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RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/12/2009 1:43:50 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		That they were taught by the right. It doesn't matter, they are permitting their slow undoing........

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/12/2009 4:13:39 PM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Yup. In the end, they will only have themselves to blame for their troubles. They never grew as a party, they never tried to represent a wider demographic. Just look at the shot they did of Joe Wilson pointing his finger at Obama... look at all the faces in those seats surrounding him. All white. All older. All boasting salaries in the six figures. All of them probably getting campaign contributions from the insurance companies. Many of them belonging to organizations (like Wilson) which have racist underpinnings.

In the end, I think what we are hearing from the GOP with all this mental diarreha they are spewing, are the pained bleats of an elephant trapped in a tar pit and which is slowly being pulled down to it's doom.

I don't know what kind of conservative, moderate party might rise to take it's place. But I hope it happens soon. I'd actually like to have a centrist party in this country. Something I could actually vote for.

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RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/12/2009 6:00:25 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

I'd actually like to have a centrist party in this country. Something I could actually vote for.


....you have one, the Democrats. About the only scale that puts them on the left is the uniquely American one.
Essentially the Democrats are to the left of Winston Churchill, the Republicans to the right. Which would make Democrats left wing only if one assumed Churchill was a Centrist.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/13/2009 11:01:17 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales


That's right, Heritic. Deny anything is wrong with your party of choice. Take any criticism or thought on how current errors and weaknesses can be fixed. Keep up with the "my party is so much better than your party" line.

People like you are a better friend to the Democrats than people like me.



I meant to get back to this completely inaccurate portrayal of my position earlier, Spinner.  I will sugest to you, as  have suggested to others, that you try actually understanding my positions, rather than assigning them, chinese menu style, and subsequently replying to your own delusions.

There is plenty wrong in the Republican party, Spinner.  The battle between social conservatism and fiscal conservatism doesn't always look good for my side.  Bush II ultimately turned out to be a pro-life Democrat in how he ran the country, yet the stank stuck to the brand I have chosen to endorse.

A friend to the Democrat party?  Hardly.  They have learned not to bother calling me anymore.  I left with a hearty "fuck you, and the horse you rode in on" a few years back.  They are whores, Spinner, without an actual value in the bucket, other than the notion that the power should all be theirs.  They have it now, and still are like a dom who makes a lot of noise with the whip, to cover the fact that his dick hasn't been hard in decades.



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RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/13/2009 9:17:03 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
They are whores, Spinner, without an actual value in the bucket, other than the notion that the power should all be theirs.  They have it now, and still are like a dom who makes a lot of noise with the whip, to cover the fact that his dick hasn't been hard in decades.

Golden!

Abso-fucking-lutely golden!

Firm

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/13/2009 9:23:43 PM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

I'd actually like to have a centrist party in this country. Something I could actually vote for.


....you have one, the Democrats. About the only scale that puts them on the left is the uniquely American one.
Essentially the Democrats are to the left of Winston Churchill, the Republicans to the right. Which would make Democrats left wing only if one assumed Churchill was a Centrist.

Philo,

I respect you.

I do think, however, that this shows one of the basic issues that I've occasionally discussed about how the American civilization is different in a very basic way from European civilization.

Comparing the American Left to the European Left is kinda like comparing apples to oranges.

The political and cultural beliefs of the US and most any Western European (and Canadian) population are very different. We start at different points, and have different assumptions about many things.

We have a vague similarity of terms, and a shared philosophical history, but the US is radically different in our expectations, our goals, our beliefs and our level of acceptance of certain types of governance.

Part of the current issue of dissent in the US is that the ruling party is attempting to use basically European models that do not fit.

They will fail. I suspect the internet term "massive fail" will apply.

Let's reopen the issue in about 3 more years.

Firm

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/13/2009 9:48:29 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

Let's reopen the issue in about 3 more years. ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY



When the republicans do regain power in this country, and they will as the pendulum swings in our system, will you then be  tolerant if they lie, shout, demonize and ridicule because the republicans have joined them in the muck? Or will you rather say "well you did it when we were in charge, we did it when you were in charge so now we're even and should just start being reasonable?" or will you continue your rages just to make sure that never again are we in the grip of the evil which is the left wing?

I want to know...because in 7 years, we might just have a republican back in the white house.


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/13/2009 10:27:05 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		It's an issue of whether or not there's an absolute and measurable scale of left wing/right wing.
Essentially it appears to me that you're arguing for a sort of political relativism. If a group in the US is considered left of the norm there then they're socialists. Problem is, there's a real and measurable definition of socialism, and i don't think a party that espouses that position has ever been close to power in the US.
US politics, by the dictionary terms, is not left wing, but moderate to right wing.

Now, the thing is, that's America's choice. It has a democratic process and it simply has never elected a left wing party to power. However, when we see posters describing Obama as a socialist, this is seen as immature posturing by anyone who actually knows what the definition of socialism is.


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/13/2009 11:08:31 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

It's an issue of whether or not there's an absolute and measurable scale of left wing/right wing.
Essentially it appears to me that you're arguing for a sort of political relativism. If a group in the US is considered left of the norm there then they're socialists. Problem is, there's a real and measurable definition of socialism, and i don't think a party that espouses that position has ever been close to power in the US.
US politics, by the dictionary terms, is not left wing, but moderate to right wing.

Now, the thing is, that's America's choice. It has a democratic process and it simply has never elected a left wing party to power. However, when we see posters describing Obama as a socialist, this is seen as immature posturing by anyone who actually knows what the definition of socialism is.



