply(please,no one be offended by this description), if you are training your dog to fetch,when he brings back the ball you say good boy.This reinforces pleasing you is a positive experience.If you beat your dog for returning the ball pretty soon he'll stop doing so.Or will do so cringing and out of fear.

Personally i serve my Master and Mistress out of love.Simply for the joy it gives me.They want to see me happy,smiling content.This this tells them they are doing their job as owners well.Who wants to be served by a sourpuss or a scared cringing slave? D/s is about being happy for all involved.Just my opinion.



_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/26/2006 9:03:11 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

CERTAINLY YOU DONT BRAKE CONCENTRATION,OR COMPANY,if a waiter comes ,to YOUR table(AND YOURE SO LUCKY?) and, serves ;
you are talking!YOU ARE ,WITH SOMEONE! A PERSON ;PEOPLE! ,NOT A PLEBIAN SLAVE-SUB....
;you don't stop,to say
"THANKYOU"(you dont include the help,unless you wanna remember it with the meal?!)


James, interesting view.

Dragonzaymaster, yes I do say thank you to pup most times. Other times I will smile at him or give him a squeeze. I even say please to him when I ask him to get me more coffee. But then I am polite that way.


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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/26/2006 9:36:24 AM   
Mercnbeth


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The more you have the think about something, the more "un-natural" the act, gesture, or words, the more indication you have that you are doing something incongruous with your nature. Try as you might, you can't keep your eyes open during a sneeze, try as you might you can't go all day without blinking your eyes. If some protocol calls for Doms or Masters not to thank their slaves, or acknowledge their service I guess I'll have to turn in my "Master" card.

Outside forces require behavior. Work at certain places, you must say things you don't want to. Whether it's; "Do you want fries with that?" or "Thank you for shopping at WalMart!"; those words are hollow. But appreciating my slaves service? Those words always have meaning and purpose. If not how can my words of displeasure or disappointment have any contrasting meaning and purpose? Life forces you into behavior not natural. Your decisions regarding behavior concerning your "lifestyle", if nothing else, should be natural.

Domination and submission is not determined by the strict adherence to protocols alone. At least not in a scenario where the parties are living together maintaining a M/s relationship. Confidence is more critical than protocol because often practicality and necessity conflicts with protocol. If beth is out of the house and I'm thirsty, do I get myself a drink or stay thirsty until she comes back? Confidence is knowing your role, confidence in self. If your "self" is saying "thank-you" you can still be a Master. Picking up and put away toys after play, opening doors, asking if your submissive wants a drink while going to get one for yourself, putting your own glass in the dishwasher, taking out the garbage; don't get you kicked out of the Master's Club either. At least in my local club chapter with a membership of one.

Tying this into the OP's question; it would be more difficult for me to NOT say thank you, to not open doors. Once of the big benefits of being a Master is eliminating effort from your life. My training of beth is directed to that goal. Not thanking her for her "efforts" is contrary to that objective. Only our opinion based upon our experiences, and our goals.

(in reply to Dragonzaymaster)
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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/26/2006 9:54:34 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

The more you have the think about something


Thinking comes about when intuition is lost. I agree wholeheartedly with your post.

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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/26/2006 10:58:34 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

If I am very busy, I may not even -notice- a drink placed at my hand, or a sandwich or meal left at my elbow, though I will -certainly- notice if my cup is empty when I reach for a drink.

I write, both fiction and non-fiction. When I'm working on a fiction piece, I may be quite caught up in what I am doing, and the rest of the world fades away. At this time, a servant would need to be aware, and be able to work on his or her own to make sure that I have food and drink and that he or she is as unobtrusive as possible, so as not to impede the flow of my work.

In the same way, SilverRose must concentrate on her studies when she is studying. Distractions make it difficult to get back into the complex flow of studies such as anatomy and physiology and microbiology. She might appreciate that her cup of tea was refilled, but if she takes time to acknowledge it then, she'll lose her flow.

That being said, when I am not preoccupied with something, I will often both acknowledge and give some little token of appreciation (a pat, kiss, smack on the butt) for things like my drink being brought, etc. However, these, to me, are a bonus. I tend to look for servants who are able to self-validate their service, since they will -not- always be able to depend on me to validate that they are good, worthy servants for them -- or, if I -were- to stop to do so, it would impede the work that -I- need to be doing. I have worked with some servants who -did- need that constant validation. I didn't get as much of -my- work done, leaving me behind and cranky, because I had to stop for every little thing to either redirect at the end of each and every completed task, or give praise for each little thing that was done. If I have to do that, I might as well stop to do the task myself.

