RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (Full Version)

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FatDomDaddy -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/14/2009 11:29:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Besides, who is this Jesus person?

Yeshuah ben Yoseph if you insist. Apparently some sort of minor rebel in Judea in the first century. Would be completely forgotten but he somehow got made into the central figure of a Roman style mystery cult.


From Who's lifetime you seem to have forgot to add, the planet uses to measure time before but not after.




Arpig -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/15/2009 12:23:49 AM)

quote:

When Bush discovered he could get a majority vote, or close to it by saying he was christian and was doing what god told him to do. (just like Hitler.)
Actually Hitler was very anti-Christian,and very anti-religion in general. he often referred to History and Providence calling him,but I don't recall him ever being quoted as saying that God called him. The Nazis actively suppressed religions of all types,though they did promote a vague neo-nordic sort of Wagnerian cult of mythology...but they never went so far as to claim it was based on any reality.

Please people, if you refuse to learn anything about Hitler and the Nazis then kindly refrain from using him/them in your arguments...it only makes you look dumb.




Arpig -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/15/2009 12:33:06 AM)

quote:

From Who's lifetime you seem to have forgot to add, the planet uses to measure time before but not after.
No FatDom, nobody has forgotten it, seeing as you have made it the entire content of your contribution to this thread since nobody said it. What was said is that it was (and is) the common year-numbering system in use at the time, and it in no way implies Christianity on the part of those who used it. As was pointed out, Jews signed contracts with the words "in the year of our Lord" in them, without having to convert or cease to be Jews.

The other point made was that Jesus was not born in 1AD (nor in 1BC), while nobody is exactly certain when he was born, the general consensus amongst scholars of all religious persuasions is that it wasn't either of those dates, and that is was likely 4 BC or 5BC (nor was it Dec.25...just in case you weren't aware of that as well).

Now that we have accepted these basic facts, can we please move on with the discussion and leave the BC/AD red herring to rot in the sun?




Lostkitten3 -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/15/2009 6:44:55 AM)

ACtually, it was a German friend of mine who's family lived through World War II who said that Hilter told the people of Germany repeatedly that it was God who told him to do what he was doing. That he would be able to put a chicken in every pot. He was a fabulous orator and told the Germans exactly what they needed to hear, since most were so poor all they had left was their religion.

I never once said that Hitler was religious, nor did I say bush was religious, but they both used Christianity to justify what they did to other religions.

Please Arpig, just because it isn't quoted in a history book doesn't mean it didn't happen. The winners write the books.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

When Bush discovered he could get a majority vote, or close to it by saying he was christian and was doing what god told him to do. (just like Hitler.)
Actually Hitler was very anti-Christian,and very anti-religion in general. he often referred to History and Providence calling him,but I don't recall him ever being quoted as saying that God called him. The Nazis actively suppressed religions of all types,though they did promote a vague neo-nordic sort of Wagnerian cult of mythology...but they never went so far as to claim it was based on any reality.

Please people, if you refuse to learn anything about Hitler and the Nazis then kindly refrain from using him/them in your arguments...it only makes you look dumb.





Lostkitten3 -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/15/2009 6:55:24 AM)

It became popular again, once Bush was n office. I can tell you that my Mom and her friends were casual Christians until the "Crusade" in Iraq against Muslim terrorists (which is literally how that group of that generation thinks about it, because that is what Bush and the T.V. told them to think.)


ANd focus on the Family became really popular, and my Muslim neighbor had to quit going to school because she was taunted.

Yes, Bush made being Christian popular again, in America.

Laugh away
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wow, christianity became popular just because Bush was in office. Thanks for pointing that out... LOL




Lostkitten3 -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/15/2009 6:58:04 AM)

Tazzy,
I have a very close friend who homeschools. She is a part of a homeshchool group that meets weekly to have group activities. At least 70% of those people homeschool for religious reasons.

Maybe it's the way the question is asked that the results of your poll are skewed. I can speak from personal experience.




tazzygirl -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/15/2009 7:02:06 AM)

I also homeschooled my own son. Half those who homeschooled were religious. Half were there because of discontent with the school system in our area. We also met with a group to do things like teach current events, musical instruments, ect... in the common rooms of a church. That doesnt mean they were all there for religious reasons.




