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Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the... - 9/18/2009 6:32:57 PM

stella41b

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Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right
The Republicans now make the Tories at their worst seem achingly inclusive

As we gloomily maintain the deathbed vigil for a Government whose end cannot come soon enough, it is the opposite end of the life-cycle that fixates US politics. Fittingly enough, on the eve of the nine-month anniversary of Barack Obama's election, America obsesses about the President's birth, and specifically his birthplace.

The gestation period for any conspiracy theory is far longer than that for human infants, of course, or even elephants. It tends, in fact, to be endless. It is 45 years since JFK was murdered, 40 since the first moon walk, and almost eight since the Twin Towers fell, and while the various notions (second gunman, studio mock-up, Mossad plot) were conceived almost immediately after those events, they have yet to deliver anything more substantial than lovingly nurtured insanity.

That rag-tag coalition of shock jocks, publicity hungry attorneys, the credulous and simple-minded, plain nutters and above all frustrated racists collectively known as "the birthers" have spent a year banging on about Mr Obama's arrival in this world, and their successors will be banging on about it long after he's left it for the next.

Article: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/matthew-norman/matthew-norman-the-insanity-and-enduring-racism-of-the-american-right-1764520.html

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/18/2009 7:09:13 PM

Arpig

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Sheesh Stella, why didn't you just post this on the Jimmy carter thread...we really don't need two fights over the same thing do we?

I will recap my position from the other thread: The element of racism in the opposition to Obama is greater than the right would like to acknowledge, and not as great as the left would like to pretend.

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/18/2009 7:16:09 PM

Lucylastic

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Ive had many conversations over the past couple of weeks with friends in the UK and many are saying the same things.
this made me smile
" What is more intriguing about the birther "movement" – even than Orly's professional range – is the light it casts on the necrotic state of the American right. Concerns that the Grand Old Party would respond to Obama's near landslide by aping the post-1997 Tories, and adhering to the Tebbitian doctrine that the only mistake was in not being nasty and insular enough, prove naïve. The Republicans now make the Tories at their dog-whistling absolute worst seem achingly inclusive."
I remember Tebbit only too well, and yep the repubs are far worse. I wonder what spitting image would make of all this.
Thats the first time Ive read a UK op-ed for a while, thanks Stella
Lucy

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/18/2009 7:58:38 PM

rulemylife

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This from your link is my biggest fear:

The likes of Orly Taitz will parlay the issue into regular slots on Fox & Friends, countless more will kid themselves that their objection is constitutional rather than racial, and a few will be emboldened to hatch plots to uphold their patriotic ideals via an assassin's gun.

The mindless anger people like Taitz, Beck, and Limbaugh are inciting is getting scary.

Obama Birth Certificate Update - Latest on Obama Birth Certificate

Then there's Orly Taitz, queen of the "birthers," who brings outrageous thinking to a whole new level. This was her at the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot in Kentucky, which I touched on here last week, well before the town-hall tirades took over the airwaves.

This was her four months ago, shouting over the gunfire in a thin, shrill voice: "I am extremely concerned about Obama specifically because I was born in Soviet Union, so I can tell that he is extremely dangerous. I believe he is the most dangerous thing one can imagine, in that he represents radical communism and radical Islam: He was born and raised in radical Islam, all of his associations are with radical Islam, and he was groomed in the environment of the dirty Chicago mafia. Can there be anything scarier than that?"

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/18/2009 8:04:40 PM

Irishknight

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That last statement posted by rulemylife reminds me of the youtube video of the idiot girl addressing the courtroom in California. "And we should grow organic food .. because pesticides are bad... but people need food and stuff...."

The fact that these people get air time makes me glad that I don't watch TV.

< Message edited by Irishknight -- 9/18/2009 8:06:01 PM >

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/18/2009 8:33:32 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
I remember Tebbit only too well, and yep the repubs are far worse.

A lot of the American public is deliberately misinformed, or disinformed, which is what makes Tebbit seem so harmless in comparison to his colleagues on the American right.

Although I know that the American right is farting a lot higher than its arse - they have Fox News on their side, which is a huge publicity machine. I wonder how much they'd be heard without it?

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/18/2009 9:34:02 PM

hizgeorgiapeach

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Sheesh Stella, why didn't you just post this on the Jimmy carter thread...we really don't need two fights over the same thing do we?

I will recap my position from the other thread: The element of racism in the opposition to Obama is greater than the right would like to acknowledge, and not as great as the left would like to pretend.

I find the whole idea more Amusing than anything else. When the election happened back in November of last year - I had several people tell me that the ONLY reason someone would Not vote for Obama was if they were a racist. Never mind whether we agreed with him politically, thought he was honestly the best person for the job, etc - if we voted for Anyone OTHER than him, we were a racist, and "part of the problem." I heard it from people here at CM via cmail. I heard it from aquaintances who were obsessed with the impending election at the time. Hell, I heard it from strangers while standing in line waiting to vote, who had no clue which party I was registered with or how I intended to cast my vote!

