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RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/14/2009 8:50:25 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Amen littlewonder!


(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/14/2009 8:54:13 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Ordering you to buy purple shoes immediately without him paying for them, unless he knows you have tons of extra money would have been a red flag enough for me.

Beyond that, if he acted dishonestly with you, then you don't need his permission to end it. He broke the contract first.

However when he said he didn't want you to write about things, and this is how you process it - that should have been a big sign that you aren't compatible.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/15/2009 5:34:04 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I'm afraid those tactics would fail miserably with me.  I wouldn't *shape up* if I was *shown* in such a ridiculous manner how replaceable I am;  I'd *ship out*.

There are a trillion ways to focus someone's attention on the right and best thing in a relationship without resorting to that brand of stupidity ( supposing that's what he really WAS doing).

The purple shoe thing....It isn't *annoying or controlling* not to have something he's demanded on a whim, shoes or anything else. It's one thing to say * If you have any purple shoes, I'd like to see you in them. If you haven't, here's some money, I'd like you to purchase some*......and it's an entirely different thing to be harangued for hours over something so insignificant.

If you have a very busy life, so busy that you need to set reminders to collect your daughter, surely that's something rather vital?  How can HE focus on adding further burden on your already taxed life for something as petty as a pair of shoes when your *busy life* already includes talking to him * all day, every day*, to the point that you can't remember your own responsibilities?

It may just be the way you've written this or just the situations you've described ........ but somehow, priorities seem completely out of whack.

agirl





(in reply to MMagic)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/15/2009 6:40:37 AM   
MMagic


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

This entire scenario is messed up.

First of all, you were wrong to "test" him. Imo if you have to do that you're already doubting him and you already know in your heart the relationship is over. You already didn't trust him. Imo the testing is a deceit on your part.

His deceit was lying to you about the relationship.

Both parties were in the wrong here.

Learn from your mistakes, move on and don't rush into another relationship. Take your time and wait until you find that man who is what you need in your life.



Little Wonder love, READ again all my posts. *I* did not decide to test him, my more experienced friend who happens to be a sub, tested him.  I didn't ask her too, didn't ask to know the response or results, she forwarded his responses to me trying to warn me that he's NOT who I was trusting him to be.  I didn't do anything to him other than try to do as I was asked to the best of my abilities and when he was having issue early on I asked if he wanted to end it and his answer was that he loved me and he was fine, we'd get through it.  Lies.  4 months and you have to secretly break camp after convincing me that he could handle a new sub and I was special blah blah...no I don't accept blame for that.

I have no trouble admitting when I'm wrong and I see things from most all angles and am very self aware. He was not.  The adage, don't bite off more than you can chew, comes to mind here.  He bit, couldn't chew and wasn't man enough to spit it out and say I can't do it.  Instead opted to make me the bad girl and say it's my fault and then walk. And my friend spent last night searching through all his interactions with past subs and yes now there is a pattern.  So I should have remembered my own advice. Trust but verify. I trusted and didn't verify. THAT is my fault.  I should have verified.


_____________________________

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West



(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/15/2009 6:58:22 AM   
sravaka


Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chimortis

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
What I find interesting from following your posts is that it appears that you trust way too easily. You say it is not so and that you actually have trouble trusting.


This is a pattern that I have noticed among people in general over the years, when in the context of intimate relationships. In fact, I was once totally guilty of that.

I could analyze more, but I probably shouldn't. I'll keep it short. Someone who has been through what the OP has is probably desperate to find someone, and probably suffers from depression. She's probably all too willing to trust because she needs the attention from someone but at the same time is unable to *genuinely* trust. She probably also has a tendency to find and/or attractive untrustworthy people.

That's just my take, of course, but I do have a lot of experience in dealing with people who have complicated mental and emotional baggage.




I don't know if this is applicable to the OP specifically...  but I think it often goes deeper than desperation or depression.  Those just end up being outward signs of trouble.  When one has dire trust-weirdness in one's past, particularly deep in one's past, it screws up the evaluating mechanisms.  It becomes a question not of training yourself to trust for the sake of trusting, but of training yourself to figure out who is trustworthy and who is not.  This is hard enough under normal circumstances, esp. when meeting people online, but traumas can leave you with all kinds of conflicting evaluations doing battle in your brain, and sometimes "ok, I'll just trust and see what happens" is no more or less than a way of cutting through the noise and attempting to get on with life. 

I think the most trustworthy evaluations (a lot of this has as much to do with trusting yourself and your gut as it does with trusting the other guy) tend to come from some deep place--  simply "this feels right" vs. "something feels off here."  The more you have to cogitate to convince yourself to trust, the more likely there's a problem.

