ElanSubdued
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Everyone,
I'm going to address a side-topic that has occurred in the thread. The question of punishment "as punishment" versus punishment "as play/reward" comes up fairly often. Similarly, the question of "should a dominant use punishment or not" (in this case I allude to real punishment and not play) also comes up quite a bit.
On the later point and in regard to BDSM relationships, I tend to think using punishment is counterproductive and frequently unnecessary. Presumably adults are involved and displeasure and/or conflict can be resolved with communication. Myself, I have no desire to micro-manage a partner with cause and effect, do this or I'll punish you regimes. I've simply got better things to do with my time and, in all honesty, I think my partner has better things to do with her time as well. Either someone wants to be in the relationship and to do as they're requested or they don't. Now of course, people make mistakes, do things they know they shouldn't, and misinterpret expectations. While these can often have significant effect on a relationship, I don't think they're easily solved with punishment and indeed punishment may actually build resentment, thus making whatever problems exist, worse. So yes, I'm not a big fan of using punishment to resolve problems in a relationship. I'd much rather my partner explain what I did wrong, ask me for my feedback, and ask me if I understand why I've displeased them. Together we can come up with a solution so that the problem doesn't occur again or so that improvements can be made.
Sometimes a dominant may need to be part of the solution in providing advice, tools, structure, etc. Again, I think this is a far more effective way of obtaining results than simply using punishment as a deterrent. My fundamental belief is that people work better and achieve better results when they are positively motivated opposed to when they are negatively motivated with deterrence techniques. DesFIP summed up some of my thoughts here:
quote:
DesFIP:
How about not rewarding you by spending time doing things to you? Because even if you don't enjoy the toy, you will enjoy the attention. What about asking you to figure out why you did whatever, what caused that behavior and finding a solution to the problem? And rewarding you for doing right in the future.
Regarding the question of actual punishment versus play, I've somewhat ruled out punishment itself as an effective technique (at least in romantic relationships), but I do think there is a gray area in which it can be fun and/or useful.
While I don't necessarily personally identify with what ranja wrote (in that this approach would not be an effective way to communicate displeasure to me or to communicate to me at all), in many ways I can see why this would work for some submissives:
quote:
ranja:
...but now He is not uninterested and closed off anymore, now when i bug Him He can slap me and poke me and instead of Him trying to ignore me and getting totally fed up with me, and my mood spiraling even more downwards too, now He has the ability to bring me around, vent His own annoyance and break the awful stubbornness and single mindedness i suffer at times. To be sent to my room to 'think about things' would not work at all, i hate to be ignored, it would not be a 'good' punishment because it would not make things better as i would only get more depressed and angry and i feel my respect for the man i love shrivel when he hurts me so as to ignore me. And when He raises up and hits me He takes control of me and puts me in my place then i admire Him and submit and follow His lead... somehow some physical punishment allows me to get control of my behaviour and my mind set again... it lifts my mood, His too and problems get resolved much quicker.
What I see here is punishment used to refocus and to gain resolve. Lady Angelika's approach mirrors some of my thoughts too:
quote:
LadyAngelika:
This is my philosophy Focus50. But I come from the perspective that my boy is an adult and I'm not his mommy. From my perspective, kink is two adults that interact from complimentary power positions. If I am at odds with him for what ever reason (hurt, anger, annoyance, etc.) it is up to me to keep my cool and talk to him. If I need to cool off first, then he needs to have a time out, give me space to work through my anger. I'll work through my emotions and then we'll talk things through. Then, once we've resolved issues and both have voiced their opinion and we feel like we've worked through the issues, it is highly likely that we engage in "punishment", but it is delivered with a cool head. I've always considered punishment play as make-up sex for kinky people!
"Make-up sex for kinky people." Yes, absolutely. This is punishment used to put an issues aside, to indicate acceptance and resolve, and to reconnect the partners. I like this approach very much.
One thing Focus50, Acer49, and LadyAngelika discussed is the idea of taking a break from communication to think things through. I think this is okay, but as a submissive, one thing that DOES NOT work for me is cutting off all communication. For example, punishments of the ilk: no communication for two weeks. I understand that sometimes a timeout is needed for people to clear their minds and approach with a fresh perspective. However, when communication is cut off entirely, it's my experience that this tends to make any situation worse. I can't make amends/corrections without feedback from my partner. Likewise, misunderstandings that may be small to begin with, tend to grow extremely large when no communication takes place. Thus, I've often found non-communication approaches take what was a small problem and make that problem much, much bigger. Likewise, things that weren't problems to begin with can turn into problems when there is no communication. As a rule then, I avoid techniques that cut off communication (whether I'm on the bottom or the top).
Elan.
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