RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies.

RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (Full Version)

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porcelaine -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 3:53:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit This is the trouble of taking one scripture and condensing the whole of the bible to fit that scripture. There were female leaders in the bible. true but the bible was recorded by men who hailed from a patriarchal society that had no desire to share power with women or have it usurped either. women traveled with the disciples and there were leaders in the church, some referred to as prophetesses. one even traveled with paul, although she's absent from the canon. imagine that. you can read about thecla and the rest in other texts. porcelaine

Lockit -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 3:55:16 PM)
Very true!

mnottertail -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 3:58:55 PM)
Well, it is an allegory, a poem....... the material thing here though, and what I was answering is the spare the rod and spoil the child thing.......nowadays, the idea of this 'rod' might be considered a pretty daunting dowel or shaft of iron. so, my use of that poem was not for the context of what the verse was about to explicate that if the verse would have said: Spare the staff and spoil the child....... that would be a hella beating, whereas the rod is a good ol' go fetch me up a switch thing. So, in that regard, porcelaine: You lose, take off your pants. and like David, you may go to the temple and gnash your teeth and wail and beg G-d to change his mind, G-d does not find fault in that, but once the situation is finalized, you clean yourself, compose yourself, and do obiesance. LOL, Rabbi David Nebbish

DesFIP -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:00:17 PM)
Actually if we consider the rod to be a shepherd's rod, they were not employed in beating the sheep. The rod, with the crook on the end, was used to pull a sheep out of danger. Sheep don't learn from being beaten except to avoid the owner. Beyond that, beating children causes them to break the commandment of honoring thy fathers and mothers. Because you, by beating them, are causing them to dislike you, disrespect you, and dishonor you. So in order for a child to be able to become an adult who keeps that covenant, their parents have the onus of raising them in such a way that they can respect and honor the parent. Which is why spanking after B'nai Mitzvah is prohibited.

GoDolphins -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:02:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: GoDolphins There are a few explanations I could think of. My guess is that she's probably a "non-practicing" Christian. In other words, she believes in God, believes in Jesus, but it's not really a real part of her life. In other words, she's a Christian by name only (trying not to sound judgmental here as we all struggle with this at one time or another, and I myself have and unfortunately still do to some extent, so I definitely can't condemn her for it, but it's the truth). I would say a lot of Christians fit this level. Another explanation I can think of is that she's a new Christian. There are a number of things I could think of. so she's a lapsed christian because she promotes financial dominance and openly states she will take their money, which they must be willing to give but that's another argument. but you see no contradiction with your presence on this site, something i'm willing to bet you couldn't go back to your local church group and discuss. single or not. so if she's lapsed, where does that leave you and others like you? cause i'm just trying to understand how one can be a spade and the other isn't. porcelaine You might should read what is actually written before trying to go after someone. My issue with her is her general attitude towards people, not her interests. I never once mentioned financial domination. Actually, while I wouldn't bring this up at church, some of the people I go to church with are probably more open-minded than a lot of people on this site.

porcelaine -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:06:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail So, in that regard, porcelaine: You lose, take off your pants. and like David, you may go to the temple and gnash your teeth and wail and beg G-d to change his mind, G-d does not find fault in that, but once the situation is finalized, you clean yourself, compose yourself, and do obiesance. LOL, Rabbi David Nebbish since when did you start giving me orders? grins and unless you're paying for my trip to the mikvah i think i'll pass. of course you could sweeten the deal and build me one since you've got lots of room. snickers the transforming shiksa... porcelaine

porcelaine -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:08:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoDolphins You might should read what is actually written before trying to go after someone. My issue with her is her general attitude towards people, not her interests. I never once mentioned financial domination. Actually, while I wouldn't bring this up at church, some of the people I go to church with are probably more open-minded than a lot of people on this site. no, i read what you wrote. i just wondered if you did the same. your issue with her is moot. which is why i raised the issue about your congregation. because they'd take issue with you being here. see the problem? same issue called judgment. i couldn't care less what you do with your time. but i don't think you can assess her spirituality and relationship with G-d based on a few lines of text. much like i can't gauge yours nor do i wish to. porcelaine

mnottertail -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:12:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail So, in that regard, porcelaine: You lose, take off your pants. and like David, you may go to the temple and gnash your teeth and wail and beg G-d to change his mind, G-d does not find fault in that, but once the situation is finalized, you clean yourself, compose yourself, and do obiesance. LOL, Rabbi David Nebbish since when did you start giving me orders? grins and unless you're paying for my trip to the mikvah i think i'll pass. of course you could sweeten the deal and build me one since you've got lots of room. snickers the transforming shiksa... porcelaine And for comporting herself like Jezebel.....perhaps the third or fourth ring of hell in some humiliating auto-de-fay is appropriate. Rabbi Mortie Gonnif, Sanhedron in conjunction with Cardinal Xerxes, Spanish Inquisition.

