RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (Full Version)

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SpinnerofTales -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/2/2009 6:10:09 PM)

quote:

I doubt though the Pope has appointed every single Priest, anyone could become one if they said the right things ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3



The pope may not have appointed every priest but he has the right to defrock any priest. He has the right to demote any bishop or cardinal who hides a pedophile in his jurisdiction. That he hasn't, that no pope has, speaks of centuries of tolerance for this behaviour. And I see nothing good in any organization that has that stain upon it.




luckydawg -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/2/2009 7:18:39 PM)

I am fine with stringing the Pope up till dead, if he is directly involved in this.  As well as any other priest or person.  Alaska was hit extremely hard because in the 60s adn 70s, they sent bad priests out to rural Alsaka, and we are dealing with the effects of that statewide today. 


Intersting fact however.  A child is more likely to be molested by a Public School employee, than a Priest.  And the NEA and AFT both protect teachers that do molest. 

This has been an ongoing problem for years..

"A report ordered by Congress and released in 2004 examined previous studies and surveys of teacher sexual misconduct and sent a troubling message. It estimated that some 4.5 million students out of 50 million in American public schools "are subject to sexual misconduct by an employee of a school sometime between kindergarten and 12th grade."
But that report, compiled by leading expert Charol Shakeshaft, head of the educational leadership department at Virginia Commonwealth University, was largely ignored.
This year (07), U.S. Rep. Adam Putnam, a Florida Republican, proposed legislation to create a national public registry of convicted offenders in schools, better training of investigators, and a national hot line for reports of sexual abuse in school.
It still hasn't received a hearing.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-10-22-1021049676_x.htm

Yet people like Chad Maughan stay in the classroom.
Maughan got in trouble twice for viewing pornography at schools in Washington state but was allowed to keep teaching. Within two years, he was convicted of raping a 14-year-old girl in his school.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 4:17:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
The pope may not have appointed every priest but he has the right to defrock any priest. He has the right to demote any bishop or cardinal who hides a pedophile in his jurisdiction. That he hasn't, that no pope has, speaks of centuries of tolerance for this behaviour. And I see nothing good in any organization that has that stain upon it.

He'll probably just plead ignorance to the individual circumstances involved, not being able to judge. It is plausible deniability when the organisation is so big. 



Sanity -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 6:12:49 AM)


Didn't members of several left-leaning organizations, including a few well known Democrats, lead the effort to cover up Michael Jackson's abuse of children?



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 7:21:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Didn't members of several left-leaning organizations, including a few well known Democrats, lead the effort to cover up Michael Jackson's abuse of children?


Sanity, STOP. Right here and right now. STOP. We are talking about the molestation of children here. This is not the place for the left/right argument. This is the time to stand up and say that any organization that in any way, shape or form advocates, facilitates, or tolerates the molestation of children has become an organization that must be ended by anyone who deserves the title of human being.

Make political hay elsewhere. This is not the place for it.



Sanity -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 7:24:52 AM)


But Spinner - over on the other thread you're preaching that if someone else did something bad then its okay...



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 7:37:21 AM)

Is the Pope on the political left or right, I'm curious?[:D]



Sanity -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 7:38:49 AM)


I've heard from a Catholic friend that this one is very Liberal, but I'm no authority.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Is the Pope on the political left or right, I'm curious?[:D]



Lucylastic -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 7:42:30 AM)

does not compute, does not compute, error error error




SpinnerofTales -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 7:54:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


But Spinner - over on the other thread you're preaching that if someone else did something bad then its okay...



I am not going to address your comments on my words in the other thread. That is not important enough to take away from this particular topic. We are talking about the rape of children here. This goes beyond "left" or "right". I would prefer not to see anyone try to use this issue to enhance their own party position or turn it into partisan political debate.

There are only two kinds of people on this issue. Those who find the idea of child molestation in any form to be completely, violently unacceptable and will stand with anyone else who feels the same in order to fight it and those who don't. I suggest you pick a side.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 7:57:11 AM)

DAMN SORRY - FAT FINGER COMPUTER GLITCH CAUSED DOUBLE POSTING!



Sanity -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 7:59:14 AM)


Bashing religion seems to be the top priority here, far above all else.