Lady Zephyr


Master is very much this way. He writes editorials in addition to his actual careers (He has two), in addition to his hobbies and diversions. He is one busy man. Often when we are together i will see his drink is empty and refill it. i will bring his lunch. i will massage his feet. i will scoot under the table and suck him....Sometimes he likes when i just pose in the background (human art, he calls it). Does he say thank you for each act? No, he continues his focus on his work. If i felt i was distracting him in any way, i would not feel i was doing my job well. i LOVE being in the background, taking care of his needs or knowing i am pleasing him...i don't do it for praise, i do it because i love when he is happy and satisfied. Usually if my head is in his lap, he will pat it, or muss up my hair. If i am serving him food/drink...he continues his work. Later i might find him glancing over at me appreciatively. Usually such a glance is followed by, "you're a good girl, 'pet name here' " i'm on a cloud after that.

To me, that is much more special than if he were to say "thank you" out of habit only, every time i did something. Master is not frequent with his compliments or sentimental expressions, so when he does...they are SO authentic and meaningful, and my heart sings. :)




(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/26/2006 11:44:16 AM   
krikket


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From: Washington, DC Metro Area
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Speaking from my pov, sometimes it was really nice to know that something i'd done was noticed and appreciated, and other times i got a kick (no pun intended..lol) out of quietly going about my day, so that his life better ran smoother. i knew at some point, sometimes when least expected, that my service would be rewarded with a smile and a "good girl" or "mine". i lived for those comments, they completed me and helped keep me focused in a way that i truly can't describe.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

A note to remember: People who are discourteous, inhospitable, insecure, rude, pushy, arrogant or nasty are playing power games in real life are usually insecure and possibly emotionally unstable, and more likely to behave abusively than responsibly if given the power to do so. Acting like a rude SOB isn't proof of dominance; it's proof that you have no manners and you are socially stunted.


quote:

ORIGINAL: skinnykitten


I totally agree with the above sentiment - I would add, also, that whilst it may not be necessary to always praise or go overboard acknowledgement-wise, graciousness and courtesy always look good on a person, whereas lack of grace and discourtesy rarely do, even within the bounds of a M/s or D/s relationship.




and boy, howdy, isn't that the truth. i raised 3 male type unmentionables, and while i don't know if they're dom, sub or 'nilla, i do know they have good manners (among other traits), and as their mom i expect them to use them. <grins -- and they know it too..lol>

a lovely thread, btw..thanks.

jimini

< Message edited by krikket -- 2/26/2006 11:48:17 AM >


_____________________________

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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/26/2006 12:30:53 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dragonzaymaster

I would like to ask the community at large what thier opinions are concerning a Masters/mistress mannerism or protocol to a slave or sub when they fulfill their tasks? For an example if a drink is delivered to the Master/Mistress does he/she acknowledge the act in any way? I am asking about the normal everyday items, that most of our culture calls manners.
Dragon


There is no written in rule protocol about stuff like that, but if you want some sort of codification about how to interact with servants/service providers as well as what to expect I would suggest reading Emily Post. You can read it online for free at:

http://www.bartleby.com/95/

In general my owner says thank you when I give him a glass of water, but definitely not always it tends to depend on how much he is occupied with other things. Frankly I think service is supposed to be just going on in the background fairly invisibly so anything more than a thank you would make me feel like I was bringing attention to myself, which is exactly the thing I don't want to do.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/27/2006 12:15:25 PM   
DragonNphoenix


Posts: 617
Joined: 8/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dragonzaymaster

I would like to ask the community at large what thier opinions are concerning a Masters/mistress mannerism or protocol to a slave or sub when they fulfill their tasks? For an example if a drink is delivered to the Master/Mistress does he/she acknowledge the act in any way? I am asking about the normal everyday items, that most of our culture calls manners.
Dragon



Hello Sir.
As 1st Girl to Master Dragon... I am rewarded with praise when i do things well. He is very respectful. But on the other hand.. there are certain things that are just expected of me on a daily basis that are not acknowledged... ie ~ getting his coffee. He just says ~ coffee please. and I go get it, no matter what I was doing when the command happened. Alot of the times, He will catch my hand as i am walking past and say something like 'love you'. The words Thank you are not usually used, i am praised in other ways. But like i said.. there are things that i do everyday just because i am supposed to do them. Is one rewarded for breathing? No, that is just something that one does on a daily basis. Does that make sense?

Thank you

1st Girl Phoenix
Beloved slave to Master Dragon

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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/27/2006 5:12:25 PM   
Dragonzaymaster


Posts: 72
Joined: 6/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The more you have the think about something, the more "un-natural" the act, gesture, or words, the more indication you have that you are doing something incongruous with your nature. Try as you might, you can't keep your eyes open during a sneeze, try as you might you can't go all day without blinking your eyes. If some protocol calls for Doms or Masters not to thank their slaves, or acknowledge their service I guess I'll have to turn in my "Master" card.




That is the best of the answers I have read. What ever comes naturally ( in any cultures case this means what we are taught growing up) . I do believe an adult can change any paradigm they posses if they choose to work at it. Look at the change in natural man from the beginning.
Dragon

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/27/2006 5:17:55 PM   
Submotive


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quote:

I would add that anytime my slaves recieve a thank you from anyone... They are required to respond with "my Pleasure". "your welcome" is something that they never say! it's a small thing, but big to me.


