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RE: The "Speach" - 9/7/2009 5:41:35 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		What good does that do? I suppose I have been through enough of those on these forums and realize:

1) Some posters, no matter the political affiliation will never admit they are wrong.
2) Starting topics to rub someone's nose in the fact they are wrong, rarely turn out productive and is just part of the partisan crap that is the foundation problem that causes all of this anyway. So it just adds to the cheerleading problem.
3) A few posters do admit they are wrong, and usually do so in the topics where they stated the wrong thing.
4) Some seem to just spoil for a fight, and/or seem to have a need to be "right". There seems to be some hidden point system to this game.

Partisan bullshit from both sides is what some of us see.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Perhaps she is hoping that some of those who were so adamantly opposed in the other thread on this subject to admit they were wrong? Perhaps one of them admitting that Obama really had no intent to indoctrinate anybody?



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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The "Speach" - 9/7/2009 5:44:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		and why are you so opposed to someone posting facts over partisan bs?

i dont expect anyone to admit they were wrong. im not sure anyone WAS wrong. when we trust people in power to tell us the truth, and they do not, then we can blame them. when we continue to trust those same people, then we can blame ourselves. until we know they havent told us the truth, we cant blame anyone.

sure i poked a bit of fun, as many often do, and i poked alot of it at myself.

at times, i do not understand you Master Orion.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The "Speach" - 9/7/2009 7:21:50 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline 		Am I wrong or did there seem to be a lot more of our esteemed brothers on the more conservative side of most issues but who are by no means partisan or dogmatic (they get upset if you refer to them as anything else and start crying and whining about how we lefty demoncrats don't treat them with respect) who posted on the dangers, indoctrination and political agenda that would be found in this speech than are posting now that the text of the speech is available for actual discussion? Where are at least the token protests that this version of the speech is only so inoffensive because of the vigilance and reasonable, calmly stated objections of our esteemed broth brothers on the more conservative side of most issues but who are by no means partisan or dogmatic, that the speech would be a socialist love fest teaching our children to worship Obama as their god and support him in his quest to become the first lifelong monarch of the United States.

I am kind of disappointed.


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The "Speach" - 9/7/2009 7:27:14 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

I am kind of disappointed.




Me too. It would have been a lot more entertaining that way. But I'm not surprised, are you?


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The "Speach" - 9/7/2009 7:43:17 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Perhaps she is hoping that some of those who were so adamantly opposed in the other thread on this subject to admit they were wrong? Perhaps one of them admitting that Obama really had no intent to indoctrinate anybody?



Oh, you Canadians.

So naive.

Conservatives here are never wrong, even when they might suspect it they just tune into Limbaugh or Beck to to remind themselves what their opinions really are.






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/7/2009 7:44:41 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The "Speach" - 9/7/2009 7:52:41 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

What good does that do? I suppose I have been through enough of those on these forums and realize:

1) Some posters, no matter the political affiliation will never admit they are wrong.
2) Starting topics to rub someone's nose in the fact they are wrong, rarely turn out productive and is just part of the partisan crap that is the foundation problem that causes all of this anyway. So it just adds to the cheerleading problem.
3) A few posters do admit they are wrong, and usually do so in the topics where they stated the wrong thing.
4) Some seem to just spoil for a fight, and/or seem to have a need to be "right". There seems to be some hidden point system to this game.

Partisan bullshit from both sides is what some of us see.




Uh, this country was founded on partisan bullshit and has been a part of the political landscape since.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The "Speach" - 9/7/2009 8:12:03 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		If you believe that is what partisan bullshit is, and it is representative of what many think, then that is likely the problem.

Hard to imagine the founders of this country going "neener, neener, neener ".


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Uh, this country was founded on partisan bullshit and has been a part of the political landscape since.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The "Speach" - 9/7/2009 9:29:42 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

If you believe that is what partisan bullshit is, and it is representative of what many think, then that is likely the problem.

Hard to imagine the founders of this country going "neener, neener, neener ".

You really should study the 1800 election before making such claims.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The "Speach" - 9/7/2009 9:38:59 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
they just tune into Limbaugh or Beck to to remind themselves what their opinions really are.



Why would they need to do that, RML?  They could always just read your posts. 

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The "Speach" - 9/8/2009 3:25:13 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		I've had no problem since they pulled the "How can I serve Obama?" movie and workbooks. And, as has been pointed out, that idiocy was not from the president at all. Presidents make speeches. It is what they do. This one is possibly the best at doing so in my lifetime. Let him talk to the kids about staying in school and working hard to get what you want out of life.

