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RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/15/2009 3:07:56 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		LaT,
This has actually made me think......
When i made the decision that i was going to get to know Him i decided i was going to ask Him every question i had ever thought about.... i made Him answer most of those 'What if' questions not once or twice but many many times and the thing was....He answered them the same way every time.  i walked into this very very cautiously and eve then.... was still very leery... To say He had to earn my trust is something that would probably be something that would be enough to get me voted the CM UNSLAVELY ONE of the year....... heh...
At any rate....He would never ever EVER publicly embarrass, humiliate, or shame me...And if He did.....Well then..We would need to back it up a few paces, cause we would have some issues...Frankly, we are so far from perfect it's not even funny...My stance on it (and i think His too) is that first and foremost we are people, who are in a relationship, who are in a M/s relationship.... It's important sometimes for both of us to keep that in perspective.... There have been times when one of both of us have had to have been like, "uhm...Yeah..excuse me...but your crap is ragedy.." and either one or both of us has had to go in and get some counseling. Frankly, that's exactly why i know beyond a shadow of a doubt that He is worthy of my trust, worthy of my surrender, worthy of my submission.... Because He is willing to be honest...He is willing to be accountable...He is willing (in all of His Domlyness) to be transparent.   i think it's the fact that He wouldn't get all bent out of shape and all in a huff if i called Him on the carpet on something is a big part of what i love about Him.......
Kali

< Message edited by Kalista07 -- 9/15/2009 4:06:03 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/15/2009 3:30:33 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		FR

This is something which has been playing on my mind too for some time. I have been in and maintained vanilla relationships - characterized almost all of them by their superficiality as I'm transgendered and relate more to women than men and this is contrasted by the depth and intensity of all my relationships with dommes, up to and including the service type relationships. True to say that I am to a large extent a product of the BDSM community, as the people I know from this community have proven to be the most stable, the most supportive, and the most loyal.

I don't form superficial D/s relationships, I don't know how to, and though I hold nothing against anyone who does, I feel that I've been fortunate to know a succession of dommes who not only gave me a chance, but also constructed our relationships so that they were deep, significant in some way, meaningful, and who not only pushed the barriers and limits in getting to know me, but who also let down their own barriers to give me more of an insight into them.

Being somewhat on the fringes in a few cases I got into relationships with dommes who, like me, it seemed nobody else wanted, and in a few of these relationships I was their first genuine submissive. We're talking women who were so pissed off with men in relationships, and in one case women, they decided to try forming a relationship with me, transgendered. Were there issues? Why yes of course, there was a lot of anger, bitterness, resentment, and true to say this was on both sides of the kneel. I was aware of my own anger, resentment and bitterness coming from my childhood of abuse, and this gave me also additional feelings of guilt and shame, especially over the more superficial vanilla relationships I had been forming.

I've dealt with issues such as feminine anger, rage, bitterness, resentment, but none of these women ever got me in a place where my parents had put me, and as long as they couldn't I was cool, and they could put me through any amount of shit and I would handle it, I would cope. This was changed by my formative domme Kali in Warsaw who taught me that this wasn't really submission, and that my role as a submissive or slave wasn't that of a punchbag or whipping post, but someone who through service, submission and obedience brought just as much value and meaning to the relationship as any domme who cared to engage me.

Since then I have a whole new perspective on this. I know myself and I know that I am far from perfect, even though I hold myself to high standards. But I also accept the same from any dominant I form a relationship with. Each and every relationship from Kali onwards has been marked by its openness, closeness, where there is no fear, no measuring of words, be yourself, think, act, say, as you would if you were alone, and there is no judgment. None at all. We all have issues, we all have baggage, things we need to work on, things that could be better.

In almost all cases there was a significant health issue, MS, fibromyalgia, Kali herself has a rare but degenerative liver disease, another domme was fighting breast cancer and when I go out to Warsaw soon I will also be visiting the grave of a former Mistress who died not long back from a stroke. I was her only submissive, up to the point where her strokes affected her health so badly she had to ask me to leave so she could go back and be cared for by her elderly mother. Indeed, it would appear that almost all my relationships were formed with dominants who it appeared that nobody else wanted.

Not that it happened with any premeditation or forethought, it didn't. These things came up when we were getting to know each other it just never really affected the way I saw them as the people or women they were. Only Kali didn't let on, and it was almost three years into our relationship when I got a call from her sister telling me that Kali was in hospital. I sensed a hint of sheepishness behind her coal black eyes, eyes that hardly ever wavered in the face of a woman who for almost three years was total authority over me. How did I react? I laughed, she laughed, and nothing more was said. There was never any balance of trade between us, and if there was, it would have been prepaid handsomely long before.