Sorry if all that is irrelevant.  OP, I'm sorry you had to go through this, but frankly?  it sounds like you're well rid of him.  In my book, "blame the submissive" games are a big red flag (though it's not always easy to sort it out). 

Feel better, and be good to yourself!

< Message edited by sravaka -- 9/15/2009 7:38:53 AM >

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

(in reply to Chimortis)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/15/2009 7:12:56 AM   
MMagic


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I'm afraid those tactics would fail miserably with me.  I wouldn't *shape up* if I was *shown* in such a ridiculous manner how replaceable I am;  I'd *ship out*.

There are a trillion ways to focus someone's attention on the right and best thing in a relationship without resorting to that brand of stupidity ( supposing that's what he really WAS doing).

The purple shoe thing....It isn't *annoying or controlling* not to have something he's demanded on a whim, shoes or anything else. It's one thing to say * If you have any purple shoes, I'd like to see you in them. If you haven't, here's some money, I'd like you to purchase some*......and it's an entirely different thing to be harangued for hours over something so insignificant.

If you have a very busy life, so busy that you need to set reminders to collect your daughter, surely that's something rather vital?  How can HE focus on adding further burden on your already taxed life for something as petty as a pair of shoes when your *busy life* already includes talking to him * all day, every day*, to the point that you can't remember your own responsibilities?

It may just be the way you've written this or just the situations you've described ........ but somehow, priorities seem completely out of whack.

agirl


Oh no agirl that's pretty accurate, only it wasn't shoes, it was pantyhose.  I work at home and I NEVER liked hose so I stopped wearing them years ago. I kept some around for a long time because they have other household uses and decided about a month or so before I met him to throw them out.  My husband threw all out but one pair and that was an accident, so I had NO idea I had these hose.  When he asked me to go out and buy some I said alright (I was not allowed to use the word okay, he said he hated it but used it often) anyway before I left to go out I was pulling things out of the drawer to make room for new things and found the hose, told him...arguement ensues.  Why didn't I look for them properly and I would have found them. Notice I said I thought I threw them all out so WHY on the Goddresses Green earth would I be looking for them.  And that's a 3 DAY argument.

I got through the night, I'm good this morning.  I have perspective on who I was dealing with and am in a good place today. I'm angry still as I always am when I meet people who are clearly not worth the effort and time I put into them. But this too shall pass...along with a lot of MEAN emails to him from me.  Makes ME feel better to do so.  I've told him not to reply or read them but he reads and replies, they are deleted by my server and I just write more.  I say by this time next week I'll be good.  Thanks all (even those I don't agree with)  your perspectives and replies are appreciated.




_____________________________

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West



(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/15/2009 7:20:23 AM   
MMagic


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/9/2009
Status: offline 		Sravaka,

I'd say that's pretty damn accurate.  I have a lot of trouble with that whole trust thing and knowing who I should and shouldn't, AND add to that I do get those..something is off feelings but I can't trust that either.  I've met some of my best friends and sometimes I felt that "something is off" thing with them.  What I'm starting to learn though is..if I ask said person about what I feel is off and we discuss who they really are as opposed to what I think I see, usually that "off" feeling goes away. I understand them they understand me.  But if I ask and I get what I got here, I should run for the hills.  My little voice said something was off but I stayed longer than I should have trying to dig into why it was off, when he was not willing to talk about what was off, but blame ME instead.  It was me that was off because he's been doing it for so long it CAN'T be him.  He did admit once that he had to try different tactics with me because I think a little differently than your average Josephine, but later that changed to..since he's been doing it for so long it was like I was Dom-ing HIM if he had to change the way he did things.  Yeah I know..I know. Mag should have run for the hills.  For that I fault myself.

Carry on and have a great day people, I'm lingering whilst I work.


_____________________________

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West



(in reply to sravaka)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/15/2009 7:43:07 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MMagic

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I'm afraid those tactics would fail miserably with me.  I wouldn't *shape up* if I was *shown* in such a ridiculous manner how replaceable I am;  I'd *ship out*.

There are a trillion ways to focus someone's attention on the right and best thing in a relationship without resorting to that brand of stupidity ( supposing that's what he really WAS doing).

The purple shoe thing....It isn't *annoying or controlling* not to have something he's demanded on a whim, shoes or anything else. It's one thing to say * If you have any purple shoes, I'd like to see you in them. If you haven't, here's some money, I'd like you to purchase some*......and it's an entirely different thing to be harangued for hours over something so insignificant.

