Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly alter your life after collaring?

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Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly alt... - 9/13/2009 9:42:18 AM

MartinP

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline

Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly alter your relationship or your life after the collaring?

This is a question aimed at the submissives in a longer relationship. but all can join, naturally.

In an other thread, I read how some masters completely change the relationship and life of their newly acquired slave. Usually it is not to improve the slave’s life…

The image I used was:

Before collaring, the master described the relation limited to some play, a bit of nudity and the occasional spanking.
After some months the slave is surprised to live in complete nudity, eat on the floor from a bowl and to be regularly caned.
Nothing of the new treatment has ever been mentioned before as an option, or just in a blanket statement (you will be my slave and will do what I want).

Maybe it is a bit coarse, but I sure that it is understandable for everybody.

Has anybody here experienced such a shift of the goal posts after his or her collaring?
What was the extent?
What was the explanations of the dominant for such an “unexpected” shift?
How did you cope with it?

Take care

Martin

I remember

Post #: 1

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/13/2009 10:28:59 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Personally I would consider that a bait and switch if it is totally against her will and done by manipulation and force.
But actually very few people have such a thing happen in such a short time frame. And I would expect the s type to walk shortly afterwards.

It's pretty stupid, when you think about it, to take someone who only wants a little slap and tickle and break their limits in such a manner, if you then expect them to enjoy doing things that make you happy, be excited to be in bed with you etc.

You can force an abused woman to stay in a relationship for a time, you cannot force her to enjoy it or your company.

That's more wanker material and porn I would wager then it is real life. Smart people seek someone who is compatible not someone totally incompatible to have a bad relationship with.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to MartinP)

Post #: 2

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/13/2009 10:31:22 AM

stillholdson

Posts: 15
Joined: 9/4/2009
Status: offline

Master has discussed with me at great length and me fully aware that my limits shall become His in time.
Already some things I thought I would never do are being considered in a much more positive manner as I grow under His guidance and care.
Trust is being developed which is a major hurdle for me due to the fact in the past I have experienced everything being as it was NOT described.
There was an NO explanation given of 'why' things were so very different than what I was lead to believe my life would be like.
Self-preservation mode kicked in fast and I left before damage was done to my psyche.
I do not need to be owned so badly that I will keep myself in a situation that is unhealthy emotionally and or physically.
It can be quite devasting to find yourself in this position and from what I understand it occurs far too much.

_____________________________

"you will come to understand my ways and accept them as your fate"~Master SF~

(in reply to MartinP)

Post #: 3

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/13/2009 11:07:24 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Since the mozzies have driven me inside, I've been alternating between work around the house and sitting on my arse here.

I read this thread, then went to toss in a load of laundry and was thinking about it (the thread that is).

At first reading, I would agree with the whole bait and switch, dump em, crowd. And definitely in many instances that is the case. But in thinking about it some more, I think there is a grey area that also needs to be considered. Few of us are static and rarely is a relationship. I know there are A LOT of things I would have never considered doing ten years ago, that now I see as "no big deal".

Take the nudity thing as an example. Maybe I don't intend on having a girl running nude around the house all the time. Given our climate, my desire for the house to be quite cool inside, and the chance of people stopping by, combined with the guests we have on occasion......having a girl running around nude 24/7 is not a stellar idea. BUT, what if circumstances changed? What if it became more sensible? What if I found I really liked seeing a girl nude here at home, all the time? Is it such a huge issue? Not to me it isn't.

Granted, there certainly are issues that I could see as being monstrous. But to try and make all things, all people, all relationships and specifically the changes over time........black and white....is a mistake, in my eyes.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 9/13/2009 11:11:47 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MartinP)

Post #: 4

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/13/2009 11:22:27 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

LaT, over time, no problem. But I didn't get that impression from the op. I think he meant the dominant slaps a collar on and then announces he lied about everything.

But in your example, if the sub had that as a hard limit, it still isn't fair to say do it or get out. You know it's a problem and you can't just order it without talking about it.

