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New Here/ Speech - 9/4/2009 8:31:59 AM   
SubOnlyForHim


Posts: 787
Joined: 8/19/2009
Status: offline 		I am owned, though not collared. I'm here seeking friends only and advice, lots of advice. I desire the knowledge to make my Sir proud. My biggest problem is Speech...Sir says I do not address him properly or speak properly most of the time. I am getting better at this, slowly, but feel very awkward when I speak to Sir because I fear there will be a need to be corrected. Sir has been very patient with me, but I wish to not keep testing his patience. Is anyone able to help me?
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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/4/2009 9:07:17 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		The only person who can help you is your keeper -- if you are making an error in addressing him, does he not tell you what the -correct- manner of addressing him is?

There is no common ground on the issue of speech, forms of address, order of greeting, or any of those things. They are all dependent on the household (to the greatest extent) and the particular dominant-type individual and submissive-type individual in question. For example, in our household, when we have a full complement of individuals around, we may have up to four different address/speech styles active at any given time.

Talk to your owner. Ask him how he is to be addressed, how others are to be addressed, and what other rules of speech he expects of you -- that's the only way to figure out what he wants.

Dame Calla

_____________________________

***
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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/4/2009 9:20:46 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		As usual....Calla makes perfect sense. 

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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/4/2009 11:25:19 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

The only person who can help you is your keeper -- if you are making an error in addressing him, does he not tell you what the -correct- manner of addressing him is?

There is no common ground on the issue of speech, forms of address, order of greeting, or any of those things. They are all dependent on the household (to the greatest extent) and the particular dominant-type individual and submissive-type individual in question. For example, in our household, when we have a full complement of individuals around, we may have up to four different address/speech styles active at any given time.

Talk to your owner. Ask him how he is to be addressed, how others are to be addressed, and what other rules of speech he expects of you -- that's the only way to figure out what he wants.

Dame Calla

10 points.

The difficulty being, though, that she risks upsetting him by bringing up the queries vocally without first having the answers (which means she may initiate another situation of her voicing things improperly...but clearly if she didn't, her alternative would be eternal silence!).

OP,

I'd say a couple of tidbits of advice that may be close to universal:
  • Tone: Keep a soft, yielding and respectful tone in your voice. Keep it towards the higher octaves of your normal vocal range.
  • Avoid declarative statements. "That is...", "But it...", "I don't...". Try reworking sentences in your head into questions where you are requesting  his feedback about something you wish to share: "What would Sir's feelings  be if I shared some thoughts/reservations about...".
  • A side-step from above: When in doubt, always ask for permission to share information/feelings (particularly during any discussion where you should be listening) before speaking them aloud.
  • 'You, not me': Be attentive to whether too much of what you're saying is "me" talk and let your desire to please him guide you to obtaining information so that his being pleased is something you are able to learn how to help bring about. Take extra lengths to ensure he feels that is your motivation in talking.


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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/4/2009 11:33:13 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Dame Calla said it correctly. Everyone will be different. For instance, I have no particular requirements of Carol regards speech. So my advice to you would be, "Just talk like a normal human" -- clearly not what is called for in your situation.

If your owner is touchy and uncommunicative as NZ speculates, then his advice is sound, although honestly I'd be asking dozens of questions about any dominant who required so much fooling around just to communicate. In my mind, that bodes poorly for any kind of lasting relationship.

_____________________________

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/4/2009 11:42:40 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

If your owner is touchy and uncommunicative as NZ speculates, then his advice is sound, although honestly I'd be asking dozens of questions about any dominant who required so much fooling around just to communicate. In my mind, that bodes poorly for any kind of lasting relationship.

Perhaps. At least maybe it's a odd quirk. I'm rather picky when it comes to tone and body language, though. Since I'm heavily analytical by nature, I treat each of those and indications of where the headspace of my partner is. That and I wouldn't think of this as more than just a modified vocal etiquette that is expected (as we would expect of ourselves, for instance, at a formal dinner).