If you have a very busy life, so busy that you need to set reminders to collect your daughter, surely that's something rather vital?  How can HE focus on adding further burden on your already taxed life for something as petty as a pair of shoes when your *busy life* already includes talking to him * all day, every day*, to the point that you can't remember your own responsibilities?

It may just be the way you've written this or just the situations you've described ........ but somehow, priorities seem completely out of whack.

agirl


... found the hose, told him...arguement ensues.  Why didn't I look for them properly and I would have found them. Notice I said I thought I threw them all out so WHY on the Goddresses Green earth would I be looking for them.  And that's a 3 DAY argument.







It all seems ridiculous looking in from the outside.....but I know that often a *row* about a pair of panty-hose or shoes is often NOT about the panty-hose or shoes.

agirl

(in reply to MMagic)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/15/2009 9:56:37 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MMagic

Sravaka,

I'd say that's pretty damn accurate.  I have a lot of trouble with that whole trust thing and knowing who I should and shouldn't, AND add to that I do get those..something is off feelings but I can't trust that either.  I've met some of my best friends and sometimes I felt that "something is off" thing with them.  What I'm starting to learn though is..if I ask said person about what I feel is off and we discuss who they really are as opposed to what I think I see, usually that "off" feeling goes away. I understand them they understand me.  But if I ask and I get what I got here, I should run for the hills.  My little voice said something was off but I stayed longer than I should have trying to dig into why it was off, when he was not willing to talk about what was off, but blame ME instead.  It was me that was off because he's been doing it for so long it CAN'T be him.  He did admit once that he had to try different tactics with me because I think a little differently than your average Josephine, but later that changed to..since he's been doing it for so long it was like I was Dom-ing HIM if he had to change the way he did things.  Yeah I know..I know. Mag should have run for the hills.  For that I fault myself.

Carry on and have a great day people, I'm lingering whilst I work.



If it helps at all, I understand what you are talking about here. That's why I picked up on it in the first place. I had my own past traumas that left me with a very screwed up trust barometer. I have talked about it on here before. People I had no business going near, were the ones that I was willing to trust and walk to my own grave for. Good people got spurned and somehow set off misgivings in me. I have told people that it is not that I don't trust you, but that I don't trust the fact that I trust you. When your own instincts are out of whack it becomes nearly impossible to know a good person from a bad person.

One method I used while working on this was to run prospective people by someone I had come to a long term appreciation of their wisdom and insights. If they were seeing the same as I was seeing, then I had more confidence in my decision. There are a very slim few people I would have placed in that position, so it is only as good as your ability to fill that role with high quality people. It did help start to sort out the signals. Some of the sensations I got that I thought were positives were actually danger signals and I began to see a pattern (especially physical response). Those negative messages had slowly been rewritten likely to allow me to accept a bad thing with less trauma in the past. That also automatically caused an overwrite on the positive sensations. Good was bad and bad was good.

I can tell you that it does get better and that you can work through it and develop the ability to discern more accurately. It takes time (and for me some therapy), but it is possible and helps so much with both confidence and trust. To know that my opinion of someone is congruent with reality boosts my confidence exponentially when it comes time to make those big decisions. All my best! Here's to feeling better soon!

lovingpet

(in reply to MMagic)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/16/2009 6:29:21 AM   
MMagic


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/9/2009
Status: offline 		I follow you pet. And it will be a lifelong work in progress this.  But today is a new day and I have tons of friends who are all being loving and supporting and feeding me my favorite diet...games. <grin> 

My perspective on this is getting clearer by the day. And I have too much to do to let one person stop the world from spinning.  I am remembering one conversation between he and I that sticks out now.  his facial expression. He said something about being devastated if we broke up, how would I feel. I said I'd be fine.  I'll hurt for a while but I bend, I don't break.  His facial expression...priceless now that I understand what it meant.

As I told a Dom yesterday. People can't handle the truth and when told the truth they think you're being mean and trying to hurt them. No, what hurts worse is being lied to.  There are times to lie, yes.  I'm on a ventilator and something happened to my child...yes please lie to me until I'm strong enough to handle the truth.  But BS about relationships and especially HERE should not be lied about. We're all here because we have open minds. So why get here and play games?  Hmmm I'm in a writing mood today, let me see if I can't whip about few pieces.  Have a great day lovelies. Enjoy the fall weather.  Now if only I could stop thinking the scarecrow in my front  yard is an actual person I'd be good.


