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RE: A dominant? - 9/6/2009 11:23:12 AM   
Lostkitten3


Posts: 179
Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: offline 		BEnevolence and responsibility are missing in many people's psychological make up.

WHo parented these people and why did they fail so miserably to create effective productive, lovable adults?

Why are there so many now?

And why do they insist the problem is with the rest of the world?

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RE: A dominant? - 9/6/2009 11:25:36 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: destiny2009

I continue to be amazed , even after this long how many men who say they are true dominants are far from it. I would expect that a person who i will trust to care for me, guide me, keep me safe and manage our situations in life may exhibit these qualities in their own life. All too often the so-called dominant is incapable of providing care and security in his own life, without thinking of doing so for another person. Not able to hold down a job (even before the credit crunch), an environment that is so filthy and messy, you would not keep a dog or cat in there, a thin grasp on what reality or real life constitues etc etc. They then advertise themselves explaining that their ultimate role is to provide, care for and train their sub/slave. I say their training should start closer to home first.


not that long ago my mentor offered me the following words that i recently shared with someone else. i'll give them to you as well. perhaps they will shed light on what you've stated and guide your steps going forward.

a man may think he is something. he meets a woman and convinces her of the same. in turn she validates what has been stated, which allows him to believe what is not. thus he becomes.

i will admit the same is true for women as well. i don't believe the comment is one sided. now my spin on it is very simple. just because a person proclaims he's a dominant, doesn't imply he can dominate. one is a noun, the other a verb. both are markedly different. i would suggest you focus on the action and ignore the label.

but then again this really starts at home with you. knowing who you are and what you need determines the appropriate dominant. if you haven't figured this out you'll continually come up short. there are various styles and one isn't necessarily better than the next, but may not be appropriate for you. if you strip away all the catch all bs and focus on the basic premise behind dominance it is someone who leads.

you've already indicated you've met people that seem incapable of doing this. it would seem that's a big indication that you're not compatible and rather than being miffed i'd be happy we saved one another time. there's also the fact that if you articulate what you're seeking and be blunt about it people that are unqualified generally won't bother. i save a million keystrokes this way.

porcelaine


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RE: A dominant? - 9/6/2009 11:26:53 AM   
Lockit


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RE: A dominant? - 9/7/2009 11:31:40 AM   
LadySunn


Posts: 102
Joined: 7/19/2008
Status: offline 		....a man may think he is something. he meets a woman and convinces her of the same. in turn she validates what has been stated, which allows him to believe what is not. thus he becomes.....


Very true indeed.


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RE: A dominant? - 9/7/2009 1:25:32 PM   
antipode


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quote:

I would expect that a person who i will trust to care for me, guide me, keep me safe and manage our situations in life may exhibit these qualities in their own life.


The rules you make are for you, not for anybody else.

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RE: A dominant? - 9/7/2009 2:06:07 PM   
sexisubi


Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: destiny2009

I continue to be amazed , even after this long how many men who say they are true dominants are far from it. I would expect that a person who i will trust to care for me, guide me, keep me safe and manage our situations in life may exhibit these qualities in their own life. All too often the so-called dominant is incapable of providing care and security in his own life, without thinking of doing so for another person. Not able to hold down a job (even before the credit crunch), an environment that is so filthy and messy, you would not keep a dog or cat in there, a thin grasp on what reality or real life constitues etc etc. They then advertise themselves explaining that their ultimate role is to provide, care for and train their sub/slave. I say their training should start closer to home first.


i could never date or be the submissive of someone who is filthy, gross, and financially irresponsible.  i also dont think its the Dominates job to 'take care of me.' i have to take care of myself, my finances, my life, my responsibilities, my bills, manage my money. i think anyone who says i want to provide for my submissive might be someone who is new to the lifestyle. maybe they do want someone to be a stay at home house wife and those cases do exist as stated in another thread. however its not a situation that anyone can just jump right into anyway.

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RE: A dominant? - 9/7/2009 2:32:32 PM   
Whenready


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Status: offline 		An idle thought. On the one hand the OP cannot abide "an environment that is so filthy and messy, you would not keep a dog or cat in there".

On the other, some folk here like scat.

Takes all sorts.

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RE: A dominant? - 9/7/2009 2:43:18 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: destiny2009

I continue to be amazed , even after this long how many men who say they are true dominants are far from it. I would expect that a person who i will trust to care for me, guide me, keep me safe and manage our situations in life may exhibit these qualities in their own life. All too often the so-called dominant is incapable of providing care and security in his own life, without thinking of doing so for another person. Not able to hold down a job (even before the credit crunch), an environment that is so filthy and messy, you would not keep a dog or cat in there, a thin grasp on what reality or real life constitues etc etc. ...


