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Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 8:39:01 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		There seems to be people in our community that place us kinksters on a pedastal in the moral/ethical fields. I continually read/hear people talking about how they place more trust in their BDSM lifestyle friends and family than their vanilla friends and family. I have read posts and heard people talk about how we have a deeper level of trust in our relationships, a stronger bond, more commitment to making it work, etc.

We are such a diverse community so varied in socio-economic status, creed, race, sexual identity, religion or lack thereof. We have little organization on the local level and none on the global. My belief is we are simply tied together by the fact that we are considered sexually deviant. And even the terms that we use to identify ourselves vary greatly from person to person.

I don't understand anyone making such generalized assumptions. I do understand that some people have the need to place a higher value system on those that they feel kinship with. My own example of having experienced this way of thinking follows.


The morning after a play party I was unpacking my toybag. I didn't have my favorite flogger. I either left it behind or it got packed up in someone else's bag by mistake, no big deal. I called the party host, she checked her dungeon and the rest of the house, no flogger. I sent an email to each and every person that had attended the party requesting that they please check their toybags as my flogger must have been inadvertently picked up.

I received emails back saying that they either checked their toybags and found nothing additional, or that they too were missing a toy. For a week emails going out and coming in asking about the missing toys and no forward progress. Someone finally came to the conclusion that the toys had been stolen and voiced it via email.

The next set of emails discussed allowing the theif to mail the toys back with no return address, a drop spot, etc...

These emails were followed by a torrent of emails expressing betrayal, forgiveness, the willingness to sacrifice a toy for a friendship, and on and on it went. Until one email stated that the sender felt particularly betrayed because this "happened in our community" and that he "trusted us more than vanillas".

The sender went on to discuss how our community is based on trust. While I understand that many trust the community to keep a level of anonymity, I fail to agree with the stance that puts us on a higher level of morality and values than others.

Your thoughts?

< Message edited by yourMissTress -- 3/1/2006 8:40:10 AM >

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Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother
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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 8:42:00 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It goes along with the "we communicate better" and the "we have better sex" and the "we know ourselves more" and the "we're more clearly defined" and other slew of elitisms that pop up in EVERY sub culture.

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 8:44:40 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I don't trust anyone based on any group identification they might have.

But I can, in general, me more the real me and less the socially polite me with other kinky people than with vanilla people just because there's some shared terms and ideas.

Because my sexuality is tied to my BDSM I do know that a failed kinky relationship seems to hurt me a lot more and that hurt lasts longer than strictly vanilla failures.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 8:51:09 AM   
Bunkerchief


Posts: 14
Joined: 5/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

It goes along with the "we communicate better" and the "we have better sex" and the "we know ourselves more" and the "we're more clearly defined" and other slew of elitisms that pop up in EVERY sub culture.


Good point. While I agree with the starter of this thread that you can't trust anyone in the community more than any other community, the community does often congratulate itself on being (to quote LuckyAlbatross) "we communicate better" and the "we have better sex" and the "we know ourselves more" and the "we're more clearly defined"

Perhaps as a community we are too sanctimonius and should take a reality check.

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 8:52:25 AM   
Oumae


Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		Its like any group...there are good and bad, honest, dishonest etc.

The only thing better about it for me is that it suits me.

Oumae

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Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 8:59:29 AM   
pollux


Posts: 657
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

There seems to be people in our community that place us kinksters on a pedastal in the moral/ethical fields. I continually read/hear people talking about how they place more trust in their BDSM lifestyle friends and family than their vanilla friends and family. I have read posts and heard people talk about how we have a deeper level of trust in our relationships, a stronger bond, more commitment to making it work, etc.

...

Your thoughts?


As a relative newbie, I have to confess to holding the opposite view.

It's been my experience in my brief time that there's more hurt and distrust and dishonesty and lack of integrity and flat out anti-social behavior in the scene than in the vanilla world.

I hate to say that, but it has been my experience. I'm hoping that as I meet more people and "get out" a bit more, that I'm able to reverse or balance that perception.

