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Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/12/2009 6:48:12 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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Status: offline 		Joe Wilson, who became the darling of the far right by calling Obama a liar during last week's presidential address to a joint session of congress, seems to have a very selective sense of outrage. According to an article on opencongress.org,:

http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/1219-Joe-Wilson-Voted-to-Provide-Taxpayer-Money-for-Illegal-Immigrants-Healthcare

The article points out;
However, in 2003, Wilson voted to provide federal funds for illegal immigrants’ healthcare. The vote came on the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act of 2003, which contained Sec. 1011 authorizing $250,000 annually between 2003 and 2008 for government reimbursements to hospitals who provide treatment for uninsured illegal immigrants. The program has been extended through 2009 and there is currently a bipartisan bill in Congress to make it permanent.

The questions this raises seem to be;
1) Did Mr. Wilson suddenly come to the realization that he was against paying government money towards health care services for illegal aliens in the time between 2003 and today?
2) Was Mr. Wilson so clueless in 2003 so as not to realize that government money was going to health care and has since become a more conscientious reader of bills?
and most interesting to me,
3) How do those of you who have made such passionate pleas against the giving of any government monies to pay for the health care of illegal aliens feel about the fact that a republican congress, a republican senate and this specific republican elected official voted to do just that?

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/12/2009 7:00:25 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Perhaps it is not the paying of healthcare to illegal immigrants that is the reason for his outburst. Could it be he objects about how this part of the plan will be administered and that the Obama's administration is just using lips service to the problem?


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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/12/2009 7:24:54 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
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Status: offline 		Hospitals have to treat/transport anyone who shows up at the ER with an emergency medical situation. Insured or not - citizen, legal resident or not. These funds are for reimbursing hospitals for those costs.

"Under EMTALA—the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act—hospitals are obliged to medically screen any individual who comes to the ER, regardless of immigration status or ability to pay. If the patient is experiencing an emergency, the hospital must either provide treatment until the patient is stable or transfer the patient to another hospital in conformance with EMTALA."

Section 1011 has nothing to do with the health care reform issue being debated in Washington and across the nation.

The bitch about posting links is that some of us actually read them.


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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/12/2009 8:30:37 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Section 1011 has nothing to do with the health care reform issue being debated in Washington and across the nation.

The bitch about posting links is that some of us actually read them.
ORIGINAL: DomImus




I'm glad you read the link. Then you might have also read:

To be fair, Section 1011 is just a small part of a much larger bill that contained many Republican priorities. Still, Wilson’s protest against the current healthcare reform proposal giving coverage to illegal immigrants (which is false), is in direct contradiction to his 2003 vote. Allowing illegal immigrants to purchase unsubsidized healthcare through the Exchange that would be set up under the current proposal wouldn’t cost taxpayers a cent, and it would be a step towards fixing the problem that Section 1011 was designed to throw federal money at.
The question is, why is it that this representative was able to without protest vote for a bill the specifically earmarked money for health care for illegal aliens suddenly so moved to rage by the idea of government money being spent for health care for illegal aliens drive him to such a wild rage that he felt it necessary to call the president a liar in the middle of a formal address, an action that horrified even his own party members in it's rudeness?

Could it be that this "spontaneous show of outrage" wasn't quite as spontaneous as it was claimed to be?

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/12/2009 8:59:17 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
To be fair, Section 1011 is just a small part of a much larger bill that contained many Republican priorities. Still, Wilson’s protest against the current health care reform proposal giving coverage to illegal immigrants (which is false), is in direct contradiction to his 2003 vote.


It absolutely is not and I just showed you why it is not. Section 1011 provides for reimbursement to hospitals for emergency services they are required to perform by law but do not get paid for. The way I understand Section 1011 it provides for a fund so that hospitals don't get stuck holding the bag for services that another law required them to provide. Another law mandates these services must be provided. Section 1011 attempts to make up the costs for these services. While the fund does indeed pay for costs incurred in treating illegal immigrants it is more of a stop gap measure to help the hosptials that got hung out to dry under EMTALA.