I am not amazed anymore- it has been my experience that extremes- extreme political views, extreme religious groups, extreme lifestyles- tend to attract damaged and unstable individuals who are drawn to its promise of a cure for their pain. Even if the majority of the folks here are well-balanced and emotionally healthy, there is a rather high percentage who are not.
This happens on both sides of the kneel, of course, and accounts for the frequency of the threads like this one.

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RE: A dominant? - 9/7/2009 3:29:28 PM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: destiny2009

I continue to be amazed , even after this long how many men who say they are true dominants are far from it. I would expect that a person who i will trust to care for me, guide me, keep me safe and manage our situations in life may exhibit these qualities in their own life. All too often the so-called dominant is incapable of providing care and security in his own life, without thinking of doing so for another person. Not able to hold down a job (even before the credit crunch), an environment that is so filthy and messy, you would not keep a dog or cat in there, a thin grasp on what reality or real life constitues etc etc. They then advertise themselves explaining that their ultimate role is to provide, care for and train their sub/slave. I say their training should start closer to home first.



quote:



allthatjazz wrote - Well the first thing I would be looking for in a Dominant man is the ability to be in control of his own existence and that would include good hygiene, enthusiasm for life and ambition.
If he's too lazy to get off his fat arse and partake in the world then he is going to be too lazy to Dominate me.

This is so true - i feel sorry for the individual as he obviously has other issues and i dont think he s getting the midication or support he needs to manage a realo existance - this time i was lucky but it shows how different an individual can be when you see them in their environment.



Sometimes you don't even have to meet the person in their environment to work this out, just read what they write or listen to what they have to say.

I'm sorry but making judgment calls, jumping to conclusions and trying to fit people into neat little stereotypical boxes also leads to a thin grasp of reality and shows a significant lack of understanding of what not just real life but also people are all about, at least from my perspective.

Notice how the conditional statement made by allthatjaz 'if he's too lazy to get off his fat arse..' becomes a definite statement of opinion made by the OP in 'as he obviously has other issues and I don't think he is getting the medication or support he needs to manage a real existence.'

I find that really sad that according to the OP (who has set herself up as knowledgeable on obesity from a clinical perspective) feels that an obese person cannot be a dominant or even function properly in real life.

I'm sorry to spoil the fun here by refusing to join the 'let's piss on doms' party but a dominant to me is a human being with a tendency or preference to dominate or assume control in their interpersonal relationships and I for one hold them to no higher standards than either myself or anyone else for that matter.

I know some fine people who identify as dominants who don't have jobs, which doesn't suggest that they can't hold down jobs but just tells me they don't have a job. I know plenty of obese people who work, have families and function perfectly well in society, some even identify as dominants and (gasp shock horror) get by without medication or support.

The lazy aspect yes, I agree with it, I wouldn't want to be with someone who had issues with getting out of bed in the morning and I don't particularly want to become someone's motivation for living.

But you know real life does exist and a part of that real life whether we like it or not is yes, that not everybody is going to have jobs, some people are going to put on weight, some people do leave piles of laundry lying around and have more important things to do than cleaning, some people have debts, some people are living from hand to mouth, some people are so ill they cannot work, some people are homeless and sleeping on their friend's sofa temporarily - all this is also real life. It might not be for you, but it could well be for someone else and it gets dealt with in due course.

This standard you are holding these 'doms' up to, what about their standards and how well do you match up their their standards?

We are not talking about doms here, but people - individuals. These people who identify themselves as dominants come in all shapes and sizes, come from all backgrounds, different cities, all ages, at different stages of life. They are all 'true' people, with 'true' lives, and to me they are all 'true' doms. Every last one of them.

You may disagree, but I don't see it as their issue, I see it very much as your issue. It's you who has set yourself up as what is socially acceptable as a dom for everyone and what is 'true'.

Try replacing the word 'true' with 'compatible' and go back and read all what you have written. I have done this, and when I replaced your 'true' with 'compatible' all your posts and opinions to me made perfect sense and I can see exactly where you are coming from and I'm even inclined to agree with you.

You can try as hard as you like but not everyone is going to fit into pigeonholes and stereotypes because they are individuals. Now when someone says 'true' or 'real' I assume they mean 'compatible', and when they say 'fake' they mean 'incompatible'. Sometimes having an open mind works wonders.

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RE: A dominant? - 9/7/2009 5:58:30 PM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Trust is more often misplaced than it is breached. Gain confidence through experience over time. Patience is a virtue.

Sadly, a great many self proclaimed "masters" attempt to impose control upon others to compensate for their own lack of inner self control. One who has mastered their self then earns respect and inspires the confident surrender of another by always demonstrating their own open hearted self control and discipline.