I do believe that well-adjusted, healthy kinksters can have a more well-developed understanding of their sexuality (and we've had threads about that), but in terms of ethics? I think the scene is worse, frankly.

< Message edited by pollux -- 3/1/2006 9:00:26 AM >

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 9:01:32 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		There is a similar discussion going on in another thread.
One of my pet peeves is the fact that many seem to think the lifestyle is special with people who set and live by higher standards. It just isn't true. It's a mixed bag, just like you find anywhere in life.



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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 9:07:28 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

As a relative newbie, I have to confess to holding the opposite view.

It's been my experience in my brief time that there's more hurt and distrust and dishonesty and lack of integrity and flat out anti-social behavior in the scene than in the vanilla world.

I hate to say that, but it has been my experience. I'm hoping that as I meet more people and "get out" a bit more, that I'm able to reverse or balance that perception.

I do believe that well-adjusted, healthy kinksters can have a more well-developed understanding of their sexuality (and we've had threads about that), but in terms of ethics? I think the scene is worse, frankly.


Don't worry, your own depravity is only just beginning. Your absolute corruption is just around the bend. The unstoppable forces have you in their potent grasp.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 3/1/2006 9:08:22 AM >

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 9:12:03 AM   
LRODANDMASTER


Posts: 161
Joined: 7/13/2005
Status: offline 		OFF COURSE THIS LIFESTYLE IS BETTER BECUZ IM IN IT

I MEAN LIKE WHY WOLUD U WANT 2 BE IN A LIFESTYLE WERE THEY DONT EVEN TYE EACH OTHER UP?

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LRODANDMASTER TYPE LIKE DUMASS BUT HIM NO DUMASS

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 9:16:34 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LRODANDMASTER

OFF COURSE THIS LIFESTYLE IS BETTER BECUZ IM IN IT

I MEAN LIKE WHY WOLUD U WANT 2 BE IN A LIFESTYLE WERE THEY DONT EVEN TYE EACH OTHER UP?


OMG, you crack me up!!!

I really do wish you would post more often!!

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Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 9:18:12 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

There is a similar discussion going on in another thread.


which is what spurred me to start this one...

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Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 9:20:39 AM   
RosaB


Posts: 852
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I tend to believe we are no more or less trustworty, intelligent, in touch, better in any way than any other community of people. We are just human beings with a different taste for for how we approach certain aspects of our lives. I once thought we had more insight, but I know better now as I've come in contact with a more diverse group of people in the general kink community. I too at one time believed there was more of a bond associated with what we do, I think it's only true relative to the individual and that can be in any type of relationship, bdsm or otherwise. Some people just give more to their relationships, loving someone just means more, it gets under the skin in ways some can't grasp.

My first community exposures were mostly related to people that had the best interest of the community at heart. These people were well versed kinksters and so I was pretty spoiled, a bit naive and thought most everyone was as ethical as that particular group of individuals, but, for the good, life's lessons taught me never again to assume anything about any group association. We're all just people, some good, some not so good, some misguided, some down right with intent to do no good.

Rosa

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 9:22:06 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Nope, not in the slightest. As one who till this time round primaraly ended up looking in more vanilla fields for a partner. I can definatly say it is just as bloody hard to find someone you can develop trust with in the BDSM D/s community as it is anywhere else.

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This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 9:33:48 AM   
Guest
quote:

we have a deeper level of trust in our relationships, a stronger bond, more commitment to making it work, etc


This is one of the big attractions to me about this.

But I also agree with some of the others in that, yes there are bad people in every scene. The deeper trust we do have just makes it worse. kind of a two sided opinion on this one I guess you could say. But regardless no matter what scene or relationship or community it is in the violation of trust is one of the worst offences a person can make to another.

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 9:39:14 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I don't understand anyone making such generalized assumptions...Your thoughts?


right with you there, MissTress. when asking why people make such generalizations, whether they are talking about ALL slaves or ALL Doms or ALL folk who are kinky, being __________ or doing _________________ or feeling _________________, this slave has been told by various folk that they do it in order to make someone else feel better, or themselves feel better about their situation. they also might be doing it to denigrate another person or their choices in life, in an attempt to make someone else feel poorly about themselves or their situation, or themselves feel better.

sometimes, even more insidious, are the folk that make generalized assumptions about their preferences or their futures, that they couldn't possibly know because they have neither tried it themselves, nor are they psychic.

