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Finally getting into what really matters in Health Reform - 9/9/2009 6:14:10 PM

OrionTheWolf

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" Over the next three years Wilson and other new internists will be steeped in what some people say is a radically different approach to doing medicine. A lot of experts are convinced that the Mayo model -- in which patient tests are minimized, doctor salaries are fixed, records are electronic and groups of doctors work together -- proves that health care reform isn't about who pays for care, but about how it is given. "

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/mayo-clinic-model-health-care-debate/story?id=8508106

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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 6:29:38 PM

servantforuse

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To do this nationwide, serious tort reform has to be in the mix. Doctors spend billions per year in tests that may or may not be needed. The do them to protect their ass.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 6:40:02 PM

tazzygirl

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I agree that they do. Lets not forget that many of these same Dr's should not be practicing and if the AMA policed their members better, some of these problems would not exist.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 6:47:08 PM

servantforuse

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The shark lawyers are out there willing to sue at the blink of an eye. They know it is less costly for a Dr. to settle a baseless case than to fight it in court. We need tort reform but it will not happen. Obama is in bed with the trial lawyers.

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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 6:51:36 PM

tazzygirl

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Prove he is...

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 5

RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:02:58 PM

servantforuse

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There is an old saying. ' don't bite the hand that feeds you'. Do some research on the percentage of law firms and private attornies that give money the DNC and it might open your eyes. In the state of Wisconsin it is upward of 70 %. They give that money for a reason. Payback.

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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:05:56 PM

tazzygirl

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"There are many good reasons for fixing medical malpractice. The system we have doesn’t adequately help patients who have legitimately been injured, many of whom never bother filing a claim. It freaks the hell out of doctors who overreact through doing extra, unnecessary tests and procedures -- known as “defensive medicine.” There’s a crazy-quilt of different regulations based on what state and specialty you’re in. It’s a mess.

But reducing health care costs is not a good reason for tort reform. And it won’t at all get a good score from the Congressional Budget Office, which says, “even a reduction of 25 percent to 30 percent in malpractice costs would lower health care costs by only about 0.4 percent to 0.5 percent, and the likely effect on health insurance premiums would be comparably small.” Granted, the CBO is somewhat pessimistic of savings in health care in general, but they’re backed up by the actuarial firm of Towers Perrin, which as Tom Baker says in an interview with the NY Times, pegs “litigation costs and malpractice insurance at 1 to 1.5 percent of total medical costs. That’s a rounding error. Liability isn’t even the tail on the cost dog. It’s the hair on the end of the tail.”

And those cure-all award caps do diddly. Quoth NPR, “But a review by the The Dallas Morning News found no evidence the malpractice savings had been passed on to consumers. And parts of Texas still have some of the nation's highest medical bills.” Moreover, Weiss Ratings found that malpractice insurance costs rose in a way that doesn’t at all justify faith in caps: over 10 years, premiums rose 35.9% in states with no caps and 48.2% in states with caps.

This is one of those articles of faith on how to reduce health care costs that falls apart when you start looking at numbers."

http://healthcare.change.org/blog/view/4_reasons_why_tort_reform_wont_be_part_of_health_reform

I have seen these numbers before... i have posted them here on the political boards.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:12:55 PM

barelynangel

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Being someone who works in med mal defense, most doctors DO in fact meet the standard of care in MANY med mal cases. TN passed a law last year wherein the Plaintiff HAS to have an expert PRIOR to filing suit. Our med mal cases have dropped by almost 90% since that law was passed. Now its PLAINTIFF's willing to settle with insurance companies rather than attempt to begin litigation. Most doctors out there tend to do their best in their field of practice, however, what occurs is patients want what they want and in the end they sign the consent form that informs them of everything that could go wrong, and when it does they want to blame the doctor.

Med Mal insurance for most of our doctors is sky high, and i personally don't blame doctors for wanting to cover their ass by covering all basis because if something medically does go wrong, they like to blame the doctor, hospital etc. I can guarantee you most Doctors will NOT work wherein their salary goes down while their med mal insurance is still sky high and the freedom of frivolously suing is still very much real and in play.

Sorry but its not LAWYERS who are the issue, its the people who are seeking lawyers because they believe they can get something for free or money simply by saying a doctor did something to me. While it sucks to have this new law cause our med mal cases have fallen dramatically, its a good law because its usually the expert testimony that makes or breaks the cases and if the Plaintiff cannot find an expert to testify for them then there is no ability for litigation.

In the end, a big concept that will have to be addressed prior to solidifying the health care plan will be med mal and the concept of suing for any and every little thing many times frivolously when its simply a side-effect that occured that the patient was WELL advised of and signed the consent form.