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RE: A dominant? - 9/7/2009 6:19:24 PM   
CaringandReal


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Joined: 2/15/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySunn

....a man may think he is something. he meets a woman and convinces her of the same. in turn she validates what has been stated, which allows him to believe what is not. thus he becomes.....


Very true indeed.




I didn't understand that statement. Procelaine, could you clarify? Do you mean this in a postive way, such as a bootstraping process that can occur between two people and that results in a non-dominant or unconscious dominant becoming a dominant, or did you have another meaning in mind?

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RE: A dominant? - 9/7/2009 6:30:37 PM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		I am looking for someone who is functioning (in some ways) at a higher level than I am. And that's a pretty high level. Someone who could not take care of their house, or their business, I would not trust to lead me.




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RE: A dominant? - 9/7/2009 7:22:42 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySunn

....a man may think he is something. he meets a woman and convinces her of the same. in turn she validates what has been stated, which allows him to believe what is not. thus he becomes.....


Very true indeed.




I didn't understand that statement. Procelaine, could you clarify? Do you mean this in a postive way, such as a bootstraping process that can occur between two people and that results in a non-dominant or unconscious dominant becoming a dominant, or did you have another meaning in mind?


allow me to explain what the comment means.

a person may think themselves to be one thing. but that doesn't imply their belief is true. we've all met people that fall into this category. but this goes beyond mere belief. because even though i'm an advocate for positive thinking and i utilize techniques from many schools of thought, including abraham hicks. i still have a huge dose of common sense and i'm aware of my competency. regardless of where i may 'wish' to be.

when the party believes himself to be one thing and convinces the unsuspecting party he is 'that'. but fails to convey that it is a work in progress when he does. there is great room for misinterpretation. which of course he does not openly address. he allows her to believe he has arrived at 'that' place instead. she responds as if the projection were certain and true.

which then validates what is not (his original belief). giving the impression he is something that he has never become at all (because it is all in his head). leading him to respond as if he always was what he 'proclaimed' (professed/projected) all along.

porcelaine


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RE: A dominant? - 9/8/2009 10:19:03 AM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: destiny2009

I continue to be amazed , even after this long how many men who say they are true dominants are far from it. I would expect that a person who i will trust to care for me, guide me, keep me safe and manage our situations in life may exhibit these qualities in their own life. All too often the so-called dominant is incapable of providing care and security in his own life, without thinking of doing so for another person. Not able to hold down a job (even before the credit crunch), an environment that is so filthy and messy, you would not keep a dog or cat in there, a thin grasp on what reality or real life constitues etc etc. They then advertise themselves explaining that their ultimate role is to provide, care for and train their sub/slave. I say their training should start closer to home first.


I'm just curious about the story behind the story.
Does the OP meet these types often? How and why? What is it that's initially appealing about them - or are they selected by lottery? First come, first serve?
Just wondering what mechanisms are involved.

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RE: A dominant? - 9/9/2009 8:10:17 AM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		you are correct in that, you should be able to expect certain traits and behavior from a dom/master etc. just as i would expect certain traits and behaviors in a potential slave.

one thing i would think, is , if a person has no self control then how can that person control others? i need to have control of my own life, before i can control a slave.

as far as the mess goes,,,, maybe thats why he needs a slave. i have a lot of clutter here as well. i own two business, with apts above each one, on and on and on, restoring an old building, the list keeps going.

it is the masters job to keep the household safe, and manage the affairs as well. but believe me, the first thing when a slave gets here is get put to work,, either training or chores.



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RE: A dominant? - 9/16/2009 2:07:53 AM   
katrinka


Posts: 4
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Status: offline 		This is an interesting thread --- I think it depends on what you are looking for.  An S/m playmate who makes you wet can have any number of bad qualities.  In a long term relationship, well - they would need the qualities needed in any ltr. 

At a very young age I was married to a "dom" who was just kind of a sadist and a narcissist.  As a playmate he would have been great; technically his skills were terrific.  But, as a partner in a committed d/s marriage  it was a disaster; especially cuz he 'got me young and taught me right' - alas, he was irresponsible, leaving me to clean up mess after mess after mess.  And, as his slave I had no real recourse and leaving him didn't occur to me.  Now, he wasnt an abusive irresponsible mess BECAUSE he was a "DOM" - he was a mess because he was a MESS. 

Seven years and 8000 miles later, I've had a few playmates, a few vanilla boys (who didn't know what the heck to do with a sub, but liked the sex anyway) - I finally found a person who enbodies qualities that I admire in any aspect.  He is responsible, ethical, scrupulously honest, attractive, creative, intelligent.  I would want to be with him even if he wasn't a really mean fucking sadist....

Luckily for me - he is.