Just because someone takes on the title of dominant in a relationship with you doesn't to my mind add anything to them as a person, just as it neither adds or takes anything away if you are a submissive. You can have the biggest dungeon, the best equipped toybox, all the fetish gear and equipment, be seen at the best events and clubs, all the kinks and protocols and dynamics etc but at the end of the day when you take all that away - all of it - you are still left with the lowest common denominator of D/s which is two people and the trust, connection and interaction between them. In fact it's not even the lowest common denominator of just D/s, but of every single relationship you could ever hope to form with anyone in your life.

It still requires personal integrity, character, feeling, empathy and everything else, it still requires making an allowance for the other person, it still involves that reality that you are going to get hurt, not get exactly what you want, be disappointed, and have to face up to moments and things which are difficult and uncomfortable. It still requires effort and commitment.

However with betrayal, deceit and lies this lowest common denominator is broken, destroyed, and you find yourself faced with the choice of either starting all over again with someone you know might not always have enough respect for you, them, and the relationship to make it work or moving on and giving someone new a chance where you don't have this knowledge. As I tend to prefer the latter I almost invariably walk, but not only, because I hold myself to the same standards and expect the same standards from others as I enjoyed with my previous Mistresses where by and large dishonesty was never an issue.



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(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/15/2009 6:13:07 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shadowowl
I would expect as much from most females but what about male subs/slaves?  most seem to have much lower standards when it comes to female dommes on average many will let just about anyone with high heels put a collar on them I've noticed.

I think that most of the time, they just use collars as a fetish device, rather than being willing to seriously commit to a submissive relationship. That leads to a lot of the frustration on both sides over in the "Ask A Mistress" forum. It isn't limited to men or online, though - I was at a non-BDSM-oriented but friendly to it gathering a few years back, and a pretty 20-something came up to me and asked if I would be her slave for the day. When I turned her down, she offered me a collar and leash and asked if I wanted to come with her to find one of my own instead.

Back to LaT, I don't expect my Master to be perfect. If he does something that hurts or upsets me, he specifically has *ordered* me to communicate about it. He wants me to be transparent, and while he's generally good at reading my body language, he can't quite read my mind. If he outright *betrayed* me, which I view as very different from making an honest mistake, I don't know if I could rebuild trust. It would depend on what he did, what his reasons for it were, etc., but there's a fairly good chance I would leave. Same goes if I had been with a submissive or switch - yes, I am giving more power and authority to him, and it requires a deeper level of trust, but outright betrayal isn't something I'm willing to put up with from anybody. I didn't turn into a mindless zombie or robot when he became my owner. He values my intelligence and input. I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations and views of D/s and M/s, especially when they are online-only, and haven't yet had a relationship *in person* doing this. While words can still hurt, and betrayal can still happen online, the repercussions tend to be a lot milder. The expectations some long-term successful D/s and M/s couples here have wouldn't work for me, personally, so I'm glad I've found someone who I'm on the same page with.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 9/15/2009 6:22:47 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/15/2009 6:16:15 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		When someone completely breaks my trust and respect in them be it they are "vanilla" or "d/s" it's pretty much the end of the relaitonship for me.

It takes a lot though for that to happen. Trust can be shaken, respect can slide but with communication, honesty and intimacy those can be repaired.

I have no problems whatsoever with telling someone, even Master, when I have a problem with what they're doing. How else are they to know?

While I may do *almost* anything for Master, there is a point though where once my morals and values and trampled on, it's time for me to move on.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 9/15/2009 6:18:50 PM >

(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/15/2009 7:51:43 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings LaTigresse,

For me, the key is good, open communication.  It doesn't matter what goes wrong because there is always a way to discuss issues respectfully and openly.  We are lucky in that we both prize this, value it, as the key, defining component of our relationship. 

Oftentimes, when I become upset by something, I take the time to recognize whether my upset is really about what he did/said or coming from deep inside me.  Its perfectly okay for me to have "my own issues" as long as I own them; just as he owns his personal responsibility to the relationship.

I don't expect more from SJ than I have expected from other men in other relationships, both vanilla and D/s.  What I do expect is what he has consistently delivered - open and honest communication, and beyond that - the availability to communicate at all times.

well wishes ~ fairer than she
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Are you sure?

I ask because I read on here, about s-types that will do ANYthing their M or D asks. About how special this type of relationship is.

For myself, I want the person to be able to call me on my shit. I have no problem admitting when I've been an ass. BUT, based upon what I've seen, not everyone is that way. We see thread after thread, drama after drama, "my Master/Mistress/Dominant did ***insert transgression here***, whateva should I dooooooooooooo?"