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 9:42:33 AM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		People are people are people are people.

any group you find yourself in is a cross-section of humanity, and given to the same WONDERFUL traits that run the gambit from angelic to demonic. I am thrilled to be a part of it all :) and I am always in good company wherever I go.

Even when I am by myself, all of these tremendous things that make up so glorious an animal as a "human" are within me.

A note about pedastals. When ever you put someone (or some group) on a pedastal it is a dehumanizing experience. It strips them of their individuality and human dignity and turns them into an ideal. YOu never understand the person (or people) involved and are constantly trying to get them to live up to the picture in your mind of what they SHOULD be.

It is a control game, and not one I like to play in my kinky control games ;)

fergus

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 9:55:58 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fergus
Even when I am by myself, all of these tremendous things that make up so glorious an animal as a "human" are within me.


You have a way with words Fergus.... that particularly reminded be of the following piece by the Bard....

What a piece of work is man!
How noble in reason!
how infinite in faculty!
in form, in moving,
how express and admirable!
in action how like an angel!
in apprehension how like a god!
the beauty of the world!
the paragon of animals!


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 10:03:25 AM   
FTopinMichigan


Posts: 571
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline 		I know that I have posted something similar to having a more general trust for the community folks, in that I feel I have stronger and more open communications with the people that I know. In truth, it's the "people" I know, and shouldn't be a generalization to the BDSM community as a whole.

But, trust is at the forefront of any, or at least with most BDSM oriented relationships, and with that understanding, I don't think it's necessarily wrong thinking to see "trust" being an important issue for all of us, regardless of the connection.


quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress
The morning after a play party I was unpacking my toybag. I didn't have my favorite flogger. I either left it behind or it got packed up in someone else's bag by mistake, no big deal.


I lost a special gift, of a homemade toy, specially made for me, from a friend. Of course no one claimed to have it, and it was lost forever (at least for two years now).

A friend of mine used to have parties in her home. When moving furniture, she found a toy snuggled tight in the cushions. She had no idea when or where it came from (it could've been there for years even), but that it obviously was from someone attending a party. Toys get lost, or packed away and forgotten. I don't know about you, but I take only certain toys to a party (primarily to enjoy my favorites, but also to keep track of them), and when I come home, I might throw the bag in the front bedroom, where it could sit for awhile. I have so many toys, I just grab others when packing again. Perhaps it's still just an issue of a lost toy, in the place you attended the party, or it's still sitting in someone's bag, and the person hasn't found it themselves. I think some of the respondents attacking/accusing someone for deliberate theft may be premature, or even unfounded. It might also cause the 'finder" to shy away from revealing that they inadvertently have it. And yes...it could've been stolen. I always hope for the best though. I do hope it's returned to you, no matter how long ago it was.

K

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 10:09:23 AM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: fergus
Even when I am by myself, all of these tremendous things that make up so glorious an animal as a "human" are within me.


You have a way with words Fergus.... that particularly reminded be of the following piece by the Bard....

What a piece of work is man!
How noble in reason!
how infinite in faculty!
in form, in moving,
how express and admirable!
in action how like an angel!
in apprehension how like a god!
the beauty of the world!
the paragon of animals!



Thank you RavenMuse :)

fergus

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RE: Kinky equals Trustworthy? - 3/1/2006 10:12:27 AM   
MyCaptainsPet


Posts: 219
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline 		i'm probably in the minority here... but i don't trust anyone until they gain it from me. Everyone, family, friends, co-workers, lovers have to gain my trust and give me a reason TO trust them.

On the same lines.... once i've given my trust and it's been broken, it takes a long long long time to gain it back... IF ever (depending on the situation)

But i guess that's just me... after all, i'm just the sum of my life experiences...

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