But - in these seven years I didn't play casually, was CAREFUL before I submitted even in play, and was specific about the kind of man who I would be willing to surrender to.  I took this on as MY responsibility, and I held myself to be precious, and as a result, found someone who indeed treasures me and to whom I submit without a pause - and who takes this submission and his responsibility to me very seriously.

My point here is this:  the world, both straight and kinky, is full of head cases, messy people, etc etc. Certainly, BDSM chat rooms are filled with men who just don't like women because no one will date them - and pretending to be 'domly' makes them feel more empowered - but the world is full of strange people.  The 'nilla world is full of the same sort of men who are just kind of buttheads in the end.

  Maybe the important thing is to focus on finding people you admire, and looking for YOUR Master among those folks.

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RE: A dominant? - 9/16/2009 2:12:05 AM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: destiny2009

. All too often the so-called dominant is incapable of providing care and security in his own life, without thinking of doing so for another person.

In my experience this is why a Dominant would need the power exchange of a good submissive/service slave/slut/metawhore.....


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RE: A dominant? - 9/16/2009 7:39:05 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySunn

....a man may think he is something. he meets a woman and convinces her of the same. in turn she validates what has been stated, which allows him to believe what is not. thus he becomes.....


Very true indeed.


Yes, and we saw an excellent example of this on the forums this week.

In my opinion, for whatever that is worth, any old moe can be dominant. It is simply a personality trait. The crux lies in what avenue that dominance takes. If I wish to declare myself mistress material, or a male/female master material, then I believe I/we had damned well better have mastery of ourselves. That is where I see a huge chasm of weakness. Again displayed on the forums, not only in one thread in particular and the reactions to it, but over and over, by many different people. Even myself, I know for a fact, am not immune to it.

The key, again for me, is in acknowledging our weaknesses and striving to better ourselves. Admitting when we've been asshats instead of continuing to defend and attack, making excuses for our asshattedness. (new word )

We are ALL human and all imperfect. What one s-type will accept in their M type will be different than another. What I see as an intollerable weakness in another, will be different than what others see. Again, glaringly apparent on here, often.

As much as a dominant person needs to take personal responsibility for owning and gaining the qualities that make them a respectable Master or Mistress, I believe the submissive/slave also needs to take responsibility in who they call Master or Mistress and own that. Perhaps take more care in the initial choosing. Look with more realism than romantic rose coloured glasses.

I certainly don't have all the answers and I am certainly, one very imperfect individual. Maybe someday, when I grown up, I will be a real live mistress too. Until then, I will always be a dominant bossy batich. Just, hopefully, an open minded, ever learning, one.


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RE: A dominant? - 9/16/2009 9:30:50 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: destiny2009

I continue to be amazed , even after this long how many men who say they are true dominants are far from it. I would expect that a person who i will trust to care for me, guide me, keep me safe and manage our situations in life may exhibit these qualities in their own life. All too often the so-called dominant is incapable of providing care and security in his own life, without thinking of doing so for another person. Not able to hold down a job (even before the credit crunch), an environment that is so filthy and messy, you would not keep a dog or cat in there, a thin grasp on what reality or real life constitues etc etc. They then advertise themselves explaining that their ultimate role is to provide, care for and train their sub/slave. I say their training should start closer to home first.

It has nothing to do with being Dominant or not and everything to do with being lazy. The same goes for those on the other side of the whip too.

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RE: A dominant? - 9/16/2009 10:34:24 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
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If someone doesn't have their stuff in order, what happens when mine gets piled on top of theirs? Chaos. Anyone who has ever stood at the base of a mountain with a rockslide sign posted knows that impending chaos looming does not breed security, trust, or comfort. It makes everyone ready to move at the slightest tapping of a gravel tumbling. While I can stand there for awhile and enjoy the view or whatever, at some point I know I'm going to have to move. It may be sooner or later, but it is inevitable. The other possibility is that I never see the sign or the loose rocks on the face of the mountain and stand there blissfully unaware of the danger. While everyone else moved with the first rock rolled down, I didn't know what all the fuss was about. Before I know what's happened, I am buried in rubble, hurt, and very likely won't come out the other side the same again.

I don't think this really has so much to do with one true wayism so much as the desire for permanence. If it is a long term, stable relationship one wants within the framework of D/s or M/s, then that leadership position must be placed upon one who's together and solid enough to be unmoved by every little thing in life. Now I wouldn't have to get while the getting's good because I know that this is a safe place and firm under my feet to hold me up. If one isn't interested in such things, then it really matters little so long as they have some basic technical skills (the voice, the look, and perhaps some flogger swinging ability LOL). It is just important to know which you have, so that you aren't caught in the landslide when it comes (not if).

Longevity seems more the key to this than compatability. The only thing compatibility comes in for is to match up how long you want to live under the rockslide.

lovingpet

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