Arpig -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/15/2009 10:30:11 AM)

quote:

ACtually, it was a German friend of mine who's family lived through World War II who said that Hilter told the people of Germany repeatedly that it was God who told him to do what he was doing. That he would be able to put a chicken in every pot. He was a fabulous orator and told the Germans exactly what they needed to hear, since most were so poor all they had left was their religion.

I never once said that Hitler was religious, nor did I say bush was religious, but they both used Christianity to justify what they did to other religions.

Please Arpig, just because it isn't quoted in a history book doesn't mean it didn't happen. The winners write the books.

OK, thats a little different than what you said before...the first time you said it in a manner that implied Hitler claimed to be a Christian. As I said, Hitler often referred to "Providence"or"History" calling him to do this and that,but I honestly don't recall him saying God. Now granted I have read translations of his speeches,so that could be the source of the difference.




GotSteel -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/15/2009 5:45:39 PM)

"Hitler knew, through the constant invocation of the God the Lord (German: Herrgott) or of providence (German: Vorsehung), to make the impression of a godly way of thought."[8] He used his "ability to simulate, even to potentially critical Church leaders, an image of a leader keen to uphold and protect Christianity," according to Ian Kershaw. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_beliefs#Public_statements




HatesParisHilton -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/15/2009 10:38:02 PM)

forget Adolf  (ugly little fuckstick anyway, that he was).

To the OP:

the question was "When"?

the answer (as I stated) has been, and always will be, "Always".

If you want to discuss why that ain't a great idea, hey, bro, I am here for you.

But let's not for one second PRETEND that Yankeeland has EVER been ANYTHING else but a Christian (of one sort or another) nation.

Again, I am not saying that's RIGHT, but don't ask "when" when you really seem to be asking "should it have been this way and do we want it to remain this way henceforce?".




tazzygirl -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/16/2009 5:58:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

It became popular again, once Bush was n office. I can tell you that my Mom and her friends were casual Christians until the "Crusade" in Iraq against Muslim terrorists (which is literally how that group of that generation thinks about it, because that is what Bush and the T.V. told them to think.)


ANd focus on the Family became really popular, and my Muslim neighbor had to quit going to school because she was taunted.

Yes, Bush made being Christian popular again, in America.

Laugh away
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wow, christianity became popular just because Bush was in office. Thanks for pointing that out... LOL



I cannot go by your mom and her friends being casual armchair christians until Bush went on his rampage against muslims. makes me question both their christian views and their ability to be lead by someone else.

How do i measure the "christian movement"? simple... the PTL and Jim Baker. By 1980, he had built PTL in Fort Mills SC. I dont need a source. He also embezzeled quite a bit of money, lied to those who donated and bought into the time share scheme... but he also created something that polarized many, many christians across the country... in a good way.

Christianity wasnt a lack luster afair at that time. Now, since both of the Bush Presidents were in office after that time, im curious as to how this movement, that could produce a million dollars in donations each week, build a theme park (PTL), host a satellite system that broadcasted their show 24/7, was the product of either Bush?

And that is why i laughed... not at the people... but at your assumption.




StrangerThan -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/16/2009 7:18:41 AM)

Again, another wild stab at one of your topics Spinner. If nothing else, you do keep the debate pot stirred.

I think the misleading part of your topic is "become". It implies a transition from one state to another, namely from a non-Christian state to a Christian state when the vast majority of European types who migrated to America were some form of Christian already.

There is much debate and ado about the founding fathers. While their contribution shouldn't be lessened, none of what they accomplished would have been possible without the support, efforts, and lives of that same Christian majority. Had any of them espoused even a 10th of the anti-Christian rhetoric that floats around this type of topic, there's little doubt in my mind that any Constitution we might now have, would be missing their signature and we'd most likely be footnoting them in history as the man strung up in a town square somewhere.

Ain't saying it's right, just how it is.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/16/2009 9:06:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Besides, who is this Jesus person?

Yeshuah ben Yoseph if you insist. Apparently some sort of minor rebel in Judea in the first century. Would be completely forgotten but he somehow got made into the central figure of a Roman style mystery cult.


Well as long as you are using the proper translations...

