RE: Political indoctrination in schools:

RE: Political indoctrination in schools: (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: Political indoctrination in schools: (9/6/2009 2:55:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales quote: Not so, Arpig. The President of the United States does not decide what goes into school curriculum, and has no authority to make himself part of it. The decision about honoring his suggestions would go to the locally elected school boards, or, for a home school situation, to the parents. Censorship is an awfully strong and provocative term to apply to the exercise of lawful discretion. ORIGINAL: TheHeretic I have to agree with you, Heretic. It is not a matter of censorship. The school boards have the right to show or not show what they choose in school as relates to their curriculum. What disturbs me is this sudden thought that having the president of the United States address the children of the country is somehow a matter for controversy. As has been mentioned before, when Regan and Bush made similar speeches, there may have been a bit of comment on the political nature of their remarks, but the concept of the President addressing the children of the country was not viewed as a harmful thing in and of itself. What I have seen that is concerning for me is the rapid succession of reasons for not wanting Obama to speak. The initial reason given was a fear of "indoctrination" (see the title of this thread for example). When that notion was more or less debunked, suddenly it became an issue of wasting student's times by having them spend 20 minutes (call it an hour to get everything set up and taken down) listening to the President talk to them about staying in school and working hard. Now we've shifted to the idea that every individual school board should have been contacted and asked "is it ok if the President speaks?" Again, I have to wonder if it isn't a matter of "the president addressing" school children but of "Obama addressing school children." If that is the case, isn't the lesson we're teaching our children is that what a politician who doesn't agree with one's views is 100% bad. Isn't the brother of that thought what a politician who does agree with my views does is 100% good. And is that the lesson we really want to teach our children? I think so far I have been pretty consistant with my reasons behind thinking it's a stupid idea. Maybe if you could point out some of the posts where someone is changing from reason to reason that would help me understand your post better. As to others making the same kind of broadcast, I don't remember any time where the president has addressed all the school kids in the nation from K-12. Not that does not mean it did not happen, it just means I don't remember it. If I had, I probibly would have thought that was pretty dumb also.

TheHeretic -> RE: Political indoctrination in schools: (9/6/2009 3:11:33 PM)
We are on the same page, Spinner, but still looking at the image from different angles, and through the filters of different perspectives. Maybe I'm confuzzling posts, but didn't you suggest this might be bait, to make those who will automatically oppose anything this President does, look stupid? Wouldn't that be just as much a cynical and partisan manipulation of our students as anything the opposition suggests? My concern here, once again, is of the President allowing what should be a no-brainer to morph into a distraction. I just caught a story on the news about a school district dropping to a 4-day schedule to address budget cuts (not cutting all district administrators to a $1 a year salary, as I would suggest). Is this a good use of their time?

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Political indoctrination in schools: (9/6/2009 4:24:11 PM)
quote: We are on the same page, Spinner, but still looking at the image from different angles, and through the filters of different perspectives. Maybe I'm confuzzling posts, but didn't you suggest this might be bait, to make those who will automatically oppose anything this President does, look stupid? Wouldn't that be just as much a cynical and partisan manipulation of our students as anything the opposition suggests? My concern here, once again, is of the President allowing what should be a no-brainer to morph into a distraction. I just caught a story on the news about a school district dropping to a 4-day schedule to address budget cuts (not cutting all district administrators to a $1 a year salary, as I would suggest). Is this a good use of their time? ORIGINAL: TheHeretic It's an interesting concept, Heretic..I didn't say he planned it so. But I do think there is a chance that he knew there would be this backlash and assessed the possibilities of it. I think that he must be aware that there are some people who are going to try to make anything he does, no matter how innocent, look like a plot to overthrow our way of life. So far I have seen protestations of things as innocent as his taking his wife to a broadway show and going out to grab a local burger. This gives him two choices: Either to deal with it and go on with things in a way he considers correct or to become completely paralyzed, unable to do anything for fear of bringing on a new series of attacks, or to go on with his day to day business without too much notice paid to the most rabid of his critics. Given this, the idea of not doing something because it may become a distraction leaves him unable to do much of anything. If the most wholesome and non-controversial activity can be made into a distraction as a political weapon against him, there isn't much he can do. I truly believe that this is a tactic being tried by certain people and groups in order to bring about just such a paralysis. That Obama is not allowing it to do is merely taking a gamble that the independent voters (the only ones who really matter in the election scheme of things) will judge the anti-Obama bloc as obstructionists, rather than judging his actions to be inappropriate or against the best interests of the country.