So it appears that not ALL power exchange relationships are thought of as relationships first and foremost.



_____________________________

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Recently honored with membership in the West Coast Assholes

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/16/2009 4:46:09 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		My vanilla friends who are happily married do not have adversarial relationships. If the man is going to embarrass himself and her by dressing wrongly, she'll tell him and he will bow to her better fashion sense. A car issue? She'll follow his advice. They seem to divide the outside problems by areas of expertise. Which makes sense.

If they can't agree, they talk it out, they compromise, they consult others who have had such an issue before.

My marriage was like that for many years, when it devolved to being an adversarial relationship instead of a team that in itself indicated the relationship was over.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/16/2009 1:56:46 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Well......it'd depend what was going on.

I can't be certain what would or wouldn't trample my relationship into the ground.

I probably DO have M on some kind of pedestal......but he's survived up there for many years. Maybe he's there for realistic reasons

There were a lot of questions in your post and I suppose, for me , I don't think to deeply about these kinds of things. I follow him all the while I can and it can be hard to say why sometimes. He looks very much like any other bloke to all intents and purposes.

I suppose that perhaps his *failings* simply haven't ever been the kind that would bring about the *end*......... and ditto mine. If he changed completely, and wasn't fundamentally, the person I cleaved to, then I could imagine things would change, probably horribly so.

You asked......

...So, what does happen when the M or D you thought you were collared to, or married to, does something that rocks that foundation of trust? If they behave like an utter ass, not only disgracing you, but themselves? How does that relationship survive, the s-type continue to submit to a person that is somehow less? How do you continue to submit to someone that hurt you, betrayed you, showed themselves to be less honourable, trustworthy, etc?

...I have no answer to that. There are just too many variables and situations that simply haven't arisen for me to know. The quick answer is that I perhaps couldn't continue to be owned, in the way that I am, to someone that had betrayed, hurt or been less than honourable and trustworthy. I am only guessing because I haven't been, and it's quite difficult to imagine it happening.

Despite ups and downs, despite difficult times where we've both struggled to find the page the other is on.......we've still managed to keep the core of what we chose, undamaged.

I didn't *want* M to be anything ........I chose him because he actually WAS what I wanted, for all his *bastardly ways*.

agirl



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/16/2009 2:32:58 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		its a funny thing, i have this idea of myself as this fiesty self determined sort who never puts up with crap on any level and yet, looking back i have time and again.  even with my 'nilla relationships.

here in BDSMland there is more at stake, god alone knows it can take some of us a hell of a time to find the right combination of human being to Master us - and thinking about it i may have been more fiesty with my D's and Ms than i ever was with my 'nilla's.

infact, looking back with the nilla's i walked away from, i did so very quietly but firmly.

trust here is soooooo freaking enormous, it is the linchpin, for me, for sure, if the trust is broken the inevitable unravelling of everything begins and there is nothing, nothing atall i can do to stop the process.  so i have got angry with D's and Ms in the past, ive told them in no uncertain terms how much its all over and contract or no freaking contract, collar or no collar if they make me that angry i will walk and i have.

i think its come as something of a shock even a surprise that someone so submissive can turn around and kick back quite as hard as i can.  but when something as important as this is to me gets pissed about with out of some stupid fantasy driven thoughtless moment then why not.

many Ds will say and Ms that when a sub or slave starts to really piss about there is no dynamic left to master.  the same goes from the other side and its as equally felt.

thats my fiesty side coming out  - but in reality for the most part if what i see is a human being with flaws and eccenticities and odd little quirks thats fine, thats cool, i love all of that, the quirkier and eccentric the better to be honest.

but broken trust doesnt mend and here where trust is so important and everyone knows how important it is, to abuse that trust is unforgiveable.



_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/16/2009 8:36:52 PM   
Eivarden


Posts: 101
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline 		Hmm, interesting to hear that you view M and s in this way.

I will have to admit, I've begun to lean in this direction as well.

The more I respect the M, the more deeper I am willing to submit.

Maybe not the worlds best way to do this, considering the numbers involved.

But none the less, it's one of the issues that kept me away from BDSM stuff for so long.

I mainly view people in power, as people who grow arrogant.

Which I don't respect, which in turn, made me feel I wouldn't be interested in anything BDSM related.

But yeah, with the numbers involved, dommes don't have to worry too much ( I can only assume) since it seems there is always someone who is desperate enough. (Not meant be offensive, but simply pointing out the number of guys who are willing to go as far as paying for being dominated.)

