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How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 3:37:32 AM

Drummerpunk7

Posts: 46
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline

Quick background. I am 24, my wife is also 24. We were married at 20.

Long story short, I had an early mid life crisis and while away discovered bdsm and identified as a dom. I've done a bit of research and reading(Loving Dominant) but still consider myself inexperienced as I have theory and not practice.

When I left, my wife was told that it was to be with a "gorean" girl, which of course caused her to research it and she took it as being what I wanted and assumes that all bdsm is as extreme as the slavery detailed there.

When I returned I explained that while I could curb the dom inside of me to focus on fixing our relationship, I would not be able to ignore it. She agreed that once our marriage was repaired and I had a job that we could explore D/s(after a lengthy conversation explaining that Gor was not something I was interested in).

So here we are. I have a job. Our marriage is as if I never left.

I need to present my needs to her, and wanted to know how I should go about this without seeming threatening( I don't want to her to think I'm saying "if you don't do this I'll leave and find someone who will").

I understand that trust and communication are key, but my tendency is to be rather brash with the truth about things. So I ask you, the community, as to what to say. How do I present my needs and that I want HER, not just anyone, to be submissive?

Post #: 1

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 4:03:37 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline

For ages i sort of hoped my Husband would draw me in... that He would want to do things to me... it is so scary to voice your desires if you are unsure of the reception that sometimes it seems safer to just keep quiet... also if you are brave enough to talk and open up and request things you have to brace yourself for some hystercal laughter... from a shocked and frightened spouse... put things in their mind and then be patient...

Eventually i just ended up submitting, there seemed nothing else to do... i started asking for things and i suppose starting to Dominate is just the same thing but from the otherside... just start by asking for things, sweetly and intimately and praise her for everything she does...
Tell her what you would like to do to her and then wait till she is ready for it...

good luck

(in reply to Drummerpunk7)

Post #: 2

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 4:15:46 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drummerpunk7

When I left, my wife was told that it was to be with a "gorean" girl

Told by who? You, or someone else?

quote:

( I don't want to her to think I'm saying "if you don't do this I'll leave and find someone who will").
[\quote]

Well, the fact that you left her once and she thinks it was to find someone who was a slave will make her think that anyway.
quote:

I understand that trust and communication are key, but my tendency is to be rather brash with the truth about things.

What does being "brash" mean? That you tell her what you like, and don't listen to her response?

Actually, your entire post is asking the wrong question. You're asking, "The is what I want. How do I get my wife to understand what I want?" The proper question is "How do I get to know what my wife is thinking?"

Being a Dom is about more than getting your way. It's also about knowing what your sub needs and being willing to give it to her. Bluntly, I don't see you caring about that in your post at all.

So, the question is, how do you get her to open up and talk about HER needs and HER concerns? I suggest you take the time to have a weekly talk with her. If you have kids, get out of the house. If she has a need to see housework that should be done instead of focusing on the two of you, get out of the house. But spend some quiet time with her and shock her by saying. "I don't think we're talking as much as we should. I want to hear what's going on inside of you." ANd then shut up and listen to her.

It will take a few weeks to get past her reserve and her fear of opening up to you. When she does, you can expect to hear a lot of anger and hurt at your affair. If you can get past that part, and understand and care about her feelings, you can begin to repair your marriage.

Once you know what's going on inside of her, then you determine what changes need to be made for her and your own betterment. Then you explain to her what changes should be made and why, and listen to her response.

Being a Dom is more about getting your submissive's trust than tying her up and spanking her. Start earning that trust.

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 9/5/2009 4:19:36 AM >

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Drummerpunk7)

Post #: 3

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 5:37:13 AM

Drummerpunk7

Posts: 46
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline

She was told by someone else.

I say things bluntly, I don't sugar coat it, is what I meant by brash.

I completely agree with you about listening to her and trying to find her needs. Thank you for that advice.

For the record, physical play isn't really a part of my kink. Sex is all well and fun, and I'm sure our tastes will evolve as we get older. I want more of the mental and emotional dominance.

At any rate, you have sparked my mind to sit her down and discuss what it is she needs and what she wants. I know that by providing those things will likely earn the adoration I desire.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 4

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 7:10:20 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

You can't make her like it if it isn't in her.