Lockit -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:15:01 PM)
LOL...

porcelaine -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:19:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail And for comporting herself like Jezebel.....perhaps the third or fourth ring of hell in some humiliating auto-de-fay is appropriate. Rabbi Mortie Gonnif, Sanhedron in conjunction with Cardinal Xerxes, Spanish Inquisition. nope, that was esther in disguise. you disappoint me. skips off to talk to the watchtowers to keep that nutty cardinal at bay the kabbalist and former ceremonialist on high... 93/93 porcelaine

Elipsis -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:20:24 PM)
Hard agnostic here. No issues. ;)

GoDolphins -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:21:40 PM)
No I can't assess her relationship with God, which is why I said there was more than one possibility. I even explicitly wrote out more than one and stopped there because I could go on for a while with others. Yes I did say that I did believe that one was probably true, which might have been a bit hasty for me to just blurt out here but it is what I would guess if I had to, but I didn't say it was for a fact then and I'm not now.

happylittlepet -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:25:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: GoDolphins You might should read what is actually written before trying to go after someone. My issue with her is her general attitude towards people, not her interests. I never once mentioned financial domination. Actually, while I wouldn't bring this up at church, some of the people I go to church with are probably more open-minded than a lot of people on this site. no, i read what you wrote. i just wondered if you did the same. your issue with her is moot. which is why i raised the issue about your congregation. because they'd take issue with you being here. see the problem? same issue called judgment. i couldn't care less what you do with your time. but i don't think you can assess her spirituality and relationship with G-d based on a few lines of text. much like i can't gauge yours nor do i wish to. porcelaine A lot of other people might take issue with us being here too: parents partners children grand parents students (if you teach) parents of those children (if you teach) teachers/professors (if you are a student) colleagues friends other family neighbors even your employer can look at you differently Judgement is everywhere, not only (and sometimes surprisingly not) in churches/synagogues/temples/mosques. It's tricky not to judge the judgmental. Sometimes acceptance comes from those we expect it least from, same with judgment/rejection. And to the OP: I am more from the perspective 'live and let live'; done the pharisee thing, not going there again. The 2 great commandments: Love God and your neighbor as yourself; I have enough to work on that for a life time. But yeah, then I don't touch on the core of the New Testament, that what is the 'hot' issue that causes much of the factions: the cross.

porcelaine -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:28:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoDolphins No I can't assess her relationship with God, which is why I said there was more than one possibility. I even explicitly wrote out more than one and stopped there because I could go on for a while with others. Yes I did say that I did believe that one was probably true, which might have been a bit hasty for me to just blurt out here but it is what I would guess if I had to, but I didn't say it was for a fact then and I'm not now. which was the point i was getting at. it wasn't personal. we can't know why she wrote it. at best we're guessing. but to judge her spirituality based on a statement that could be a complete farce as you've noted seemed a wee bit harsh. especially since the same would be levied on to you if you shared your truth with others from a similar background. which is just as wrong in my opinion, but justifiable in some minds because their views are "dogmatically" inspired. life is hard enough without sexual hangups. oftentimes the very people judging are into far worse and probably doing it as well. they just hide it and spin the bs better. porcelaine

Lockit -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:29:35 PM)
Actually... the condemnation of many churches/creeds/socalledbeliever's has been a source of shame, guilt and many painful things to many people. Much of it I think would be an atrosity and a great big...shame on you from Christ. What mankind does in the name of Christ... whoa! There's a lot of logs in people's eyes! The bible says not to take on the sin of another and also that if in your heart you believe it is a sin, then it is a sin. You have condemned yourself in a sense. Teaching grace would be a very good thing and allowing for grace without taking advantage of forgiveness would have amazing results in people's lives. If you want to go by the bible and all that... you might really study it before you go into condeming yourself and what you do. Look at it not as a negative there to tell you how bad you are... but a place to find love and healing. But don't just study the bible... go by what your spirit tells you and know the grace, love and freedom of that spirit that guides you.