Oviously being naked inside with the screens keeping the mosquitoes out is one thing, but accepting someone is straight or lesbian, and then announcing they have to have sex with a person of a gender that turns them off majorly is something else.

He knows I'm never going to do that. If he forced me into the situation I'd be very upset, crying and begging not to, making it obvious to the other woman I found this to totally abhorrent. And I can't imagine she would enjoy having a woman lick her and then throw up. We would have to discuss this and see if there was a way for both of us to get our needs met. Whether he hired two escorts to do each other while he watched and I stayed home to do laundry or whether he needed his partner to enthusiastically do this at which point we would separate without having harmed anyone.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 5

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/13/2009 11:23:30 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

Sometimes I think LaT must be My twin Sister separated at birth, too often We think along such similar lines (And seem to both have good taste in women!)

Likewise My first thought was about the consent issue and indeed 'bait & switch' as it is where 'problems' like this commonly arise. Gaining their confidence on a false premise only to impose a situation that they wouldn't have agreed to consent to had it been tabled upfront.

But likewise I reserve the right to change what I will, as I will. Either because I develop an interest in whatever I changed to accommodate or because I see the change as needed to solve some issue that I am addressing. For example, when My girl moved in she wasn't working... once she found a job she suddenly hit "Bedtimes"... Not as issue discussed but one I felt needed to ensure My girl performed her best in her new job.... but it was anything but 'bait & switch', no deception involved. I am the same person she learned to trust in, the same person she submitted to and thus changes are taken as a matter of course without becoming 'problems'

As usual things are more likely to arrive here in the guise of problems than when the same issue isn't being a problem at all.... The 'problem' isn't the change, it is the deception.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 6

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/13/2009 11:27:46 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Des, I think you know me well enough to know that I am not advocating a slave accept every single change. Nor would I suggest that a M-type be an honourable person for doing so. I was simply saying that to expect every single thing to remain exactly as it was in the beginning is unreasonable. Things change.

Which brings the discussion to something I am a huge fan of, communication. To make assumptions, take for granted, without discussing, is a recipe for disaster. If indeed I did change my mind about the nudity, I would talk to the slave, find out how she feels about it, discuss any reservations she had about it, and listen. Then I would decide whether or not it was a big issue for me or not. Ongoing communication is an important part of a sucessful relationship.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 7

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/13/2009 11:49:48 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

Why would a Master do that?

Shifting things gradually in response to changing conditions is fine and to be expected.

Drastic changes to amuse the Master, which were not previously discussed with the slave, don't strike me as a good idea.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 8

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/13/2009 2:35:19 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

Wow!!! Let me just totally muck up the waters here. In a general sense I don't think it is terribly advisable to switch things up out of the blue. I also think that gradual shifts come over time from building trust, learning each other better, and more. Then there is the situation I encountered. I would say that the dynamic I am in right now would probably disgust me with ALMOST anyone else and is certainly NOT what I was looking for. Actually, I found it pretty well screwed up in the head and made it clear to absolutely anyone and everyone, including my partner upon first few contacts, that I did NOT want ANYTHING to do with this. It was non negotiable, a hard limit, whatever you want to call it. If someone even hinted in that direction, I was gone.

Then the unthinkable happened. I contacted my partner first (I still swear by this for submissive by the way). He had it very clearly listed in his profile that this dynamic was one he sought most particularly and had a heavy interest in it. I figured I could meet him in an area of interaction of which he had experience and I wasn't so opposed and we could both be quite happy with that. As far as a lot of our other views on things and more, it seemed like we otherwise matched well. A few emails and he was knocking on that door quite heavily and for some reason, instead of running, I found myself just patiently declining to go there with him. We decided to speed up conversation a bit and had an IM chat. The next thing I knew, I was deep in that dynamic I wanted nothing to do with. Much to my dismay, it wasn't at all the way I had imagined it would be. I wanted so badly to be angry, disgusted, and walk away, but he had struck a nerve in me. It was the most open and safe situation I had ever been in and I didn't know what to make of that. I was interested, however, to know why he just went ahead and plowed through one of my very emphatically expressed hard limits. He did not really explain, just simply asked if I was happy. I had to admit I was. At that point it didn't really matter much what the why was. I am still quite content with what we have created now and don't see that changing any time soon.