More than that, you have to prove that you are worth following. Do you do what you say? Always?
You don't ever say you're coming home in half an hour and show up three hours late, having stayed to watch the game.

Do you make good decisions? Because if you aren't a good money manager, then she'd be stupid to turn over her earnings for you to blow on a stereo system instead of paying the bills.

Do you lose your temper easily? Because you won't get honest and frank answers if she knows that bad news will cause you to yell and scream and curse at her.

Instead of telling her, inspire her.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Drummerpunk7)

Post #: 5

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 8:02:08 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drummerpunk7

Quick background. I am 24, my wife is also 24. We were married at 20.

Long story short, I had an early mid life crisis and while away discovered bdsm and identified as a dom. I've done a bit of research and reading(Loving Dominant) but still consider myself inexperienced as I have theory and not practice.

Once our marriage was repaired and I had a job that we could explore D/s

So here we are. I have a job. Our marriage is as if I never left.

my tendency is to be rather brash with the truth about things.

Get 'em from the start:

Bride taken in hand
Just Married

OK, seriously--

You didn't have a midlife crisis. You're a kid, and acting like one, from walking off when you don't want to handle things to your self-image as independently "brash" when you're just youthfully obnoxious at times. [No, not in your post--it's fine]

The two of you will need to grow--and grow up--together. The girl isn't doing anything wrong--and neither are you. You are, however, as much as you aren't going to want to hear it, just kids playing adult. Accept it, and let things unfold naturally.

Even with a lot of experience, the youngest girls I ever take on are 24. Before that, they are just too uncertain of who they are and what they might want out of life. 24 is just the start of a long maturation process that will continue for years.

Learn her. So far, this is all about you. Even a dog trainer knows not all dogs are the same. You need to learn to master the girl in front of you, but before you can do that, you need to learn to master yourself. The actions you've describe point clearly to this obstacle.

So cut her some slack, love her, and work on both yourself and your marriage if that's the direction you wish to go.

Good luck.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 9/5/2009 8:07:36 AM >

(in reply to Drummerpunk7)

Post #: 6

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 8:24:33 AM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

She was told by someone else.

I am getting the feeling you're leaving much of the story out, not that you're obliged to share more..

Are you intimating you and your wife split up? You "left", you broke up? Can you be less cryptic? And no, you don't have a mid life crisis at 24.

So you left your wife? And now you want back under different terms? And she is who she was? Am I missing something here? Care to elaborate?

(in reply to Drummerpunk7)

Post #: 7

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 8:50:13 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

If your marriage is strong enough to survive D/s, then it's strong enough to just talk about it in plain and unvarnished terms. I can tell you that a large part of what eased this whole thing for Carol & I was that we didn't commit to anything really. Our commitment was to explore D/s together with an eye towards TPE. So far, it's been a wonderful experience for us. But if that changed, we woud stop. Notice the emphasis on "we" on all those statements. It is my general feeling that nothing ought to be scary when two people are exploring, hand-in-hand, together. It's only when one person gets out of sync with the other that it all goes belly-up.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Drummerpunk7)

Post #: 8

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 8:53:57 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drummerpunk7
At any rate, you have sparked my mind to sit her down and discuss what it is she needs and what she wants. I know that by providing those things will likely earn the adoration I desire.

*chuckles* Of course, you risk the dreaded label "service dominant" by actually caring about what your sub wants, but yeah, that's how I do it too. I crafted a single vision that encompassed both her needs/wants and mine. Then I delivered on it. In the end, I'm not taking anything from Carol by being her master, I am giving things to her... things which she highly values. Not surprisingly, she's gotten way behind being my slave as she's seen it work out well for her.

Your dominance won't seem "threatening" to her as long as it genuinely isn't and she knows that. So if you see this as some way to "get" things from your wife, then it's probably doomed to failure. If, on the other hand, you see it as a way to give things into the marriage, well, then maybe it'll go somewhat like Carol's and mine marriage has.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Drummerpunk7)

Post #: 9

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 10:29:18 AM

Wantstocontrolu

Posts: 127
Joined: 4/11/2008
Status: offline

Either she is or she is not, Do not try and change who she is. If you do it will not work.
Seek your local community, go to a few munches allow her to talk to others. do not push anything.