mnottertail -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 4:32:04 PM)
quote: Actually... the condemnation of many churches/creeds/socalledbeliever's has been a source of shame, guilt and many painful things to many people. Much of it I think would be an atrosity and a great big...shame on you from Christ. What mankind does in the name of Christ... whoa! There's a lot of logs in people's eyes Ain't that just about the fuckin' hawtest thing your little eyes have read in some time people? Think of it.............. TheRenaissanceMan

happylittlepet -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 5:14:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit Actually... the condemnation of many churches/creeds/socalledbeliever's has been a source of shame, guilt and many painful things to many people. Much of it I think would be an atrosity and a great big...shame on you from Christ. What mankind does in the name of Christ... whoa! There's a lot of logs in people's eyes! If I understand the bolded sentence correctly, then yes: let's please separate what Christ says from what people make out of it/do with it/put on others. But where do we draw the line? Shall we draw it at what Christ says, or at what the disciples/apostles/Paul say about Christ? Where is the Bible literal, where figuratively, where is it poetic, and where is it an example? Where do we draw that line with what we believe is historically correct? Do we believe any of the claims Christ makes about himself? If not, why not? It's not as easy as this seems. If we cut one thing out, why not another, and so on? The bible says not to take on the sin of another and also that if in your heart you believe it is a sin, then it is a sin. You have condemned yourself in a sense. Teaching grace would be a very good thing and allowing for grace without taking advantage of forgiveness would have amazing results in people's lives. E.g. slavery by white European traders who sailed from Africa west and east wards and by white slave owners was justified, based on Scripture. In the eyes of the traders/owners, it was not a sin. I beg to differ. If you want to go by the bible and all that... you might really study it before you go into condeming yourself and what you do. Look at it not as a negative there to tell you how bad you are... but a place to find love and healing. But don't just study the bible... go by what your spirit tells you and know the grace, love and freedom of that spirit that guides you. I like to keep it simple nowadays. I used to study it, but walked away from that, too many shoulds and musts. The paradox of condemnation and love was one I couldn't live with. So I concluded that love wins. If no sin is too big for God to forgive, then I will believe that. In that case, fear and condemnation have to leave. But there are many Christians who will condemn me to hell for saying that. And that's ok, no point in arguing. Like I wrote earlier, the 2 commandments: love God and your neighbor as yourself (that includes loving yourself). I am working on the love part, towards all three parties, in my own way. And yes, Lockit, it's spirit, and breathing too.

Eigenaar -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 5:25:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: looking4princess I found this ad on CM from a Femdomme, actually a Findomme: I specialize in WALLET-RAPING, ACCOUNT-DRAINING, and MONEY-SIPHONING you LOSERs! I will use, abuse, humiliate, and bring you SORRY FUCKS to your knees BEGGING FOR MORE!! From curiosity i reviewed her profile and found that one of her Interests included christianity. I wrote to her to inquire if she did not see a disconnect between her religion and her contemptuous attitude toward others. I wondered what would jesus think? One more message exchange and the lady blocked me. LOL! I realize i have cited an extreme contradiction with this lady’s(?) Profile. I also realize that love not contempt is a staple ingredient of most D/s relationships. But it got me to wondering if Christians and/or Jews and/or Muslims wrestled with any conflicts between their religious precepts and their BDSM desires and fantasies. I will tell you up front that i am an extreme agnostic on the issue of god and religion, so i do not harbor any conflicts regarding my “perv” persona. I would welcome your observations. I would like to answer your question with the question what makes you think Christians/Jews/Muslims would wrestle with conflicts concerning bdsm and why you limit to these three.

Lockit -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 5:27:20 PM)
If I knew where the line was... I guess I would be god. But seeing as though I am not sure I believe there is a god of the christian faith... I just know the word and some creeds or doctrines fairly well... I sure as hell wouldn't listen to me spout off what was right and wrong! Hell... I thought I had the answer's when I was in the ministry and they were found in certain places... not all answer's of course... but enough. Now... lol... I don't believe any one thing to be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. My creed in life is love. Period. I may not always be loving... or act right and love... but I try. Although I test that greatly when sarcastic or mad! lol Like I said... what is done in Christ's name... is often very bad. I consider bad to be... imposing blame, guilt and shame for being human, murder... lying and cheating as bad... all with varying degree's of results. But that is my consideration not any power behind it. There's more, but I am just basically saying... wtf do I know and if I do know anything... what power is there in it? lol None.

MeaganBlake -> RE: Religious conflict with bdsm relationships or fantasies. (9/23/2009 8:23:49 PM)
What a fascinating thread! I am a Christian and a Domme, and in the begining I did have a bit of a struggle justifying the two. However, my slave turned control of the relationship over to me at the very beginning, so in a way, I am submitting to his will by dominating him. If that makes any sense... I tried to be a good little submissive Christian girl for most of my life, and it led to one failed relationship after another. My relationship with Josephine is actually the healthiest I have had in my adult life because I am not denying who I am anymore. I am embracing my dominance. And I am no longer conflicted. The only area I am concerned about involves the introduction of another male to our relationship. It is something that my slave has suggested, but I'm not entirely comfortable with it because of my Christian beliefs. But of course, I am in control and I make the decisions, so I won't do anything I feel uncomfortable with, regardless of Josephine's cuckolding fantasies. To do so would compromise both my beliefs as a Christian and my role as a Domme.

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