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 8:08:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Bashing religion seems to be the top priority here, far above all else.



No...bashing child molesters and those who give them aid and comofrt is the top priority here. And in this case I am not going to allow you to move the focus to anything else. Whether it be the Catholic Church or The Democratic National Comittee or The Chamber of Commerce of Anytown USA, any orginization that allows, condones or turns a blind eye to child molestation by it's members is an organization that needs to be condemned, made to change or wiped out entirely.

When it comes to raping children, there is no moral, political or ethical ambiguity. There are only those who are part of the solution and those who are part of the problem.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 8:12:11 AM)

quote:

That is not important enough to take away from this particular topic. We are talking about the rape of children here. This goes beyond "left" or "right". I would prefer not to see anyone try to use this issue to enhance their own party position or turn it into partisan political debate.
Depends upon how you determine the topic from the story

Bottom line, anyone that was part of the activity or the cover up should be held responsible. The fact that the Pope had first hand knowledge is being exposed should lead to speeding up the demise of this corruption of religion; which would be a positive and appropriate consequence.

Similarly as topical is the hypocrisy this situation exposes. In that perspective it is very appropriate to compare it to political rationalizations made on both sides. An individual who is forced by their closed minded and absolute loyalty to a party regardless of the hypocrisy exposed should feel just as uncomfortable and consider that there loyalty is misplaced. At the very least it should raise some doubt.

Another similarity is how in both cases, politics and religion, the followers take the same approach. Not ALL priests are bad. The cover up by the Church on behalf of the priests was for good intentions. The 'good' that is done by priests must be considered with the bad. Priests are only human. Haven't we witnessed those exact same statements made, changing the word priest to politician?

The only sad thing about the demise of organized religion is that much of humanity requires something to apply their human need to have faith. Unfortunately it appears that many transfered that faith based absolute righteousness to a political party, liberal, or conservative agenda; applying the same infallibility formerly applied to the Pope. Its guaranteed to generate the same corrupting and hypocritical results.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 8:29:45 AM)

This is quite an old story as it happens (as already pointed out), the panorama documentary was first broadcast 1st October 2006.

I found these four parts of it on youtube each ten minutes long for those interested, don't know if it'll work in other regions something’s don't.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

I guess it passed everyone by the first time, why the focus on it now?



DomKen -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/3/2009 8:37:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
I guess it passed everyone by the first time, why the focus on it now?

Penn & Teller did an episode of their show about the issue this week.



Acer49 -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/4/2009 7:17:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Here's an interesting article, apparently the pedophile priest cover up wasn't just a few wayward bishops, it's a policy mandated from the top.


It does not surprise me.
What could make anyone think that people in the church are any less morally corrupt than anyone else. People are still people.
I will say that death is too good for anyone who abuses a child. this is a crime that one can never repay and only GOD can to forgive.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/4/2009 7:28:23 AM)

.edited because I thought for a split second 'let’s have a discussion' but then I realised it wouldn't have been one in any case. Also the death penalty is not intrinsically related to this issue as such.



GotSteel -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/4/2009 10:58:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Bashing religion seems to be the top priority here, far above all else.



Actually, it was the Catholic response to the Penn and Teller season finale that was the motivation for my thread. The Catholic outrage caused me to track down that episode and watch it. I was previously unaware that Cardinal Ratzinger (the current pope) was the one to reissue crimen sollicitationis, since this issue effected people I know and was quite big in my area, I thought it was worth mentioning.



GotSteel -> RE: Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' (9/4/2009 12:19:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Some interpret the secrecy about the procedure as a cover-up of scandalous conduct.


I interpret hiding evidence by shipping it to the Vatican as a cover-up and a crime, I interpret failing to notify the police as a crime. I interpret sending pedo-priests to rehabilitation clinics and then assigning them to another parish instead of the closest police station as a cover-up. I interpret giving compensation payments to victims on the condition that the allegations remain secret a cover-up.

Reality check, the following should have been at the very beginning of the document by Cardinal Ratzinger and the following should have been issued immediately upon discovering this issue:

1. The police must be immediately informed of any accusation of a crime.

2.All evidence must be turned over to the police.




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