_____________________________

wantstocontrolu

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 10

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 10:31:19 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

If she is not naturally submissive D/s will not work. So the first thing you both need to figure out is, is she submissive and receptive to you as a Dominant? Please do not make the mistake in thinking that all women are submissive, we are not. I can tell you this from first hand experience, either she is or she is not, or she could be somewhere in between. Once you and she figure this part out then take the rest of it slowly and it will fall into place. If she is not then you both have some soul searching to do.

Good luck,
~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to Drummerpunk7)

Post #: 11

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 11:48:39 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

You're either a dominant personality, take charge, leadership type of personality of a man or you are not.

She either wants to be submissive to you because of your dominant personality traits or she does not.

You can't make someone be that way towards you. Is she subservient to you? Do you take the lead in the relationship? Does she do things for you without being told to? Does she do things when you tell her to? If so then you already have what you want. YOu don't need to call is d/s or bdsm for it to be the way you want.

Or are you looking for more of the formalities of bdsm/ d/s? If so those can be practiced and learned over time.

You can tell her that this is what you want from the relationship and she can decide if she can be happy with it that way.

If not then one of you is going to have to give in or you both move on.

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 12

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/5/2009 12:06:10 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

Just for the record, I disagree with the genetic theory of D/s. Humans are way too complicatd to nail down to something so simple. We all adjust and adapt to situations we find ourselves in and, in the process, uncover hidden parts of ourselves or sometimes make entirely new parts. Maybe incorrectly, but I think I could take most any woman who wasn't violently dominant and make a pretty nice spot for her as my submissive... assuming she met other criteria of course. I also think that given time to mentor properly, I could take most men who are not violently submissive and teach them how to be a decent leader.

In a married couple, I think it matters a lot more how much they want to be compatible than how compatible they happen to be at any one instant. Most humans I know are pretty flexible and if they actually want to find a win-win scenario, they will.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 13

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/6/2009 12:39:04 AM

MarcEsadrian

Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drummerpunk7

Quick background. I am 24, my wife is also 24. We were married at 20.

Long story short, I had an early mid life crisis and while away discovered bdsm and identified as a dom. I've done a bit of research and reading(Loving Dominant) but still consider myself inexperienced as I have theory and not practice.

I need to present my needs to her, and wanted to know how I should go about this without seeming threatening ( I don't want to her to think I'm saying "if you don't do this I'll leave and find someone who will").

I understand that trust and communication are key, but my tendency is to be rather brash with the truth about things. So I ask you, the community, as to what to say. How do I present my needs and that I want HER, not just anyone, to be submissive?

I would be curious to know what preexisting structure you are planning to build on top of in your version 2.0 marriage. That is definitely something worth musing over forward and backward. It is probable that you will not find harmony in this endeavor unless you both mutually share a vested interest in exploring this way of life, and I do mean to underscore that. She will need to find a real internal desire to submit, and you, above all things, will need to not only lead well, but inspire and hone that submission. Sounds easy in pixel text, but it's not so easy in real life. Dominating the woman, truly, is no small thing, and men who assume it is easy are puppets. Assess and communicate with eyes fully open, no matter how painful what those eyes inevitably see. That is really the first step.

That said, the cards seem already stacked against you, my friend. I would advise caution in assuming your marriage is "as if you never left". You have left once, and had to be told to get a job, from what it looks like. You are already in a situation of appeasing conditions she has set in order for you to be enthroned. I'm aware I know nothing about the details and nuances of your relationship, but considering that morsel of detail, something already sounds amiss. Who is the King? The King or the King Maker? If not by nobility and self action earned, how can the mantle of master be yours, truly? Consider how you will inspire her submission by being a better man on your own—by how you will illuminate that hidden corner in her mind where she no doubt resents and mistrusts you. I wish you luck.

(in reply to Drummerpunk7)

Post #: 14

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/6/2009 5:44:20 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

You have received some very good advice here. One thing I want to emphasize is that you need to make the repairs in your marriage prior to the introduction of D/s. Things may be going well since your return, but if you really were involved with someone else during your departure, you have some fixing to do. You're not going to get submission from anyone who doesn't trust you. Right now, I'm not so sure you're in that position of trust. For example, if you are so brash and don't sugar coat things, why did someone else have to tell your wife about the other girl?