I didn't vote for him. I still wouldn't vote for him. Then again, I also didn't vote for his republican opponent, either. I didn't feel either of them was a good choice - I still don't, and unless things change Significantly over the course of the next 3 years I probably still won't when the next election comes around. (Of course, that's assuming that everything doesn't colapse even further and bring the whole world to an end prior to that ;) ) Did his race have anything to do with it? Not then, not now, not ever. It has to do with the fact that he - like Everyone who manages to get to a point where they Can be elected - is a Professional Politician. Which in my book places them on the evolutionary scale about .00000009 centimeters above aemoba as a life form in general. Black, white, yellow, red, pink... hell, green with purple polka dots.... they're all politicians, therefore they're all scum.

Will this attitude continue to get me labled as a "racist" because I'm not an Obama partisan? Probably. Do I Care that some morons will continue to think that his race had anything to do with how I voted, how I intend to vote in the future barring significant changes in circumstances, or that they'll continue to bandy a meaningless lable to prop themselves up and try to make me tow the line and fall into goosestep with popular opinion? Not a chance.

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 12:27:46 AM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
I remember Tebbit only too well, and yep the repubs are far worse.

A lot of the American public is deliberately misinformed, or disinformed, which is what makes Tebbit seem so harmless in comparison to his colleagues on the American right.

Although I know that the American right is farting a lot higher than its arse - they have Fox News on their side, which is a huge publicity machine. I wonder how much they'd be heard without it?

Not much. Fox news is one thing but the incessant lying by their talking heads is getting ridiculous. Fox politics is opiate for the right.

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 1:23:23 AM

TheHeretic

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This is pretty fucking funny, I have to say. A thread started by non-Americans about how our opposition to a President is racist. It's ridiculous on so many levels. To start with, the only actually racist Obama emails I get are from a lifelong yellow-dog Democrat who voted for him. Does the concept of someone separating a taste for racist jokes from being willing to vote for and support a black President even compute in the minds of the folks spouting this crap?

Where it really gets funny is when we point out that one side has opposed and demonized Presidents of the other side for every Presidential term in my lifetime, at a minimum. The very suggestion that we now need to stop that, and have a different standard because the United States elected a black guy, is rolling on the floor funny at best, and despicably racist at worst.

We need to treat him differently because of the color of his skin??? Who are the fucking racists again?

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 7:53:44 AM

MichiganHeadmast

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Not this shit again.

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 8:25:41 AM

Sanity

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quote:

A thread started by non-Americans about how our opposition to a President is racist...

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 10:08:25 AM

DomImus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

This is pretty fucking funny, I have to say. A thread started by non-Americans about how our opposition to a President is racist. It's ridiculous on so many levels. To start with, the only actually racist Obama emails I get are from a lifelong yellow-dog Democrat who voted for him. Does the concept of someone separating a taste for racist jokes from being willing to vote for and support a black President even compute in the minds of the folks spouting this crap?

Where it really gets funny is when we point out that one side has opposed and demonized Presidents of the other side for every Presidential term in my lifetime, at a minimum. The very suggestion that we now need to stop that, and have a different standard because the United States elected a black guy, is rolling on the floor funny at best, and despicably racist at worst.

We need to treat him differently because of the color of his skin? Who are the fucking racists again?

Or at the very least can we now apply the race card retroactively in a unilateral fashion? Let's now recognize all of the grief that President Bush suffered at the hands of the black community after Hurricane Katrina for what it really was.

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 10:47:55 AM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

Or at the very least can we now apply the race card retroactively in a unilateral fashion? Let's now recognize all of the grief that President Bush suffered at the hands of the black community after Hurricane Katrina for what it really was. ORIGINAL: DomImus

Once again, I am struck by the tragedy of us poor, abused, white, male, Americans. How terrible it is that sometimes we get called racist when it isn't true in that particular case. How awful it is to have someone do something unpleasant to us because of our skin color. Black people, Hispanics, Asians can't possibly know what that feels like.

You know, the whining that I'm hearing from anyone who feels that this is the issue that needs to be addressed on the scale of redressing racial inequalities only reinforces exactly how well we have it comparatively. Forget the economic, educational and law enforcement inequalities that go on every day, all balanced in favor of white males. Those things are just a statistical anomaly. The important thing to address, decry and stamp out is perhaps having someone say something mean about you.

I think black groups should start holding fund raisers so that white people wont be subject to this horror any more. What issue could be more important?

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 10:51:39 AM

DomImus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
Once again, I am struck by the tragedy of us poor, abused, white, male, Americans. How terrible it is that sometimes we get called racist when it isn't true in that particular case. How awful it is to have someone do something unpleasant to us because of our skin color. Black people, Hispanics, Asians can't possibly know what that feels like.