(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/17/2009 11:05:21 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		We're in our 50's. That being so, it is doubtful either of us is going to have a great shift. What you see is what you get.

I don't expect him to suddenly announce that actually he's gay or poly or something like that. Some enormous change that will greatly impact our lives and possibly break up the relationship.

As far as occasionally being too hard headed to see what he's doing? Oh yeah. Not only do I reserve the right to tell him he's being an idiot, this is one of my rules. He knows he's not perfect. He wants to take advantage of my intelligence and my viewpoints, so I'm supposed to tell him when he's doing something that I think will result in causing problems instead of fixing them.

Just like if we were driving somewhere and he lost focus on the road, I'm supposed to tell him "That's exit 21, that's our exit, it's a left exit and you need to move over if we want to take it". I'm not supposed to be quiet and allow him to take the wrong road and add three more hours to the trip.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/17/2009 8:46:48 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am not suggesting anything. I am just curious how submissives and slaves cope with this sort of issue. When you have put so much trust into a person being so much, how do you cope with the knowledge they aren't? How does it affect your submission and ultimately the relationship?



This really is a great question.  I've been there.  It wasn't easy.

In my case, I remained committed, while voicing my concerns.  But my concerns were not addressed, ever.  Since it had been ingrained in me to be transparent with my emotions, I continued to share them, and unfortunately they were growing in negativity as a result.  I continued to obey, and in his distractions, harm came to me as a result.  This led to huge confusion on my part, and I spent a lot of time questioning if I was in the right place.

But I lived my belief - A slave is "xyz" (according to my definition at the time) and therefore I will be "xyz" and I will endure this.  Meanwhile, my joy left me, and I was not doing well at all.  For whatever his reasons - he said it was for my good but I suspect it was also in large part for his own convenience of not having to deal with my response to what he had become, he let me go, without any conversation about it.

Hindsight is 20/20 and I see a lot of things very differently now.  I will not compromise who I am again, for anyone.  And if my owner makes a weird turn, I'm going to need to talk about it.  And if he refuses, I'm going to go away.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/18/2009 12:58:41 AM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

But does there come a point, when he refuses to grow and change, when your trust is broken and the man you thought you knew and were submitting to, ceases to exist? 

quote:

when he refuses to grow and change,

Would you be so kind as to explain this reference

_____________________________

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(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/18/2009 1:57:40 AM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		This:

It is how he conducts himself in light of those times that determines my trust. It is what separates the men from the boys so to speak. I expect the ability to recognize and admit fault, to grow and learn from it, accept consequences without complaint, and to heal and forgive himself. If he can manage these, then he is still someone I trust to manage me.(Lovingpet)

and this:

I will not compromise who I am again, for anyone.  And if my owner makes a weird turn, I'm going to need to talk about it.  And if he refuses, I'm going to go away.


Communication being the key here. If you can't talk about it, you're done.



_____________________________

Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?




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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/18/2009 6:28:10 AM   
TwistedHeart74


Posts: 722
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
I am not suggesting anything. I am just curious how submissives and slaves cope with this sort of issue. When you have put so much trust into a person being so much, how do you cope with the knowledge they aren't? How does it affect your submission and ultimately the relationship?




The same way I would in a vanilla situation. I'm a believer in second chances and giving someone the opportunity to correct a mistake. But, there comes a point where if you grow apart then it's time to end it. If he cheats, that to me is the unforgivable. If he hits me in anger (i.e. abuse) it's over. We're all human and IMO it is too easy these days to put someone up on a pedastal and when they fall off just toss them to the side and bemoan what a jerk they were.
Endings are easy, taking the time and putting forth the effort to make a relationship work is hard. We are all going to screw the pooch at some point. The question becomes...did he/she violate the inner rules you have that are deal breakers? Or did he/she make a mistake, an error in judgement or whatever that can be forgiven?

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/18/2009 11:19:20 AM   
NyDaddysGirl


Posts: 75
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
but broken trust doesnt mend and here where trust is so important and everyone knows how important it is, to abuse that trust is unforgiveable.


quote:

ORIGINAL: TwistedHeart74
If he cheats, that to me is the unforgivable.


Both of these quotes rang true for me.

My past relationships have been of a nature where I never had to "edit" or "filter" what I say and I don't think I could be in a relationship where I had to "edit" or "filter" what comes out of my mouth.  That being said, I don't have any difficulty saying "if xyz, we're done, it's over".