_____________________________

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West



(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/16/2009 7:06:16 AM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		um, no, i dont believe you have missed anything.  he got caught out and then tried to save face and manipulate you by calling it a punishment and a wake up call.  i would have blown a fuse too - now ask youreself why you  blew a fuse.

youre submission got twisted back at you as a weapon
he lied when hes supposed to be someone you trust
youre friend is complicit in this, which is a double wammy hurt/broken trust
instead of being 'man' about it he wimped out and blamed you (ach!!!)
in short he fell short in youre eyes right there, right then on about every single level he could possibly have fallen short on. (lally)

I could analyze more, but I probably shouldn't. I'll keep it short. Someone who has been through what the OP has is probably desperate to find someone, and probably suffers from depression. She's probably all too willing to trust because she needs the attention from someone but at the same time is unable to *genuinely* trust. She probably also has a tendency to find and/or attractive untrustworthy people. (Chimortis)

There are plenty of people out there who do want to communicate, who do want to move forward in a relationship, who do like working to control & minimize the roadblocks in their lives, & I prefer to pick from that group . . . . . (kia)


The only thing I have to add to the above excellent posts is a hug.


_____________________________

Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?




(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/16/2009 2:50:35 PM   
MMagic


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/9/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Dimples,

I follow but I'd like to point out again that my friend did what she did to protect me and I love her for it.  She's being very verbal about her dislike of what he did and has posted on her OWN journal here and her yahoo journal and to HIM even.  Though I've asked her to stop emailing him (she's very pissed-because I don't cry often, for any of them to see me in tears lets them know I was really hurt by this)

I can tell you exactly why I blew a fuse.  When I first got here I met a Dom who I hit it off with instantly.  He however, did something wierd and it didn't get any further than IMs and even after we'd cleared things up he thought he'd run me off and I thought he wasn't interested.  During my being pissed at him I met this one here who was nice enough but I told him about the first one I'd met.  I'm very very very straight forward and expect the same from whomever I'm talking to.  I'm honest to a fault.  If you want to know how you really look in your fav new shoes then ask me, if you don't then don't ask me.  I don't offer that honesty when the other person doesn't want it.  But I ALWAYS want to be told the truth.  No one ever need lie to me, whether they think it'll hurt me or not.  I blew a fuse because I asked said Dom to always tell me the truth. ALWAYS.  I asked several times if he felt like he needed to go because things weren't working out and I got the I love you, no I want this speech. He was in fact giving me this same speech while he was emailing my friend his "get acquainted" email and even through in something bad about me to her. This is why she's so livid because even when he and I fought I shouldered the blame and tried HARDER to do what he wanted.  So to have him refer to me in such a manner really set her AND her Dom off.  (They are both friends of mine).  In any case I say again I'm mad because I asked for truth, I gave truth, I told him everything even things I didn't HAVE to tell him considering we were long distance.  But being my first time out I approached it with an open mind and heart.  Of course I'll miss things about him but I'm more focused on the things I won't miss to make sure I don't stupidly end up calling and trying to work it out still.  I decided not to give anything back and I no longer care what he'll say about me to his next victim.  I'm sure the story will be really good, I'll become the evil bitch who tried to Dom him using my child and career as he put it, lol!

And now I shall return to my Starbucks and my Marvel Alliance 2. Nothing like beating some virtual ass to make a girl feel better.

PS The 1st Dom, the one who the wierd thing happened with has clearly redeemed himself. He DID apologize and even IMed yesterday to do so again. Telling me that nothing that's happened with him or my ex Dom was my fault and to keep my chin up.  I appreciated that and no he didn't hit on me either. :)


< Message edited by MMagic -- 9/16/2009 2:57:21 PM >

_____________________________

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West



(in reply to daintydimples)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/16/2009 5:22:29 PM   
bravemax


Posts: 23
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline 		Better off without him. Simple as that.

You can spend a lot of useful time working out why things went wrong in those relationships which have some merit to them but lost their way.

But when its just a case of "oops, so not capable of a relationship" then all you can do is be thrilled you found out earlier rather than later.

Don't let BDSM jargon cover up being a tosser.

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: And I can't tell you why... - 9/17/2009 8:16:18 AM   
MMagic


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bravemax

Better off without him. Simple as that.

You can spend a lot of useful time working out why things went wrong in those relationships which have some merit to them but lost their way.

But when its just a case of "oops, so not capable of a relationship" then all you can do is be thrilled you found out earlier rather than later.

Don't let BDSM jargon cover up being a tosser.


And let us say Amen.


_____________________________

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West



(in reply to bravemax)
Profile   Post #: 34
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