Debating with you is like listening to a jukebox that only plays two songs.









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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/12/2009 9:58:58 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Many hospitals have changed their rules a bit. Many are now triaging patients, and turning away those who are truly nonemergent. Meaning... got a cold? go home. Got the flu? go home. The days of using the ER as an outpatient clinic are quickly coming to a close. People are being turned away based upon diagnosis.

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/12/2009 10:05:56 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

It absolutely is not and I just showed you why it is not. Section 1011 provides for reimbursement to hospitals for emergency services they are required to perform by law but do not get paid for. The way I understand Section 1011 it provides for a fund so that hospitals don't get stuck holding the bag for services that another law required them to provide. Another law mandates these services must be provided. Section 1011 attempts to make up the costs for these services. While the fund does indeed pay for costs incurred in treating illegal immigrants it is more of a stop gap measure to help the hosptials that got hung out to dry under EMTALA.

Debating with you is like listening to a jukebox that only plays two songs.
ORIGINAL: DomImus



My point is simply that the costs and/or propriety of providing health care to illegal aliens seems to have become far more important to Mr. Wilson now that there is a democratic administration than it was when there was a republican administration. If I had read that he had said a word against providing hospital care to illegal immigrants (the most expensive form of health care by the way), I might have an easier time believing his "outrage" over the issue in his blatantly inappropriate moment of glory in calling the president a liar during a formal address.

On another matter, can I ask why you feel that it is necessary to indulge in personal attacks? It's not that I mind overmuch, but I am curious as to why you feel the need to start it down that road.

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/12/2009 11:37:47 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		JEEEEEZUUUZ people, get a fucking grip!!!! Some hard-ass senator called Obama a liar and you are all up in arms. What fucking difference if Whastshisnasme yelled 'you lie" or "you  like little girls""..tell me exactly why its so horrendous that the Pres gets heckled when he addresses a joint session...are not the senators and Reps the duly elected representatives of the people. I mean shit folks did you really expect anything but sanitized talking points from either side...Damn its scary



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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 8:42:27 AM   
Brain


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Status: offline 		This is too good to miss too. I’ve always thought Newt was a hypocrite even if this was a mistake. After all, the guy has been married, what is it, three times? This is funny, “ He must have taken her name from his "other" phone book.”


Newt Gingrich Accidentally Names Porn Exec 'Entrepreneur Of The Year'

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/newt-gingrich-accidentally-names-porn-exec-entrepreneur-of-the-year.php?ref=fpb

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 1:07:11 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

This is too good to miss too. I’ve always thought Newt was a hypocrite even if this was a mistake. After all, the guy has been married, what is it, three times? This is funny, “ He must have taken her name from his "other" phone book.”


Newt Gingrich Accidentally Names Porn Exec 'Entrepreneur Of The Year'

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/newt-gingrich-accidentally-names-porn-exec-entrepreneur-of-the-year.php?ref=fpb


Off topic.

Firm

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 1:08:49 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

On another matter, can I ask why you feel that it is necessary to indulge in personal attacks? It's not that I mind overmuch, but I am curious as to why you feel the need to start it down that road.


Luke 6:42

Firm

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 2:18:17 PM   
MarsBonfire


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Status: offline 		Yeah, Firm... how can you ignore that log sticking out of your own eye? You and Sanity have been responsible for more ad hominem on this site than the verbal smackdowns on WWE.

Wilson acted like a town hall buffoon. The rest of the GOP wasn't much better, Twittering away, holding up copies of their joke bill, and one of them even walking out at the start of the address. As I understand it, Wilson will be up for censure at opening. Good. I hope they horsewhip the racist creep until he bleeds. 

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 2:30:42 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

As I understand it, Wilson will be up for censure at opening. Good. I hope they horsewhip the racist creep until he bleeds.
Shit I hope they do no such thing. The guy did nothing wrong...he called another politician a liar during a speech......oooooooooooooo scary stuff kids. And as for him being a racist, well I have heard nothing of the sort about him....unless you are going to start the "anybody who criticizes Obama must be a racist" crap, in which case your credibility will be going even further down than it already has due to your pointless partisan diatribes.