If she has the interest/desire to get to a place where what she is saying comes across much more positively to her Sir, she's effectively maximizing the potential for future fruitful conversation.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 9/4/2009 11:45:30 AM >

_____________________________

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/4/2009 12:15:05 PM   
SubOnlyForHim


Posts: 787
Joined: 8/19/2009
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your advice. I should add that our relationship did not start as Master/slave. Our relationship has evolved from a long term "friendship" that did not involve any BDSM, Master/slave, Dom/sub etc until the past year. I have always respected Sir's wishes and asked permission before doing certain things, requested His opinion when making decisions, etc. I desire pleasing Him in every way possible and He has certainly been very patient with my transition, but I wonder if that patience will run out? I am a very dominant person in all other areas of life but have always been naturally submissive in relationships. I just cannot seem to get my tongue to wrap around the correct words. I have those days when I feel I can say nothing right.  It will get better! I WILL learn to speak the way I should........ I   I   I   *sigh*  

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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/4/2009 12:18:05 PM   
SubOnlyForHim


Posts: 787
Joined: 8/19/2009
Status: offline 		Sir has not said His patience was thin with myself, yet...am merely trying to better myself without having to rely on Him for every answer. I fear exhausting Him.

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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/7/2009 7:24:44 PM   
cagliostro


Posts: 128
Joined: 12/29/2007
Status: offline 		It is possible that it is not the words you are using when speaking to him. Most people don't know that something like 80% of your communication has nothing to do with the words used. The pitch, tone and timbre of your voice matter, as does your demeanor, stance, and in particular your face. You may not recognize how your entire presentation comes across to him. Especially because you are dominant in your professional life, you may have a way of communicating with others that is less submissive than he'd like.

Do you stand straight with your shoulders back, chin up, looking him straight in the eye? Look up, look down, tilt your head, speak loudly, softly, in a high tone, rapidly, slowly, etc. etc. etc. There are resources out there on body language, the face, and topics that may help you with your presentation.

If none of that helps he's going to have to be more specific. Sounds like you're trying to monitor your words, so if your presentation doesn't help, I'm not sure what the problem really is.

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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/7/2009 8:00:51 PM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cagliostro

It is possible that it is not the words you are using when speaking to him. Most people don't know that something like 80% of your communication has nothing to do with the words used. The pitch, tone and timbre of your voice matter, as does your demeanor, stance, and in particular your face.


I agree with this. I don't think the nonverbal aspect can be emphasized enough. While words do matter, too much ruminating over the right formula of words in the right arrangement won't help much at all. It's really the inward surrender that brings one to come upon the correct tone and inflection. You can make an art of mimicking this, but I'd advise against the path that will lead you down. Connect to the place that is yielding and soft, vulnerable, worshipful and full of love—but only do so if you're really able to go there in the first place.

This above all,—to thine own self be true.

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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/7/2009 9:09:52 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		that is what training is for.


if your master has not trained you properly, then how can he expect you to serve him properly???

a slaves behavior is the result of its masters training. a slaves behavior is the reflection of its master abilities.

perhaps go as far as to ask your master for some advanced training on the matter as to to not embarrass him any further. if your master does not get it at this point....... well..... uhh.......?!??!@ 

< Message edited by masterlink65 -- 9/7/2009 9:12:18 PM >

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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/7/2009 9:19:07 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		also, if your master cannot deal with, or accept, any shortcomings one may have as far as your nervousness during speech.

how long has this been going on? weeks, months ??


my slave knows when there is a difference between when to engage in normal conversation with me, and when  in a high protocol situation of strictly yes master, no master, please master, thank you master, or sorry master, or using sir, depending on where we are, and who we are with.

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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/8/2009 6:48:45 AM   
SubOnlyForHim


Posts: 787
Joined: 8/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

how long has this been going on? weeks, months ??


This has only been going on a few weeks. I never realized there was a problem with my speech until sitting at Sir's feet one evening and Sir told me that I needed to learn to address Him properly. I've always called Him by the nickname I have for Him but not in every sentence. He has instructed me to get online and read and make friends and learn the proper way to do things. I tell Him it would be so much easier if He were to just tell me what it is He wishes I would change...
I promised Sir two short-term goals, though a time limit was not put on them...that I would stop "I" and "Me"-ing Sir to death and show more respect in my speech.  He has corrected text messaging I have sent Him and forwarded it back to me, changing "Me" and "I" to "This one". and "You" (referring to Him)  to "Sir".

Normally when we are talking in person I am kneeling at Sir's feet, sometimes looking up at Sir and sometimes staring at Sir's knee because I am trying to come up with the right words. I am intimidated by NoOne, yet in His presence I'm a studdering school girl.