All that to say, sometimes another person can get to know us better than we know ourselves and can pry into areas that we don't even know how to let people touch. It takes a special person and a special relationship for this to be possible, but it is not out of the question even in the early going. If I am honest, the reason I protested so much (in hindsight of course) is that it had been a need that I simply was not allowed the luxury of having. To even admit that I needed such was to face harsh opposition. He saw what I hid even from myself. I was quite taken aback by the whole thing and it is taking a long time to really come to acceptance, but I cannot deny what he found and I can only be thankful to him for tearing down my sacred cow and meeting some of the most desperate needs I had.

Like I said, it may muddy the waters here, but I don't think there is anything wrong with finding you have arrived in a destination you never expected as long as you find out once you are there that it is where you've always belonged. If your bliss is in the place that you never imagined, does it really matter how you found it?

lovingpet

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 9

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/13/2009 3:50:22 PM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinP

Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly alter your relationship or your life after the collaring?

No He did not. I'm in a leather collar (not locking) for just under four months now, and eventually will be in a locking collar. He did say He'd continue to push my limits, which I do want, but He said He'd never cross a hard limit without my permission. If a relationship grows and changes bit by bit over time that can be a good thing, but if it suddenly changed drastically overnight, I think I'd freak out.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to MartinP)

Post #: 10

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/13/2009 4:26:19 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

LaT, of course I know that you wouldn't do it in an unethical manner. Just wanted to point out that your example of some years down the line is a lot different from collaring a month in and two weeks later demanding she bring a girlfriend home to fuck him or get badly caned daily.

It's been a while since we've seen one of those threads but Lord knows they show up regularly. So it does happen.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

Post #: 11

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/14/2009 3:51:30 AM

MartinP

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Why would a Master do that?

Shifting things gradually in response to changing conditions is fine and to be expected.

Drastic changes to amuse the Master, which were not previously discussed with the slave, don't strike me as a good idea.

Steven,

I think that drastic changes is a no brainer. It is deceipt and abuse.

But it is also possible to slowly bring the slave in a situation she actually does not want to be. The graduality, makes her impossible to draw a line in the sand. Taken one by one, none of the change is reason enough to walk away, put together they sum up to a miserable life.

Like the frog that is cooked slowly in the movie of Al Gore. Taken one by one, no temperature increases kills the frog, so it does not jump before it is too late. (I never tried this on real frogs though ;-)

Martin

I remember

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 12

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/14/2009 4:13:39 AM

petmonkey

Posts: 1053
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline

While i am not "collared" (no ceremony, no physical collar, no overt declaration of such) nor identify as a slave, i have been presented with "like it or lump it" situations in the past, more to do with Him as primary motivator and leader of Our life path and the path Our relationship will take than specific BDSM acts. Indeed, these situations gummed up the emotional and dynamic works for us at points. i chose to promote the health and existence of the relationship itself over myself or Him. The most recent shift has changed my life to the point that i live somewhere i never intended to live, work somewhere i never intended to work and must essentially build an entirely new "life".
His reasons for this most recent shift were to ensure a more solid financial future for the both of Us. i cope by doing the daily work that needs to be done to prepare for this future and discussing the details (goals, specifics of what this future will look like, high points and lows of the present) with Him as well as discussing it with people in my personal support network.
Some would not have chosen to do what i did but ultimately, it was my choice. i am and will be the better for it as will He and the relationship itself. Knowing this is what defines whether it was a good decision or not for me, Him and Us.