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 2:45:13 PM   
MarsBonfire


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Status: offline 		Wilson is a member of a southern neo-confederate group, "Sons of Confederate Veterans," which has racist underpinnimgs. Is this the same Joe Wilson who fought for years to keep the stars and bars flying over the S.C. capitol dome? The same Joe Wilson who, even after the Thurmond family admitted that Strom had an illigitamate black daughter, was quoted as saying, "the little n***** should have kept her mouth shut!" 

Is that the Joe Wilson of which you are speaking?

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 2:50:39 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
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From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		OK.let me get this straight....this guy called Obama a liar during Obama's speech when the Prez said the health care plan wouldn't give illegals coverage, and 6 years or so ago this same guy voted for a bill that had as one of its elements a provision to compensate hospitals for their expenses providing care to uninsured people (who include illegals)...OK I think I got it now.

Here's my question...what does one have to do with the other?


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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 2:54:00 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		I'm going to have to look for that quote about Thurmond's "other" family. For our Northern neighbors, the Stars and Bars (Confederate) flag is different form the Stars and Stripes (U.S.) flag.


Edited for dang typos.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 9/13/2009 2:55:54 PM >

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 4:08:11 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Shit I hope they do no such thing. The guy did nothing wrong...he called another politician a liar during a speech......oooooooooooooo scary stuff kids. And as for him being a racist, well I have heard nothing of the sort about him....unless you are going to start the "anybody who criticizes Obama must be a racist" crap, in which case your credibility will be going even further down than it already has due to your pointless partisan diatribes.ORIGINAL: Arpig



Ar,
Let me inject a word. I have never called anyone who criticized Obama as being racist. And I have nothing against any politician calling another a liar. However, decorum does have it's place. I remember seeing clips of fistfights on various parliamentary floors, usually but not exclusively in Asia. I would rather not see that happen on the floor of the US senate. Since the expectation we have for civilized behavior in political debate is constantly being lowered (on both sides) I would be just as happy to see just a little order stood up for.

Besides, a censor from the congress is a pretty meaningless discipline in the scheme of things. It is the congress signing a letter saying "bad boy" with no other bite to it. At the least, it may keep the throwing of chairs and fists at bay for another year or so.


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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 4:12:26 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

OK.let me get this straight....this guy called Obama a liar during Obama's speech when the Prez said the health care plan wouldn't give illegals coverage, and 6 years or so ago this same guy voted for a bill that had as one of its elements a provision to compensate hospitals for their expenses providing care to uninsured people (who include illegals)...OK I think I got it now.

Here's my question...what does one have to do with the other?

ORIGINAL: Arpig




Actually, Ar....this guy called Obama a liar because illegal aliens MIGHT recieve health care under the current reforms by committing fraud. Six years ago, he voted for a bill that specifically earmarked funds to reimburse hospitals for health care given to illegal aliens. My question is, when did the idea of having government money for the health care of illegal aliens become so abhorrent to him that he could not control his rage and had to lower the bar of acceptable behavior by government officials to a new low.

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 4:30:26 PM   
Laymedown60


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Status: offline 		Spinner could it be he just feels Obama is not telling the truth and lying to the American public on this issue...and not the issue itself he is for or against?

Butch

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RE: Joe Wilson; THIS IS TOO GOOD TO MISS - 9/13/2009 4:43:16 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Spinner could it be he just feels Obama is not telling the truth and lying to the American public on this issue...and not the issue itself he is for or against?
ORIGINAL: Laymedown60



Then I would have to ask why this particular lie is any worse than the lies that politicians hear and tell on a regular basis. What drove this particular man to this particular act of rudeness so excessive that he was criticized by both parties roundly in the first bi-partisan agreement since the entire congress and senate caved in to the poll numbers to authorize the Iraq war? In short, I question whether this was a lack of self-control that at the kindest interpretation was brought on by outrage or was this a calculated act designed to win popularity among the most angry of the right wing.

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