Work on establishing the trust and communication in your marriage first. You need that foundation. D/s isn't going to work without it. In the meantime, start being the man that you should be. At 24, nobody should have to be telling you that you need to get a job. That should be a responsibility that you could see for yourself. If you are running other areas of your life like that, you're less likely to have someone believe that you are capable of making proper decisions with the power that you want to have over them. I'm not saying it's hopeless. I'm saying you have work to do.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)

Post #: 15

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/6/2009 5:55:22 AM

SweetNika

Posts: 955
Joined: 4/19/2008
From: Forest Hills, Maryland
Status: offline

I would sit down and be honest with your wife and tell her what you need and truly listen to what she needs from the relationship. Then make the choices that meet the needs of both of you. Remember there is no right or wrong, no true way there is only the way that works for you. The hard part is often finding that way.

_____________________________

Blessed be,
Nika

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 16

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/6/2009 9:27:11 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

The major problem, op, is that you've already proven yourself to be an untrustworthy liar.

You promised fidelity when you married her. Instead you ran off in a huff and cheated on her.
You promised to help make your marriage the best possible. Instead you refused to get a job and endangered her by living off her.

And now you want her to pretend that you aren't the person you are. If she's got any smarts, she'll know exactly what to think of today's promises, the same as she thinks of the previous ones.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to SweetNika)

Post #: 17

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/6/2009 12:21:38 PM

DavanKael

Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline

Highlighting what Musicmystery, Leadership527, and LadyPact said specifically.
I got married 9 days after I turned 18. My ex- and I got together when I was 15. We were together for 17 years, to the day.
Age doesn't make you act like an asshat, selfishness, immaturity, and fear are a few of the things that are more likely to blame.
Sit down, talk about it. At least you have a partner who is willing to talk with you about your needs (Mine wasn't...well, wasn't willing to meet them, we could talk all we wanted) and who's willing to give you another chance after your wandering off (A huge leap of faith and trust that I'm not sure I'd be willing to proffer). Best wishes,
Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 18

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/6/2009 3:25:42 PM

Drummerpunk7

Posts: 46
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline

we sat down last night and discussed everything. I asked her needs and wants, and outlined my own. Overall it went very well.

Perhaps I should have mentioned in my original post that my wife is naturally submissive, she just didn't internalize that word with her behavior.

We plan on taking things slowly, as we should. I explained that Gor has absolutely nothing to do with what I want, and that she should forget she ever heard about it.

A big concern for her, was that she felt that submissives are not allowed opinions or concerns and that their input means nothing.
I explained quite the opposite, saying that I value her opinion, and will always take it into consideration when making decisions(i used venues for dinner as an example, asking where she wanted to eat, and explaining that I would either agree, or choose something else, and that ultimately the decision would be made by me).

Things are looking good so far. We talked for about 2 hours last night.

Unfortunately, I haven't found any munches in the local area, so I may have to commute a bit to them. Hemet is a terrible place for this sort of thing.

(in reply to DavanKael)

Post #: 19

RE: How to Present D/s to a spouse. - 9/6/2009 3:30:42 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drummerpunk7

we sat down last night and discussed everything. I asked her needs and wants, and outlined my own. Overall it went very well.

Perhaps I should have mentioned in my original post that my wife is naturally submissive, she just didn't internalize that word with her behavior.

We plan on taking things slowly, as we should. I explained that Gor has absolutely nothing to do with what I want, and that she should forget she ever heard about it.

A big concern for her, was that she felt that submissives are not allowed opinions or concerns and that their input means nothing.
I explained quite the opposite, saying that I value her opinion, and will always take it into consideration when making decisions(i used venues for dinner as an example, asking where she wanted to eat, and explaining that I would either agree, or choose something else, and that ultimately the decision would be made by me).

Things are looking good so far. We talked for about 2 hours last night.

Unfortunately, I haven't found any munches in the local area, so I may have to commute a bit to them. Hemet is a terrible place for this sort of thing.

(Actually....Hemet's just a terrible place....period).

(in reply to Drummerpunk7)

Post #: 20

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