You know, the whining that I'm hearing from anyone who feels that this is the issue that needs to be addressed on the scale of redressing racial inequalities only reinforces exactly how well we have it comparatively. Forget the economic, educational and law enforcement inequalities that go on every day, all balanced in favor of white males. Those things are just a statistical anomaly. The important thing to address, decry and stamp out is perhaps having someone say something mean about you.

I think black groups should start holding fund raisers so that white people wont be subject to this horror any more. What issue could be more important?

I'm not sure I understood what you were saying underneath your usual pompous, condescending sarcasm. Were you agreeing with me?

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 10:56:59 AM

Sanity

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What a crock of shit. Its not "all balanced in favor of white males", there are all kinds of laws placing white males last for everything from college admissions to public and private jobs and advancement and more. Did you miss out on the Sotomayor controversy, where one of her most notable rulings effectively barred white firefighters from advancements because so few minorities qualified for advancement?

Sotomayor herself was nominated because she wasn't a white male.

Please...

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 11:00:22 AM

hlen5

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(I'm fairly sure he was).

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 11:04:39 AM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

I'm not sure I understood what you were saying underneath your usual pompous, condescending sarcasm. Were you agreeing with me? ORIGINAL: DomImus

No..what I was saying was, that this over dramatized wailing over the fact that some white people have been accused of racism currently is both hypocritical and an attempt to deny far more important racial inequities that exist very clearly in this country. What I am saying is that if these greater inequalities were treated with half the indignant rage that this whole "they called me a racist" issue has received, there might be a whole lot less anger by those affected by those inequalities. What I am saying is that I feel that this horror over maybe being called a name because of being whit is equivalent to a person with a stubbed toe screaming to a person who's leg has been torn off that they deserve to see the doctor first.

There, no sarcasm, pompous or otherwise, in that one, Dom....does that make my position clear.

Oh, and by the way, in my opinion, if the survivors of Katrina had been equally as poor and white instead of overwhelmingly black, the Bush administration would have been equally inefficient and unhelpful. I do not, however believe that if these survivors had been white, that the good people of surrounding towns would have shot at them with shot guns as they tried to get out of the city to safety. I am equally sure that, even if they had done so, they would not be on videotape referring to it as "coon hunting".

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 11:14:24 AM

Estring

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Wow, where was the outcry when Clarence Thomas was villified for daring to be a "conservative" black man and not be a real black man? Talk about racism. I would dare say that many people who DID vote for Obama are now unhappy with his performance. Did they suddenly become racists?

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 11:18:03 AM

tazzygirl

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Charlestion SC, facing Hugo... was a ghost town when it hit. Mytle Beach, 90 minutes north of Charleston, was the same way, with the exception of the major hospital, who received fines for not evacuating in time. Complaints of long lines to get back in by the citizens... roads were blocked until everything could be checked out.

Sadly, this wasnt the case during Katrina.

I dont believe it was racism... i do believe it was money motivated. I also believe that because the people who remained were black, it gave many the ability to justify to themselves that it wasnt something they should worry about. It still boggles me that a hosptial was not evacuated because its name had changed and no one could find it on the maps.

For me, that will always be the legacy of Bush Jr... not 9/11... not the financial mess... but the event that killed a city... and our government pointed fingers.

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RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of... - 9/19/2009 11:19:07 AM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

What a crock of shit. Its not "all balanced in favor of white males", there are all kinds of laws placing white males last for everything from college admissions to public and private jobs and advancement and more. Did you miss out on the Sotomayor controversy, where one of her most notable rulings effectively barred white firefighters from advancements because so few minorities qualified for advancement?

Sotomayor herself was nominated because she wasn't a white male.
ORIGINAL: Sanity

You prove my point very well, Sanity. The case you cited was not to hear a case of a white firefighter who claimed that he had been denied promotion unfairly when the test used for promotion was questioned for being biased. Even if, and I tend to support this, that the decision to alter the promotion criteria after the test was given was incorrect, it was a very small number of white guys who had their rights affected. But let's look at your phrase...."notable rulings effectively barred white firefighters from advancements"....At best it's an incredible exaggeration. At worst it is a lie. And once again I point out that some, your own postings putting you among that number, view one white male getting any hint of less than a 'fair shake" as the equal to or greater than any large scale, systemic discrimination that might exist towards other races.

And just to mention, I find it notable that in your protest against the horrible racism white males face in this society, you make what I find an incredibly racist statement. "Sotomayor herself was nominated because she wasn't a white male." Where in hell do you come up with this? Is her judicial record so clearly less than other supreme court appointees that the fact that she wasn't a white male be the only reason to nominate her? Was there anything about her resume that makes it so clear that she was not fit to be on the supreme court? No. Where, if not from racism, comes this assertion that her race or gender was the determining factor in her nomination?

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