*Committed*


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just call me "sophie" ~~~ Thanks, sirsholly, for the new nick! i now feel so special. Whoohoooo!

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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/8/2009 6:52:18 AM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		o.0 So he wants you to use third person speech?

*headdesks*

I'm sorry that's a hard limit for me.....I have absolutely no advice for you deary.

If H/he S/starts M/making Y/you T/type L/like T/this...RUN!!!!!!!!!

(really...just kidding if that's his kink...but that would have me safe wording all over the damn place, it makes my brain hurt)


< Message edited by Sunnyfey -- 9/8/2009 6:59:07 AM >

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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/8/2009 7:39:29 AM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		its master should be helping attain its goals. to me, its master should be walking point on this one, and not expecting it to reads his mind and do an online search of how it should properly address and speak to its master.

third party speech is a useful training tool for replacing ego with servitude. when a slave ceases to think of its self as i or me, it can then go on to focus on its masters needs, but that can only happen after it has been properly trained.

i had not gotten the impression you are intimidated. i understand how situations can make one nervous. so.... as i said. if its master cannot deal with its short comings this way, then i would re-evaluate the situation.



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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/8/2009 7:42:30 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SubOnlyForHim

quote:

how long has this been going on? weeks, months ??


This has only been going on a few weeks. I never realized there was a problem with my speech until sitting at Sir's feet one evening and Sir told me that I needed to learn to address Him properly. I've always called Him by the nickname I have for Him but not in every sentence. He has instructed me to get online and read and make friends and learn the proper way to do things. I tell Him it would be so much easier if He were to just tell me what it is He wishes I would change...
I promised Sir two short-term goals, though a time limit was not put on them...that I would stop "I" and "Me"-ing Sir to death and show more respect in my speech.  He has corrected text messaging I have sent Him and forwarded it back to me, changing "Me" and "I" to "This one". and "You" (referring to Him)  to "Sir".

Normally when we are talking in person I am kneeling at Sir's feet, sometimes looking up at Sir and sometimes staring at Sir's knee because I am trying to come up with the right words. I am intimidated by NoOne, yet in His presence I'm a studdering school girl.

*Committed*



Ugh.
Hard limit.

To me it's a sign of lack of confidence and self esteem on the part of the dominant. Just my opinion, of course.

_____________________________



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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/8/2009 8:23:32 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		No one can really tell you how you should speak to him, except him, which is what he is already doing. 

I personally wouldn't concentrate at all on voice and posture; it might start to feel and look phoney.  If you genuinely feel submissive to him, your tone and demeanor are probably in perfect alignment to reflect that already. 

As far as a specific way to address him, just use whatever he likes (Sir or whathaveyou).  And if he likes "this one" instead of "I" then just do that.  I don't really see the big confusion here.  He's correcting you, which is good, just follow through, and if you slip up, just repeat it the correct way.  It's like a habit you have to learn.  He's your dom, so expect him to correct you, and don't create some big issue in your head like you're trying his patience every time he reminds you.  He probably expects this in the beginning anyway.  This is most likely his effort to get things on the track that he wants, so take that as a good sign, comply with it, relax, and don't dwell on it or doubt yourself every time he corrects you; that could make you seem like a mental case of a burden instead of a submissive.

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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/8/2009 8:37:32 AM   
SubOnlyForHim


Posts: 787
Joined: 8/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I personally wouldn't concentrate at all on voice and posture; it might start to feel and look phoney.  If you genuinely feel submissive to him, your tone and demeanor are probably in perfect alignment to reflect that already. 



I do and have always felt submissive to Him, even before the dynamics of our relationship changed from vanilla boyfriend/girlfriend to Master/slave. I do not understand the point of third person. My guess is someone else speaks this way to Him and He likes it. Why do I have to be like everyone else? Our relationship has gone on far longer than His with either of His others. We will always share things that it is impossible for Him to share with anyone else. Why must I speak the way they do? It makes me angry. I love Him, would go to the ends of the earth for Him. I do believe He feels the same for me...We've broken up, always end up back together.....He's disowned me once and brought me back into His life telling me "Admit it or not I STILL own you". The more I talk to everyone the worse I feel.

