RE: Is Atheism a religion?

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NihilusZero -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 12:37:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: krosiema Atheism is the belief that "no god exists". Trying to semantically restructure a lack of belief as a belief is a clever linguistic trick, but it's not logical at all.

Kirata -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 1:53:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl i didnt ask either side to prove or disprove. i merely said that until one can, there is that grey area. On the subject of proof, there is a possibly interesting observation to be made. Some religions, without claiming you can prove to anyone else that there exists a reality that transcends the materialism with which we normally view the world, nevertheless offer a method, a discipline, by the practice of which, they claim, you can prove it to yourself. I am thinking of yoga, zazen, and so forth. Atheism offers no such path. You either accept its rationale or go fish. K.

MstrPBK -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 2:11:35 PM)
The simple answer: Atheism IS an religion. MstrPBK St. Pual, MN USA

tazzygirl -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 3:34:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl you said in the previous post... quote: I'll simply maintain people should avoid organised thought and doing things in it's name when there has been no realistic scrutiny of it. Could not the same be said about atheism? Yes exactly, I'm no great supporter of atheism. People should be a bit more imaginative about what is possible. quote: So many i have spoken too honestly say they have no idea about religion.. just that they believe there is no god.. so they stop there. If they have no idea, have they really scrutinized religion? I'd say most people are the other way around in that they look at the answers religion has offered and they have decided there is no god based on those now defunct religious truths. I don't need to disprove religion because it contradicts itself. I believe that if a god is capable of creating the universe it would easily be able to give a message to human beings so clear and concise that it can't be misinterpreted. If a god wants humans to live a certain way the instruction book to how they live is key to them being able to do this. God just does not care to present a clear message it seems so living as he says in a murky text is not my priority. And the fundamental argument to this is.... free will.

GotSteel -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 3:35:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Wrong, capitalizing it only implies a monotheistic deity, not the cgristian one...his name is Yahweh (or latinized into Jehovah). And Hindus, despite their apparent polytheism actually have a very strong and ancient monotheistic belief inherent in their scriptures, so they aren't included simply by capitalising the word. Your cultural bias is showing. The capitalizing of god comes from translations of the bible where Yahweh and Elohim are translated as God and Lord. So the name of the deity may be Yahweh, YHWH or some such thing (which is still more of a description than a proper name) but God is used as a proper name in versions of the bible such as the KJV. I'm also under the impression that Hinduism is pantheistic with polytheistic elements not monotheistic. However, the point I really wanted to make is that the wording is important. The wording that you used is effectively the same as one that certain Christian groups have been using to try and misrepresent atheism into being a religion and the reason I'm being picky with you on the wording. The "view is that there isn't a deity" can arguably be paraphrased to the belief that there isn't a deity, that definition excludes the segment of the atheist community sometimes referred to as weak atheism. A position that runs along these lines: quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig No. It is not a religion by your definition. There is no requirement of faith in an atheist view. One simply accepts what one can confirm, one accepts reality as perceivable without the addition of any non-observable details that require faith. I decided to check wiki's definition and found it to be a good one: Atheism can be either the rejection of theism,[1] or the position that deities do not exist.[2] In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.

tazzygirl -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 3:41:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Wrong, capitalizing it only implies a monotheistic deity, not the cgristian one...his name is Yahweh (or latinized into Jehovah). And Hindus, despite their apparent polytheism actually have a very strong and ancient monotheistic belief inherent in their scriptures, so they aren't included simply by capitalising the word. Your cultural bias is showing. The capitalizing of god comes from translations of the bible where Yahweh and Elohim are translated as God and Lord. So the name of the deity may be Yahweh, YHWH or some such thing (which is still more of a description than a proper name) but God is used as a proper name in versions of the bible such as the KJV. I'm also under the impression that Hinduism is pantheistic with polytheistic elements not monotheistic. However, the point I really wanted to make is that the wording is important. The wording that you used is effectively the same as one that certain Christian groups have been using to try and misrepresent atheism into being a religion and the reason I'm being picky with you on the wording. The "view is that there isn't a deity" can arguably be paraphrased to the belief that there isn't a deity, that definition excludes the segment of the atheist community sometimes referred to as weak atheism. A position that runs along these lines: quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig No. It is not a religion by your definition. There is no requirement of faith in an atheist view. One simply accepts what one can confirm, one accepts reality as perceivable without the addition of any non-observable details that require faith. I decided to check wiki's definition and found it to be a good one: Atheism can be either the rejection of theism,[1] or the position that deities do not exist.[2] In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities. So this is not correct? quote: In any debate, the burden of proof is properly on the person making a claim, of course. You say something is true, so you are the one who must demonstrate its truth. A typical atheist makes no claim about God, and he has no obligation to prove the non-existence of a god http://www.999ideas.com/atheism-not-a-belief.html

GotSteel -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 3:53:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Excellent posts, Kirata, Atheism is a specific belief system. No, the term atheism is a catch all that effectively includes a number of different belief systems, different philisophical views and the absence of a position. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY However, when atheists act and believe that they have the one-true-way of beliefs, it makes no operational difference. Firm I've yet to meet an atheist who thinks he knows the one true way though they probably exist, you're probably referring to the atheists who are confident that you're wrong.