How about the full proper Latin one for AD...

Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi ("In the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ").





Arpig -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/16/2009 11:43:40 AM)

Thanks GotSteel, I stand corrected. Either the translations I read were not accurate or I just read the wrong ones, thanks again...its always good to learn something new.




Arpig -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/16/2009 11:47:55 AM)

quote:

Well as long as you are using the proper translations...

How about the full proper Latin one for AD...

Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi ("In the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ").
Sure FDD,  no problem, however I must ask just what it proves. Nobody is questioning the literal meaning of the usage, just its usefulness in determining the religion of those who affix their names to a document with that term in it.




Lostkitten3 -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/16/2009 8:11:52 PM)

Hmmm, the 80's that was Reagan Era, and Bush VP.
And most people thought the whole Jim Baker thing was nutty nutjobs. Easily led and easily throwing their money away. Remember the Tshirts with makeup stains that said "I ran into Tammy Fae Baker?" They were a public JOKE. And then he was caught cheating and lost his status. Coke was the religion at that time due to the war on drugs, which was actually a war on pot, because the Bushes and Reagans had invested in the pharm companies that made the chemicals needed to refine cocaine and heroine, and wanted to make more money, and the pot growers in S.A. weren't sharing....but I digress.

Bush made being CHristian, and more importantly Anti Muslim, a necessary trait for all Americans. If you aren't with him you are with the terrorists. It was a war god told him to engage in. He made being Christian a requirement for patriotism, because most CHristians do blindly follow based on faith, instead of reality.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

It became popular again, once Bush was n office. I can tell you that my Mom and her friends were casual Christians until the "Crusade" in Iraq against Muslim terrorists (which is literally how that group of that generation thinks about it, because that is what Bush and the T.V. told them to think.)


ANd focus on the Family became really popular, and my Muslim neighbor had to quit going to school because she was taunted.

Yes, Bush made being Christian popular again, in America.

Laugh away
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wow, christianity became popular just because Bush was in office. Thanks for pointing that out... LOL



I cannot go by your mom and her friends being casual armchair christians until Bush went on his rampage against muslims. makes me question both their christian views and their ability to be lead by someone else.

How do i measure the "christian movement"? simple... the PTL and Jim Baker. By 1980, he had built PTL in Fort Mills SC. I dont need a source. He also embezzeled quite a bit of money, lied to those who donated and bought into the time share scheme... but he also created something that polarized many, many christians across the country... in a good way.

Christianity wasnt a lack luster afair at that time. Now, since both of the Bush Presidents were in office after that time, im curious as to how this movement, that could produce a million dollars in donations each week, build a theme park (PTL), host a satellite system that broadcasted their show 24/7, was the product of either Bush?

And that is why i laughed... not at the people... but at your assumption.




Lostkitten3 -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/16/2009 8:15:42 PM)

Except for all those Jewish immigrants, and the founding fathers that INSISTED on a separation of church and state...

And started with "We hold these truths to be self evident" instead of saying they are god given rights

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

Again, another wild stab at one of your topics Spinner. If nothing else, you do keep the debate pot stirred.

I think the misleading part of your topic is "become". It implies a transition from one state to another, namely from a non-Christian state to a Christian state when the vast majority of European types who migrated to America were some form of Christian already.

There is much debate and ado about the founding fathers. While their contribution shouldn't be lessened, none of what they accomplished would have been possible without the support, efforts, and lives of that same Christian majority. Had any of them espoused even a 10th of the anti-Christian rhetoric that floats around this type of topic, there's little doubt in my mind that any Constitution we might now have, would be missing their signature and we'd most likely be footnoting them in history as the man strung up in a town square somewhere.

Ain't saying it's right, just how it is.




thornhappy -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/16/2009 8:18:37 PM)

I personally appreciated being responsible for 9/11 because I didn't believe in the Falwell/Robertson god, was a feminist, and had been wiccan in the past.  Oh yeah, and liberal to boot.  I'm a real threat to the nation.




StrangerThan -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/16/2009 9:51:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

Except for all those Jewish immigrants, and the founding fathers that INSISTED on a separation of church and state...

And started with "We hold these truths to be self evident" instead of saying they are god given rights

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

Again, another wild stab at one of your topics Spinner. If nothing else, you do keep the debate pot stirred.