Seems to me now Sir is only trying to distance Himself from me, trying to NOT have the love we've always had. He is a new Master and I am new to being labeled a slave, though even before the label it's what I've truly always been to Him, but my feelings toward Him have never wavered.

I should speak with Him about this but am terrified He will turn me away again. I cannot keep risking that He will keep wanting me back. I should just give in to His wishes to keep the Master I love so dearly.

*Committed* 
~The more answers I get, the more questions I have.~


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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/8/2009 8:51:23 AM   
shadowowl


Posts: 198
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65

that is what training is for.
if your master has not trained you properly, then how can he expect you to serve him properly???
a slaves behavior is the result of its masters training. a slaves behavior is the reflection of its master abilities.
perhaps go as far as to ask your master for some advanced training on the matter as to to not embarrass him any further. if your master does not get it at this point....... well..... uhh.......?!??!@ 

That's the way I see it.  It's the Master/Mistresses job to train their sub/slave/pet/property etc.
if they dotn' like the way you are doing something it's a reflection on how they trained (or didn't train) you.
and it's the sub/slave/pet/property's job to be trainable and obediant and their best to obey.  if both are doing their jobs then there shoudl be harmony.  :)

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RE: New Here/ Speech - 9/10/2009 2:47:08 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SubOnlyForHim

I do and have always felt submissive to Him, even before the dynamics of our relationship changed from vanilla boyfriend/girlfriend to Master/slave. I do not understand the point of third person. My guess is someone else speaks this way to Him and He likes it. Why do I have to be like everyone else? Our relationship has gone on far longer than His with either of His others. We will always share things that it is impossible for Him to share with anyone else. Why must I speak the way they do? It makes me angry. I love Him, would go to the ends of the earth for Him. I do believe He feels the same for me...We've broken up, always end up back together.....He's disowned me once and brought me back into His life telling me "Admit it or not I STILL own you". The more I talk to everyone the worse I feel.

Seems to me now Sir is only trying to distance Himself from me, trying to NOT have the love we've always had. He is a new Master and I am new to being labeled a slave, though even before the label it's what I've truly always been to Him, but my feelings toward Him have never wavered.

I should speak with Him about this but am terrified He will turn me away again. I cannot keep risking that He will keep wanting me back. I should just give in to His wishes to keep the Master I love so dearly.

*Committed* 
~The more answers I get, the more questions I have.~



OK I think we now have the real story here. Firstly though I will agree with others that the precise directions and guidance should have come clearly from Him ... if He wants to call Himself "Master" then He should be one, which means clearly laying out the rules He wants obeyed. Even as a new Master it shouldn't be beyond Him to do that. I strongly believe that someone cannot break a rule they didn't know existed. To blame or punish for this is just crazy. However if they choose to break it after they know about it, then that's different. The fact that He seems to believe there is "one true way" to address a Dominant and that she can learn this online worries the hell outta Me! A Dominant who has any experience/research outside of His own square metre box around Him will realise there is no common ground, just as Dame Calla so eloquently expressed. This sounds to Me like a Master who doesn't know what He's doing so blames the girl for His own failings. Not a healthy relationship to be in on that basis alone. Sure everyone has to learn somehow, but there are healthier ways to share a learning journey than this.

It gets even less healthy when looking at what I bolded in the quote above. The OP doesn't see the point of third person speech because the D in question has never explained it to her. Perhaps He doesn't really know either, just thinks it's "the way". However the OP continues with the notion that she is being required to copy someone else ... that may or may not be the case. If the relationship was healthy, that wouldn't be an issue, doing what He likes would be sufficient. But it is clear that is not in the case, and that there is a huge amount of jealousy festering about these "others" and why she should emulate them. I don't say this is wrong of her to feel this way, I can see this is a perfectly natural result of the situation. However, what IS wrong is how the D-type appears to have handled this entire scenario. If He is such a new Master, why on earth is He taking on a whole swagbag of subs? He can't handle the one He's got in the flesh so it seems.

OP you say you love Him dearly ... you have ended up with Him over and over again ... please, take a long hard look at this. If this was happening to a friend of yours, would you tell her to persist or to get out before she's an emotional basket-case? No one thing here is necessarily wrong in and of itself, third person speech isn't wrong, being poly isn't wrong ... it's the mishandling that is wrong. Only you can decide for yourself if staying is worse than leaving.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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