GotSteel -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 4:03:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I always thought a Buddhist was one who considered Buddha to be a god? I suppose that would depend on the Buddhist and the definition of god.

GotSteel -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 4:18:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda The thing that always puzzles me is - why are so many religious people absolutely adamant that atheism is a religion? Why do you guys insist that it's a religion? Why is this so important to you? The scariest motive behind that goes something like: 1. Get atheism declared a religion. 2. Get evolution declared a belief of atheism. 3. Get evolution banned in schools as a religious belief.

tazzygirl -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 4:25:28 PM)
Many are homeschooled. Some say as many as 1 million or more. And they are taught what their parents wish them to learn.

GotSteel -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 4:25:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg Maybe stuff like tearing down 75 year old War Memorials put up by the VFW, is an example of "taking back" the country for atheism. Wouldn't taking the country back for atheism be something more like setting up a monument of Einstein giving Jesus the finger and then claiming it's a 75 year old War Memorial?

GotSteel -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 5:06:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg No, since the religous argument is not based on logic, it is not attackable by it. The characteristics of the "magical being" simply are, and are not subject to "logic". (note my concept of "God" doesn't exactly fit Magical being, but thats close enough to be functional in this discussion). The same sort of thing as the Wave particle duality of a photon. It makes no logical sense, but that's what the data shows. Data?

serviceforyou -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 5:09:57 PM)
I would say yes, atheism is a religion. It is just as difficult to prove there is no god as it is to prove that there is one. A religion is a set of beliefs based upon faith. Faith is a belief in something that can not be proven. So atheism, a belief that there is no god, is a belief based on something that can not be proven. It follows then that atheism is a faith-based set of beliefs. That satisfies my definition of atheism.

GotSteel -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 6:46:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: serviceforyou I would say yes, atheism is a religion. It is just as difficult to prove there is no god as it is to prove that there is one. A religion is a set of beliefs based upon faith. Faith is a belief in something that can not be proven. So atheism, a belief that there is no god, is a belief based on something that can not be proven. It follows then that atheism is a faith-based set of beliefs. That satisfies my definition of atheism. Defining someone else's argument and then disproving that which you've defined is a sort of fallacy called a straw man.

luckydawg -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 6:46:17 PM)
Yes, Got Steel, Data. Testing shows that photons exhibit characteristics of both Waves and Particles. Logically it makes no sense, but thats what we see. They call it a duality and move on. Logically it makes no sense.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 6:47:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Excellent posts, Kirata, Atheism is a specific belief system. No, the term atheism is a catch all that effectively includes a number of different belief systems, different philisophical views and the absence of a position. Perhaps. But, just as many people classify "Christianity" as a single religion, atheism has it flavors and movements just as Christianity does. However, as Christianity is primarily based on the belief of the death and resurrection of Jesus, atheism's defining characteristic is it's belief in the absence of a deity. And I disagree that atheism is based on "an absence of a position". Atheists hold the belief that the universe is absent a divine. Many call this "disbelief" and then attempt to say that atheism can't hold anything in common with religions, because all religions are based on "belief", but atheism is based on "disbelief", but this is simply atheistic apologetics. quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY However, when atheists act and believe that they have the one-true-way of beliefs, it makes no operational difference. Firm I've yet to meet an atheist who thinks he knows the one true way though they probably exist, you're probably referring to the atheists who are confident that you're wrong. Such as you, perhaps? I've read some of your posts on the subject. And you come across here as quite certain and sure of yourself and the rightness of your beliefs. I posit that your belief in the correctness and certainty of your point of view is the same as that of a religious person who has no doubts about their beliefs as well. Firm

tazzygirl -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 6:49:05 PM)
Since my questions were not answered, I will go with the "belief" that they are true.

GotSteel -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 7:25:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg The logic that something came from nothing, for no reason? straw man

serviceforyou -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 7:30:57 PM)
I saw this thread on the left side of the main window and thought I would post. I did not realize you guys were already on page 12 and that the argument I made had been made ad nauseum already. I simply offered how I defined religion, how I defined faith, and showed you how I came to the conclusion that atheism was a religion. That being said: thank you for your enlightening wiki link to the straw man logical fallacy. Did you notice that in order to have committed it I would have had to have A) purposefully misconstructed an opponent's argument and then B) refute it. Can you show me in my post where I did either of these? That being said, to dismiss my argument without showing how you care to refute is a logical fallacy known as a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring_(logical_fallacy)#Red_herring" target="_blank">red herring</a>.

GotSteel -> RE: Is Atheism a religion? (9/9/2009 7:34:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg Yes, Got Steel, Data. Testing shows that photons exhibit characteristics of both Waves and Particles. Logically it makes no sense, but thats what we see. They call it a duality and move on. Logically it makes no sense. Lol, no, I'm asking about data for the existence of magical beings.

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