I was in what I thought was the perfect relationship with someone I adored.  Similar to IrishMist's posting, there was much I endured though the relationship emotionally, physically and mentally... even financially.  There wasn't anything I wouldn't have done for that man.  There was one thing that I am not able to budge on and that is being cheated on.  That is the ultimate betrayal, in my opinion.  That's what he did.  After 5 years, he cheated on me and then lied about it.  I severed the relationship immediately (actually throwing him out) and I never looked back.  It was really, really difficult and painful, like a death in the family.  I actually mourned the loss, but I never, ever considered compromising myself and taking him back.

To me, trust is the cement that holds long-term, solid relationships together regardless of the nature of the relationship.  If someone betrays that trust, there's no relationship. 

_____________________________

I have no fear of falling, I just hate hitting the ground ~ Badlees

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Who are You and where did You come from?!?! - 9/19/2009 8:05:40 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I've been thinking about something for a day or so. We debate back and forth on the differences between vanilla and M/s or D/s relationships. Usually, for me, it's really not that big a chasm. But for others, and yes I do see it, there are differences.

I've maintained several vanilla relationships, of various sorts, for over 20 years. The are all pretty sound and very important to me. However, they are not structured in a manner I want a M/s relationship structured. There is not the transparency I demand and give, to an s-type. I don't see the need. It's not asked for, expected, or even wanted. They are just different, for different reasons.

Now, the reason I am bringing this here. I read on here all the time about ideal D or M type qualities. It appears that most s-types hold their D or M, to a higher standard than many people in a non power exchange relationship. For some, good reason. If I were going to give over total control of my life and well being, I would be more concerned about a variety of things I otherwise wouldn't.

I know that when I realized this was the type of relationship I wanted, I needed to do a lot of work on me. I wanted to be the type of person worthy of someone submitting to. Worthy of that trust. In ways that no vanilla relationship needed.

There really is a quality to these types of relationships that, at least in MY eyes, demands the M or D, be more. More trustworthy, more accountable, more responsible, more honourable............etc etc etc. I mean, as a vanilla wife, I sure as HELL was never punished. He never managed my money or bills. He had no say in how I raised my children. None in how I conducted myself in public. Or whether or not I attended an event or how I dressed if I did. And the list goes on.

So, what does happen when the M or D you thought you were collared to, or married to, does something that rocks that foundation of trust? If they behave like an utter ass, not only disgracing you, but themselves? How does that relationship survive, the s-type continue to submit to a person that is somehow less? How do you continue to submit to someone that hurt you, betrayed you, showed themselves to be less honourable, trustworthy, etc?

Now perhaps I am just reading more into this than exists. Maybe it really is just an illusion and these are all, just relationships. We ignore, accept, one another's failings. Stick our heads in the sand and try to focus on their good qualities, ignoring the needs we had that lead us to this type of relationship. Because of course, an s-type, especially a good slave, accepted that collar and have to suck it up. Regardless of whether the M or D is the person they wanted them to be or not?

Most non power exchange relationships, both parties have more freedom to express, "your being a schmuck!! Knock it off or we are OVER!"

I am not suggesting anything. I am just curious how submissives and slaves cope with this sort of issue. When you have put so much trust into a person being so much, how do you cope with the knowledge they aren't? How does it affect your submission and ultimately the relationship?




Sigh, very tough questions. Yes, people make mistakes or change over time. Some people learn from their mistakes. Some don't. Some learn some things but not other things. Some people just inately trust their intuition about others, some have to rationalize and understand a relationship. Some people have had their intuition validated by a good experience; others have had it shot to hell.

All I can say is, I look long and carefully before I leap. I rely 90% on intuition, on a sense that isn't rational, as far as I can tell. But you could say the same thing about smell. There's nothing rational or logical about it: it's just a sense, a way of getting information. But its lack of logic doesn't invalidate smell or make it false.

After I leap, I try to stay where I am, no matter what, and see what happens. It's not as easy as it sounds, obviously. :) Some people learn best or are the most satisfied by having a sequence of different or new experiences. There's nothing wrong with that, but I've never been that way. I've always perferred , in all aspects of life, to have have just one (or a very few) experiences but go deeper and deeper into it/them. It's just the way I naturally gravitate. Sometimes I may want to leave, I think every slave has that thought at one time or another, but I tend to attract the sort who'd hunt me down and drag me back by my hair if I were to try something that stupid or wrong. And so far (crosses fingers) I've never tried anything like that.

Maybe I've been lucky (actually, it's probably inexperience, I haven't had a lot of partners), but I've never experienced anyone I've been with since my 20s "actiing like a total ass." Big mistakes made that really hurt? Yes. Huge changes due to illness? Sure. But something that rocked the trust foundations? Nope. My experience was a lot like Irish Mist's. And for me, it just seems the normal way for such experiences to be.

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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