There are too many people who are trying to find fault with everything the president does. Sadly, there are just as many who are trying to condemn anyone who criticizes him. He is going to do things that people don't like. They have the right to complain just as you do. It neither makes them stupid or evil. This kind of thinking has caused problems in this country for too long.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The "Speach" - 9/8/2009 4:49:56 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I am not the one that usually gives out points, but this deserves 50 points. I was beginning to think my point and what I have a problem with was missed.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight
There are too many people who are trying to find fault with everything the president does. Sadly, there are just as many who are trying to condemn anyone who criticizes him.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The "Speach" - 9/8/2009 10:05:46 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

If you believe that is what partisan bullshit is, and it is representative of what many think, then that is likely the problem.

Hard to imagine the founders of this country going "neener, neener, neener ".


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Uh, this country was founded on partisan bullshit and has been a part of the political landscape since.




Honestly Orion, no sarcasm here, but if you review history you will find that is exactly the case.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The "Speach" - 9/8/2009 10:09:23 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
they just tune into Limbaugh or Beck to to remind themselves what their opinions really are.



Why would they need to do that, RML?  They could always just read your posts. 


Yes, consider me the Oracle of Collarme. 

Unfortunately, I don't think I'll achieve Buffet's wealth by doing so.



Edited to add:


And yes that was just a just a joke before I get slammed.







< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/8/2009 10:18:01 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The "Speach" - 9/8/2009 11:09:58 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		Didn't the bed wetters get their panties in a wad when Bush I gave his own "speach" back in 1991?

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The "Speach" - 9/8/2009 11:58:17 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

Didn't the bed wetters get their panties in a wad when Bush I gave his own "speach" back in 1991?


Well I asked my 30 year old and he has no memory of Bush giving a speach like that. He does remember them rolling in a tv when we were at war, but that's all. I don't remember it, but I probibly would have thought it was a waste of time also.

this is in response to the thread, not DomImus directly.
For me it has nothing to do with democrats or republicans and I get really sick of the us against them mentality on the boards lately. There are assholes on both sides and he did it first is not an excuse for anything.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The "Speach" - 9/8/2009 12:34:08 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

What good does that do? I suppose I have been through enough of those on these forums and realize:

1) Some posters, no matter the political affiliation will never admit they are wrong.
2) Starting topics to rub someone's nose in the fact they are wrong, rarely turn out productive and is just part of the partisan crap that is the foundation problem that causes all of this anyway. So it just adds to the cheerleading problem.
3) A few posters do admit they are wrong, and usually do so in the topics where they stated the wrong thing.
4) Some seem to just spoil for a fight, and/or seem to have a need to be "right". There seems to be some hidden point system to this game.

Partisan bullshit from both sides is what some of us see.


I wish this was on every thread put up, for everyone to think about, altho I dont think it will stop it, sometimes, yes one feels justified for making a point about others paranoia or their  "my way is the TWUE way" and it comes from both sides.
This thread is a minor tiff compared to some going on.




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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The "Speach" - 9/8/2009 1:57:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

Didn't the bed wetters get their panties in a wad when Bush I gave his own "speach" back in 1991?


First, i have no clue who is a bed wetter here, or was... but im willing to bet its almost equal across party lines.

Second, i dont recall that event, as i was not in school at the time nor did i have children in school.

Third, when i asked if any other President had spoken to children in the same fashion, the answer was repeatedly... no. So, which is it?

Now, to the article you posted. They investigated and found... nothing. The only difference i see here is that Bush was questioned after the fact. Obama was accused before the speech was even given.

The following gives a perfect example of what i mean....

quote:

In October 1991, the first President Bush staged a similar speech at Alice Deal Junior High, a high-achieving, racially diverse school in Washington, D.C.

Just as the Obama presidency is struggling now with its health care agenda, Bush was tangling with the Senate over the controversial Supreme Court nomination of Clarence Thomas and with allegations that he was paying scant attention to domestic issues.

In his speech, Bush extolled the virtues of studying, avoiding drugs and staying out of trouble. "What's so great about being stupid?" he said.

Records at his presidential library at Texas A&M show that the speech was broadcast live on CNN and public television, along with some radio networks.

Like the current education secretary, Arne Duncan, Bush's education chief, Lamar Alexander – now a senator from Tennessee – had sent letters to every school in the country urging them to let students watch the president speak.

Democrats blasted Bush for spending nearly $28,000 from the Education Department budget to hire a TV crew – apparently to ensure a more polished production than the networks would have ponied up for.

Alexander was forced to defend the expenditure at a congressional hearing: "We don't send messages by smoke signals anymore. ... We do it by microphone and camera," he said.

This was tame compared to the allegations zipping through the airwaves and blogs this week. Obama was compared, uncharitably, to Chairman Mao and to assorted fascists.