I think the misleading part of your topic is "become". It implies a transition from one state to another, namely from a non-Christian state to a Christian state when the vast majority of European types who migrated to America were some form of Christian already.

There is much debate and ado about the founding fathers. While their contribution shouldn't be lessened, none of what they accomplished would have been possible without the support, efforts, and lives of that same Christian majority. Had any of them espoused even a 10th of the anti-Christian rhetoric that floats around this type of topic, there's little doubt in my mind that any Constitution we might now have, would be missing their signature and we'd most likely be footnoting them in history as the man strung up in a town square somewhere.

Ain't saying it's right, just how it is.



I never said there weren't other immigrants. Eye roll. What I said, and will stand by is that the majority of those who immigrated from European countries were of some type of Christian makeup. As for the founding fathers INSISTING, they most certainly did, but they spent some time explaining to said Christians how that was not going to negatively impact their faith nor practice thereof.

Like it, hate it, love it, an overwhelming majority in the US identify themselves as Christians and always have. Absolutely nothing this country has ever accomplished would have been possible without them, including the formation of the state in the first place.





tazzygirl -> RE: So when did America become a "Chrisitian" country (9/16/2009 10:00:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

Hmmm, the 80's that was Reagan Era, and Bush VP.
And most people thought the whole Jim Baker thing was nutty nutjobs. Easily led and easily throwing their money away. Remember the Tshirts with makeup stains that said "I ran into Tammy Fae Baker?" They were a public JOKE. And then he was caught cheating and lost his status. Coke was the religion at that time due to the war on drugs, which was actually a war on pot, because the Bushes and Reagans had invested in the pharm companies that made the chemicals needed to refine cocaine and heroine, and wanted to make more money, and the pot growers in S.A. weren't sharing....but I digress.

Bush made being CHristian, and more importantly Anti Muslim, a necessary trait for all Americans. If you aren't with him you are with the terrorists. It was a war god told him to engage in. He made being Christian a requirement for patriotism, because most CHristians do blindly follow based on faith, instead of reality.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

It became popular again, once Bush was n office. I can tell you that my Mom and her friends were casual Christians until the "Crusade" in Iraq against Muslim terrorists (which is literally how that group of that generation thinks about it, because that is what Bush and the T.V. told them to think.)


ANd focus on the Family became really popular, and my Muslim neighbor had to quit going to school because she was taunted.

Yes, Bush made being Christian popular again, in America.

Laugh away
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wow, christianity became popular just because Bush was in office. Thanks for pointing that out... LOL



I cannot go by your mom and her friends being casual armchair christians until Bush went on his rampage against muslims. makes me question both their christian views and their ability to be lead by someone else.

How do i measure the "christian movement"? simple... the PTL and Jim Baker. By 1980, he had built PTL in Fort Mills SC. I dont need a source. He also embezzeled quite a bit of money, lied to those who donated and bought into the time share scheme... but he also created something that polarized many, many christians across the country... in a good way.

Christianity wasnt a lack luster afair at that time. Now, since both of the Bush Presidents were in office after that time, im curious as to how this movement, that could produce a million dollars in donations each week, build a theme park (PTL), host a satellite system that broadcasted their show 24/7, was the product of either Bush?

And that is why i laughed... not at the people... but at your assumption.



They were a huge joke... but they did manage to pull together a vast number of people,,, and they didnt need threats, lies or inundos to do so. If your mother, and people like her, were "casual" until Bush made it "mandatory" to hate... sorta says alot right there, huh.

Oh, and Reagan was in office in 1981... after PTL and the park was built.

Heritage USA opened in 1978, and by 1986 was one of the top vacation destinations in the nation, behind only Walt Disney World and Disneyland, attracting nearly 6 million visitors annually and employing around 2,500 people. However, after Jim Bakker's legal and personal troubles made headlines starting in 1987, Heritage USA closed shortly after Hurricane Hugo caused severe damage to many of the buildings in September 1989.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritage_USA

Sorta shoots the Bush theory.

Your comment...

quote:

Yes, Bush made being Christian popular again, in America


is not what was happening. Bush made it ok to hate.... not to be christian.




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