Water boils at 100 C at sea level. At high attitudes, the temperature must be higher.

Politically, America is at sea level, Europe is in the Himalayas.

Different boiling points.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/13/2009 11:20:02 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

What you mean is ... that republicans are starting to use some of the same tactics that the left has always used.

Firm


Aged wine is a wonderful thing, an aging whine is not.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/14/2009 12:02:57 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

What you mean is ... that republicans are starting to use some of the same tactics that the left has always used.

Firm


Aged wine is a wonderful thing, an aging whine is not.


That the best you got?

*snorts*

Firm

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/14/2009 2:05:19 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		Ok, bad joke, but you have to admit this conservative everybody-is-picking-on-me nonsense is getting old.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/14/2009 8:20:22 AM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline 		There's a lot here that's getting old.

XI


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/14/2009 3:54:45 PM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		The thing is, a fact which cannot be denied, is that when the Dems decried the evils, the lies and the abuses of the Bush Administration... they turned out to have the facts on their side.

In three years, will we look back and wipe the sweat off our brows, realizing how close we came to Obama turning the US into a "nazi socialist collective, which will take away your guns, and tell you how to live!"* I sincerely doubt it. At this point, I'm just happy that Obama and the Dems were able to pull us all back from the brink of economic collapse.

*Glenn Beck, all last month. (paraphrased)

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/15/2009 11:33:11 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

It's an issue of whether or not there's an absolute and measurable scale of left wing/right wing.
Essentially it appears to me that you're arguing for a sort of political relativism. If a group in the US is considered left of the norm there then they're socialists. Problem is, there's a real and measurable definition of socialism, and i don't think a party that espouses that position has ever been close to power in the US.
US politics, by the dictionary terms, is not left wing, but moderate to right wing.

Now, the thing is, that's America's choice. It has a democratic process and it simply has never elected a left wing party to power. However, when we see posters describing Obama as a socialist, this is seen as immature posturing by anyone who actually knows what the definition of socialism is.



Water boils at 100 C at sea level. At high attitudes, the temperature must be higher.

Politically, America is at sea level, Europe is in the Himalayas.

Different boiling points.

Firm



...however water is H2O regardless of altitude.  Socialism has a fixed definition, not a relative one.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/15/2009 8:57:06 PM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Oh, BTW Firm, it's "Epic Fail"... you know, the term you tried to reference earlier, the one they use on the "series of tubes" * (aka the internet)


*actual GOP term for the internet

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/16/2009 7:27:24 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

The thing is, a fact which cannot be denied, is that when the Dems decried the evils, the lies and the abuses of the Bush Administration... they turned out to have the facts on their side.


We all know that was not the case. Newscasters were making false documents which were then pointed to as proof even after they were proven fake. People still swear up and down that the elections were stolen twice because their side didn't win. People didn't care whether the attacks were true or not, they just wanted to hang Bush and Co out to dry.
I'm not saying that Bush wasn't a fuckup or that he didn't make mistakes. There was no need to make up bullshit about him but it was done anyway. I just find it amazing that suddenly, the party that embraced every lie about him was "always truthful" in their protests. Face it people, both parties are built on lie... lies about the other side, lies about what they have and haven't done and lies to the people about how much they care.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/16/2009 6:57:05 PM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Recently Arpig said that my credibility was being damaged by my insistance that the GOP attacks on Obama were racially motivated. Well, I've been down that road before: with the lies Bush told about WMD, about the program or torture going on, about the wiretapping... (of course, had I listened more to the rumors about Cheany and his wanting a special ops "death squad" under his command, I probably would have brought that up earlier too... but even I had a hard time believing that one... which later turned out to be all too true.) So you know, feel free to question my cred, Arpig. I have the security of knowing I was on the side of being correct all along. And I'm pretty much right about how the GOP is turning into a pit of racist vipers, too. 

Time will prove me right. (again... sad to say.)

Oh yes, Irish Knight... the documents that Dan Rather broke, and was later forced to recant on. I guess there are some new investigations going on by independant groups who are looking into how much truth there actually was behind those documents. Again, time (and the inevitable tell-all books) will tell. But yeah, it could just be a case of some leftie extremeists putting one over on ol' Dan... you know... the same way the Death Eaters prattle on about "pulling the plug on Grandma" today... or how the latest fake birth certificate from Kenya is "honest, really and for true REAL... this time!"

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/16/2009 7:10:38 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		This coming from the poster boy for "my party, right ot wrong"




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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: GOP 'cranks' dominating debate - 9/16/2009 7:24:11 PM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		It's not really my party, I'm registered independant. But, you can distort the facts as much as you like... it's the GOP way, after all.

I've swung toward the Dems lately because it's pretty damed obvious that the right is heading straight toward a political black hole, and is already starting to "spaghettify" due to the tidal forces of their own extremeist, racist path. I mean, Jesus Christ, did any of you listen to what the fuck Beck was saying today? It was like he was trying to single handedly re-start the McCarthy witch hunts. Good luck surviving that!

As I have said before, on other threads... the GOP is a Romero-esque corpse. It's shambling about, trying to feed on the flesh of real political discourse. Now all we need is to have someone shoot it in the head so that it stays down, properly dead. (and no.. that's not a call to violence... it's a fucking film metaphor for what the right has become since the days of Reagan.) Dead. Dead. DEAD!

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Profile   Post #: 40
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