tazzygirl -> RE: Political indoctrination in schools: (9/6/2009 9:08:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: If we were still teaching him, we would tape the program, view it later, and then decide if it was pertinent for him to view. How does this differ from the supposed indoctrination that Obama wants to carry out. You would censor the material he would be exposed to. I did not call it censor, i called it my duty as a parent and teacher. depending on the age, i rerviewed everything, except Disney... lol. They had already been reviewed, and if anything had been discovered, it was known. at 8, he wanted to watch Friday the 13th... dont remembeer which one. nope.. sorry... too young. my trust in the board of education ended with a little book called... the Lottery Rose. i read it, and cried... i gave it to a Midwife i worked with, and she cried. Its not a book i would suggest a 6th grader read, the subjects are extremely mature... yet they gave it to my 6th grader. so, yes, i review, as is my right... and was my expectation of the school board to do before they gave material to my son. they failed him, i would not.

Arpig -> RE: Political indoctrination in schools: (9/6/2009 9:37:06 PM)
Well I was raised differently. I was encouraged to read...anything and everything. My mother bought me a copy of The Satanic Bible (I believe by some guy named Levay) because she thought I might find it interesting to learn a different view on Satan. My father is a bibliophile (see I come by it honestly) and I spent most of my youth reading his books...from Gibbon to war and Peace. My parents never stopped me from learning anything, they did however discuss what I had read with me...the War and Peace discussions with my parents were very illuminating....my mother liked the story part and disliked the philosophical parts, while my father was just the opposite[:)]. My parents didn't pre-read everything I read, I was allowed free reign to read what and when I chose, and I swear by this method. My kids are encouraged to read...read anything...comic books, the Bible, Das Kapital, or Mein kampf. That is how they will learn, not by having me pre-screen their input. Some books touched me deeply (Stranger in a Strange Land for example) in a way that they did not touch my parents (they both disliked SiaSL) so they had no way of knowing what it would be important for me to read. They encouraged me and then let me loose in the library. Like my parents did, when I got my kids their first library cards I specified that they could take out any book in the library without me having to approve it,they can take out any book in the library anytime they want, and have been able to since they were about 4. The same thing went for things like the news or political broadcats, and certainly the innocuous sort of things that Obama would put into an address to all schoolkids (well somewhat less...we had no TV for much of my youth, it simply wasn't available in the countries we lived in..or it was in Japanese, which is a pretty strong deterrent[:)]). My parents discussed what I was reading and watching with me, we talked about the content, and they explained other viewpoints and recommended further reading to get me a balanced view of things. Now given that background you can see why what you said smacked of censorship to me, I meant no insult, and hope none was taken.

Irishknight -> RE: Political indoctrination in schools: (9/7/2009 2:42:03 AM)
As a parent, I felt that some amount of sensorship was necessary until my child became old enough not to be swayed by everything he was exposed to. Any parents out there remember the phase where kids see a new tv show and suddenly start playing that particular thing. We went through Ninja Turtles, Bob the Builder and Power Rangers in one week with our kid transforming into each. With that kind of emulation going on in his brain there was no way he was watching Friday 13th or Halloween. Now that he is older and more capable, I trust him to weed through bullshit on his own to find any truth that might be buried there. As for the president's speech, throw out those work books and the crap film and let him tell them to study hard and stay in school.... wait... I believe that is the current plan. As far as Obama is concerned, he seems to be trying to do the right thing.

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