So its not "shark" lawyers, they are ONLY in business because people are looking for money. It amazes me how people blame the lawyers lol when its PEOPLE who go to the lawyers because the people feel they are entitled to monetary gain. I mean i have never seen people settle a case for free services or simply having the issue fixed by someone else etc. Nope, they want gain.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 9/9/2009 7:23:31 PM >

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:14:44 PM

servantforuse

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Real tort reform will not hamper legitimate legal claims and lawsuits. It will put a halt to the ambulance chasers. I feel better knowing that you get so much info from the totally unbiased, government funded, left leaning NPR.

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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:19:10 PM

tazzygirl

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Then take it from the CBO itself...

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=4968&type=0

either way, the numbers dont add up to what you are trying to imply. Yes, tort reform needs to be addressed. As a part of health care reform, it wont make a dent.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 10

RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:21:42 PM

barelynangel

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servantforuse, i just want to clarify something here -- you keep wanting to blame the LAWYERS, you do realize its CLIENTS behind those lawyers who are the ones looking for the money right? I know its EASY to blame the lawyers, but seriously, you need to broaden your horizons if you think its LAWYERS who are chasing down people in most cases, its people believing they are entitled to retire off of a lawsuit. Lawyers advise and yeah, they will be honest as to what they can probably GET for a case due to experience of trying same, however, its the CLIENT that says ohhh yeah sign me up. (PS most clients have to sign a retainer agreement which means they are fully advised of what possible outcomes including a basic damages award they can get in 1) trial and most importantly, 2) settlement possibilities.

So please, let's place the responsibility where it lies == ON THE PEOPLE WHO WANT COMPENSATION OF MONEY. If it wasn't for their greed lol lawyers wouldn't have a job. But they do because people want a hand out in most cases.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to servantforuse)

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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:26:31 PM

servantforuse

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If it wouldn't make a difference, why didn't he address it in the speech tonight ? I'm thinking that it does make a difference or he would have done so. It's a mute point anyway. Max Baucaus, D, Montana, said this afternoon that the 'public option' is dead on arrival in the Senate. It will not even be brought up for a vote.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:32:30 PM

tazzygirl

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This is the same man planning to promote his own health care bill?

http://www.startribune.com/politics/57768372.html

His plan. And I can assure you, once the cut to Medicare is known, it wont pass.

quote:

WHO'S COVERED: Around 97 percent of Americans. Illegal immigrants would not receive coverage.

COST: About $900 billion over 10 years.

HOW'S IT PAID FOR: Fees on insurance companies, drug makers, medical device manufacturers and insurers. Tax of 35 percent on insurance plans costing above $8,000 for individuals and $21,000 for families, applied to premium amounts over the threshold. Cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. A fee on employers whose workers receive government subsidies to help them pay premiums. Fines on those who fail to get coverage, up to $950 for individuals, $3,800 for families.

And this is the man im supposed to believe?

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 9/9/2009 7:38:32 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 13

RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:43:01 PM

servantforuse

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The plan on the table is dead. Start over and this time involve those on the other side of the aisle. It might even have a chance of passing.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 14

RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:46:51 PM

tazzygirl

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According to one man. And i state now that i am not following a party line here. I will believe its dead when its buried... nor will i listen to those who have ulterior motives.

Learn to listen with your brain, not just your ears.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 15

RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:53:30 PM

servantforuse

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I think that you will see very shortly that the public option will indeed be six feet under. Even the democrats will not go there. Remember they have the votes that are veto proof in both houses. They will not risk losing an election in 2010. If they like the bill they should vote for it.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:55:19 PM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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I really adore the clarity of your chrystal ball.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 17

RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:55:22 PM

Elisabella

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-FR-

IMO the only viable option for US nationalized health care is to do it like we do minimum wage - pass a Federal law stating the minimums states must incorporate, then each state can decide if they want to do more than that. It's ridiculous to think plans that work in the EU countries/Canada/Britain/AU can work in the US when each of those other nations has the population the size of a single US state.

Pass a minimum coverage law and let the states decide if they want to offer more (and adjust their state taxes accordingly) and make sure that all non-emergency care can only be given in a person's state of residency, and they might have a shot at a decent plan.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 7:57:15 PM

tazzygirl

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And what of Medicare patients? In resort areas, they are called "snowbirds" because they spend their winters in the south and the summers in the north.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 19

RE: Finally getting into what really matters in Health ... - 9/9/2009 8:23:36 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Okay..... Uh the article shows that a well managed medical facility, can in fact bring higher quality health care with lower costs. The malpractice thing set aside for the moment, some of the other reasons that Doctors order more tests, is when they have a financial interest in the hospital. I would have to research it again, but there have been studies that suggest that a doctor that has a financial interest in a hospital orders test in many scenarios, almost three times as often as a doctor that does not.

There are many other things that contribute to the high costs of health care.

So what do people think of the Mayo Clinic model for how a hospital should be run?

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 20

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