Thank You for this idea. i like it and believe Master will too. It states the truth plain and simply.

_____________________________

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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/28/2006 1:48:17 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


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It would depend on the situation. If there is role play going on, and a lack of acknowledgement is appropriate, then that is fine. Or, if I am punishing a boy for just cause, then perhaps I would refrain.
However, in the normal course of events, day to day stuff, I almost always acknowledge a service done for Me. Why wouldn't I? When I say please I am not offering an option, and when I say thank you I am not incurring an obligation. And I enjoy smiling and caressing a cheek, or using a term of endearment as much as anyone.
Strangely, I have been told by more than one submissive that I was not a true Domina if I used the "magic words".

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to Dragonzaymaster)
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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/28/2006 2:04:02 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
What I use from a Gorean Master’s perspective may well differ from our non Gorean Family but it what I use anyway.

Slave Collared to House Iron Bear or to Me Personally:

Formal Occasions ~

Address slave by name or girl or if mine then “Mine”.
When serving is finished, thank her simply unless she has gone above and beyond and then she may be praised if it pleases me to do so. (I have been known to even gift her with some thing like a slave bell to wear or a slave bracelet at such times also).

Informal Occasions ~

Far more relaxed and I’ll probably tease her and refer to her as my tartlett or slutlett or wench, trik or girl and when serving is finished have her kneel to my left where she can rest her head on my left thigh or even have her on my lay (assuming that she is not too heave for that. (Bad knees y’see). If it suits me she may be treated with a chocolate or two or even le laid across my knees naked so I can amuse myself toying with her bits-n-pieces. The point is it is very relaxed and informal and thus more likely to be quite intimate.

Sub/Slave Collared to People Not Members of House Iron Bear:


Address slave by name or girl.
When serving is finished, thank her simply unless she has gone above and beyond and then she may be praised if it pleases me to do so. Remembering that she is a reflection of her Dominant, I will probably tell her that she is a credit to her Dominant and has honoured his/her collar.

IMO, How you deal with sub/slaves and especially those not in your collar in a public forum is a direct reflection on you as a Dominant.


I'm probably out of step with most here and certaily would be with half of the Gorean Forum too who would comment that a slave is a beast and you are not polite to or praise a beast. However I enjoy ritual and high protocols and I guess I'll just stay the same as ever and do what I do.

“You gotta play the game. It’s all in the game and how you play it!”


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/28/2006 2:14:52 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dragonzaymaster

I would like to ask the community at large what thier opinions are concerning a Masters/mistress mannerism or protocol to a slave or sub when they fulfill their tasks? For an example if a drink is delivered to the Master/Mistress does he/she acknowledge the act in any way? I am asking about the normal everyday items, that most of our culture calls manners.
Dragon



Such protocol is much too pretentious for me. I only bother with protocol when she's straddling me on our favorite love-making chair LMAO!


- The Ranger


< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 2/28/2006 2:29:55 AM >


_____________________________

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-General George S. Patton


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RE: Etiquette with a sub/slave - 2/28/2006 9:32:18 AM   
MsPurrmeow


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

It would depend on the situation. If there is role play going on, and a lack of acknowledgement is appropriate, then that is fine. Or, if I am punishing a boy for just cause, then perhaps I would refrain.
However, in the normal course of events, day to day stuff, I almost always acknowledge a service done for Me. Why wouldn't I? When I say please I am not offering an option, and when I say thank you I am not incurring an obligation. And I enjoy smiling and caressing a cheek, or using a term of endearment as much as anyone.
Strangely, I have been told by more than one submissive that I was not a true Domina if I used the "magic words".


GDG, your entire post was well stated. I too have been accused of not being "real" if I use Please and Thank You. I've had a slave tell me that she didn't feel like a slave if my orders were phrased as a request. The best explanation I could give is this:
I live in a polite society. It's not high-protocol by any means, but we say Please and Thank You and we acknowwledge each other where I work, where I shop and with the rest of my family. I say those things because they are habit and they come form my heart to people I respect. I have learned to phrase much of my life in a neutral(polite) way so that the whole process runs smoother.

If a slave or submissive expects me to change MY natural ways and MY chosen type of ineraction and communication for them, then it's not much of a question as to who is 'Real'. I need to use those words of my own choice. Whether or not an order is screamed at them or requested politely should not change the expectation of service. the expectation of service should come from a different place.

That all being said, after I have grown some trust in a s/s that is with me and we've worked out protocols and rituals, there is often no verbal communication at all in some situations. The point being that I can be having a conversation with someone else as well as communicating with a s/s through gestures, glances, or hand signals. This works well when maintaining service and submission in the vanilla world without certain phrases. But when it's about verbal orders, it goes MY WAY, because it's MY CHOICE.



(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
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