It's a fierce derision that Obama seems to inspire in his most vocal critics, some of whom have indulged conspiracy theories about his birthplace and his agenda. Similarly, Bill Clinton and the younger Bush saw increasing political nastiness as the country's partisan divisions cemented.

Cynthia Mostoller, whose eighth-grade history class hosted Bush for the 1991 speech, said a presidential visit was a thrill – even though Bush didn't connect nearly as well with students.

"Obama speaks to a whole different audience. Our kids absolutely love him," she said. "I've been quoting Obama ever since he told the boys to pull up their pants. I loved that."

Mostoller, still teaching at Deal and chairing its humanities department, has been looking forward to Obama's big speech to Congress on health care on Wednesday and didn't even realize he also planned an address to students; not everyone is caught up in the melee.

But she called it a wonderful idea.

"Every president needs to talk to the kids and have a message and speak from the heart. ... These are public schools. They're funded with public monies. It is a public institution," Mostoller said.

Presumably, she said, "he's not advocating a position of 'support me in Afghanistan.' "


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/090409dnnatobamawhy.3e9e86e.html

Let's keep this in perspective... on both sides. Bush was questioned on the cost... and if i have it right... at a time when school lunch programs were being cut.

The messages were the same.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The "Speach" - 9/8/2009 3:10:28 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I read it.   It was whiney.    Feel sorry PO me.

The televised speech was silly.   No need for it.   Telling kids they are nervous?    Silly.

There was almost nothing about personal responsibility in it.

When I was a kid- I walked 3 miles to attend school...and it was up hill- both ways!

I swear.  We do not need a culture that pities itself for being poor or any of the shortcomings he spoke of.

Pity will not put food on the table.

Leave the pep rallies to the gymnasium.

Teachers- at least in my region are well paid.  Why should they show a film?   They are there to interact.

The students spend the semester with the teachers and the peers NOT Obama!
So- it is those people who need to break the ice and those people who can decide if they are nervous!


His occupations were lame.   How about scientists? researchers?  Farmers?  Ranchers?      Not the lame things he mentioned.


I could write a better speech.    In fact- I did- back when I was in Americorps.    We (6 of us) were on the diversity team we did a presentation to the entire 6th grade classes in that county.  While the topic was diversity- we were forbidden from saying sexual orientation.   I blew up when we could not even answer any questions- only did I calm down when we would then refer the question to the school psychiatrist.  ....the punch line on our excercise was peer pressure.   I was an impressive achievement!!  Our work went on to be copied by other districts.   I still have the VHS of it.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The "Speach" - 9/8/2009 3:29:13 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		So it was ok for Bush, but not Obama. Its ok to dog one for doing something... and not dog the other. And because you think it was silly, why of course it should not be done... sorry... that doesnt work for me.

Children today are self centered, spoiled and feel they are entitled because mommy and daddy do so much to convince their kids they are friends... and not parents.

Obama wasnt born into money... or politics. And he became President... not only that.. the first Black President.

And as much as alot of people hate that, in the eyes of children, he is like a hero. Once children, especially non-white children, were told "you can be President too" and then they would hear their parents talking.. something along the lines of... "We will have a black President before we have a female one." This election gave them all back the belief that they could too.

I see no problem with that message up empowering children with the belief that they can truly be anything they wish to be if they work hard enough for it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The "Speach" - 9/8/2009 3:50:16 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		I don't see anything wrong with it either, tazzy.  I just watched the speech with my daughter.  Her teacher gave her the assignment to write two articles on it.  One on what (precisely) the president was telling them, and another on what they could/would/will endeavor to do to better themselves and our country.  I didn't find it silly or whiney at all.  I found it encouraging actually.  What the president told the kids today, we tell our kids everyday (that is, if we give a damn about them), we've been told by our parents, ourselves (again, if you did have the support mechanism of a responsible parent).  In fact, what he said was just a cold, hard fact of life that alot kids just don't get.  Nothing comes on a silver spoon, and for the few it does, its most likely not going to be you.  Wanting better in your life means working for it.  I don't see how any parent would have objections to anyone telling those things to their children.  If it does offend a parent, then I would have to question what it is the parent expects from their children.  (If they say nothing, in my opinion, they're breeding a spoiled, unresponsible brat who will always have a chip on his shoulder and his hand held out, because all his life nothing was ever expected from him, it was just what he can expect from others!)

Maybe its just a comprehension thing?  But frankly, I found that speech to be straight-forward....and true....and what I tell my daughter all the time.  Coming from the president, maybe she will think its not just me trying to torture her and make her "uncool".

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 60
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