tazzygirl
Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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A fool is someone that can’t learn lessons from history, we had torture in Europe it never lead to anything good, they have it now in the middle east and look how fucked up that place is, they had it in Soviet Russia nobody wanted to be a part of that place not even the Russians, then there is Nazi Germany they used to send the SS all over the place torturing people to garner information. With these fine examples from history how on earth can we not think torture a good idea, let us take them racks out of mothballs and get the real party started!
when was the last time we heard about Russia having these problems (not internally created) or the Middle East?
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Are you sure it isn't the case that you are scared because your government has no moral high ground left to demand they do things differently in such places? You see you can't condemn what people do in other parts of the world if you actively support it by transporting prisoners there for interrogation.
im not condemning them for what they do there. im comdemning them for what they do here. in this case, im no bleeding softy.
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On whose word does a suspect have the ability to kill anyone? Why are people so ignorant that they think no innocent person has ever been tortured for information they don't have based on the telepathic abilities of an interrogator? Get your head out of the sand and realise these people are suspects not proven criminals and even if their guilt had been proven the thing that separates us morally is we won't stoop to their level.
and they know we sont.. which gives them license to do pretty much what they want.
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Sure beats living in your head.
yeah, my head is a messed up place. dont try to understand me, you will fail, repeatedly.
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Here is the simple lesson for you: we are not them, nothing they do will make us the animals they are. What next are we going to justify to beat them, you want us to become as bad as them and make no distinction between suspects and convicted criminals?
works for them, dont it.
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The ss tortured people all the time but it didn't stop the resistance to Nazi Germany and you'll find those modern states that condone torture have their own terrorist problems. I mean it's not like you never hear of terrorist attacks in Jordan or Egypt is it?
The other problem with your argument is how do the people you suspect of being masterminds get past your border control in the first place? Once again what is the source of the suspicion that makes them masterminds? Should we just pull people off the street and torture them to see if those pictures they are taking are purely for tourism. What is the level of suspicion required to be able to torture and how do you want to control that? It may be somewhat inconvenient but those accused of something have the right to a fair trial with any evidence against them derived from torture being inadmissible.
Once again with the 'these people'. If we know they are 'these people' why can't we charge 'these people' for the crimes they have committed? Why do we need to torture them to build a case? Are you volunteering to set your alarm for two hour intervals during the night for a week? I'll tell you what, you do that and I'll say yes that is fine. Are you a vegetarian can I force you to eat meat, what do you mean by dietary changes, can I put laxatives in your food? Would that be against medical advice or can we just about get away with it?
The problem with you is you seem to be a black and white kind of person where if a government official tells you someone did something wrong you believe them without question. Like all those people held in Cuba some of them it seems not so dangerous that they can’t be released after a few years without ever being charged.
now you are putting words into my thread, quit assuming you know me, or my thoughts. i have no problem knowing someone is being tortured for the sake of information. if you have a problem with it, and it becomes a law here, i suggest you stay on your side of the pond. nor did i explore the physical attributes of torture. the mental can be quite enough. and yes, i have woken up people every two hours... as ordered by a physician... as required for care.
tell ya what... when it works in the UK, we will give it a go here. you cant solve your own terrorists problems, and you give the US grief?
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It has got us a fair legal system that assumes innocence.
You scare me more than they do because you and others are killing (with this attitude) everything the west was built around and the mistakes we have learnt from in the past. The protections we have in place for every citizen you propose tearing down because I don't know what Mr Terrorist looks like he could look like you to your government. We can't remove the protections for only those we suspect of being terrorists we have to remove these protections for everyone and for every crime. Perhaps torturing a kidnapper could lead to the discovery of a kidnap victim before they die, there are plenty of theoretical scenarios this torture aspect could be applied to. When the terrorists ultimate aim is met of turning the west into a paranoid totalitarian police state then your government will have this ability to torture you, just give it time. The way I see it is we are the only ones with something to lose when we torture people.
explain to me whats fair about a system that concerns itself with one over the welfare of the many. if i scare you so much, block me, always your option. just never assume you have any understanding of where i am coming from. you didnt walk my path in life, you have not dealt with my losses, nor do you have the capacity to understand my heritage.
i never once said to torture those without judicial review... i said the option should be available.
now, since you know my mind so well.. according to you... you figure out what that means and try and get it right this time.
_____________________________
Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.
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RE: Getting into the grey - 
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