_____________________________

Be excellent to each other.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 13

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/14/2009 4:16:28 AM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline

quote:

Before collaring, the master described the relation limited to some play, a bit of nudity and the occasional spanking.
After some months the slave is surprised to live in complete nudity, eat on the floor from a bowl and to be regularly caned.
Nothing of the new treatment has ever been mentioned before as an option, or just in a blanket statement (you will be my slave and will do what I want).

it is important to know what happened in the interim

_____________________________

PICKED UPON
TECHNO-DOLT
MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
VAA/S FAN

GIVES GOOD HEART (Lushy)

CREATOR OF MAYHEM (practice)

(in reply to MartinP)

Post #: 14

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/14/2009 5:55:06 AM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

I haven't had any experience with goal shifting after collaring but there was a Dom that I was beginning a relationship with who definitely messed things up by not respecting my hard limits. He was told that other women were a hard limit of mine, but he then proceeded to nag me several times about finding a female friend for us to play with. I have no interest in this and wasn't going to do it even though I wanted to please him and was happy in the other aspects of our partnership.

I walked away. He continues to contact me to this day trying to get me to reconsider. I must have fit the bill for him in most ways...it's a pity he didn't respect me well enough before to know where the line was and pay attention to what he was doing/asking. He pushed for having an evening of fun over what things could have been for us in the long run and seems to regret that heavily now.

(in reply to MartinP)

Post #: 15

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/14/2009 9:55:29 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

I have belonged to Master fo over 3 years now. He has never moved the goal posts" on me. Sure i do some things now that i did not think i would do and enjoy them very much. Master never just did them without telling me. If he wants to stretch a limit we talk about it first. As Mater knows my hard limits are set in stone and his limits are similar so that is not a problem. I expect him to push my soft limits. If he one day decided to do something i was not comfortable with or was not agreed with beforhand i would have to walk away. iI would be hard but if i can't trust him there would be no relationship. However i trust him with my heart and life.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 16

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/14/2009 10:01:57 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline

You assume that all subsmissives will be or are collared. Not every sub in a relationship wears a collar, or finds collaring nessesary.

However no, once committing to a dom I have not had them "switch the goal post "on me, however I will admit I have only had 2 doms, But non consensually switching things around soley for his amusement with out discussion, would be a hard limit for any relationship I am in.

< Message edited by Toppingfrmbottom -- 9/14/2009 10:08:48 AM >

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 17

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/14/2009 10:44:48 AM

MartinP

Posts: 39
Joined: 9/11/2009
Status: offline

Dear sirsholly

This is just an example, not a real occurence.

Martin

I remember

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 18

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/14/2009 10:49:27 AM

AnimusRex

Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

The drastic example used by the Op is so far as I know, extreme, and extremely unusual. Mostly because who would benefit from that? If a Master wants a girl to sit around naked and eat from a dog bowl, there are plenty of girls who get off on that- no need to bait and switch a non-consenting one. As DesFIP mentioned, that does sound a bit like wank material ("she thought it was an innocent tutoring session...but then found herself in...SORORITY GIRL SLAVE CAMP!!! (in 3D flesh-o-vison!!)

But in long term couples, of course the goal posts are always moving; a young couple plans to base their two careers in one city, then his job is relocated to another; or she decides to stop working and be a stay at home mom....etc etc.
A Dom who is only mildly into spanking, may develop an avid hunger for it; or vice versa. Relationships are always changing, and the fortunate couples are those who can ride the changes together.

(in reply to MartinP)

Post #: 19

RE: Shifting the goal posts. Did your dom/dome strongly... - 9/14/2009 5:09:13 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

Carol and I had been together a long time before the collaring. You can damned well bet that I'm changing the relationship... in some ways fairly dramatically. Don't get me wrong, we've had a happy marriage. In our case though, there's nothing insidious or devious about it. What, exactly, would be the point in me taking a managerial role over our marriage if I didn't think I could somehow improve things?

Some of the specific changes are troublesome to Carol. But you have to take that in the overall context of her being delireously happy.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to MartinP)

Post #: 20

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