RE: A slaves refusal

RE: A slaves refusal (Full Version)

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AnimusRex -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 9:20:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I think that there was too much jumping in with both feet and not enough, getting to know one another, communication, "what does xxx mean to YOU?" type of thing. Exactly. FYI, public speaking and singing are two of the greatest fears people have- it makes us intensely vulnerable and prone to looking foollish. I wager she would rather eat poo than sing. Having said that, the real underlying issue is "insta-slavery". People often feel that if they have an intense craving for kinky sex and power dynamic, then it is "slavery". But the very real internal enslavement that deserves the word only happens over time, when the level of trust is developed sufficiently. Yet again, a dose of Cesar Milan is in order- you wouldn't bring a dog home and complain that it doesn't do heel and sit up, so why complain that a new girl won't perform for you immediately on command? Accept the fact that your relationship is not Master/ slave yet, but that it could develop into that, with enough effort on both your parts.

tammystarm -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 10:27:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CougarStud So I am driving to Busch Gardens to take my new slave to a 2 day trip. I was driving and I asked her to sing to me, she said she doesn't sing. I said neither do I but that I would show her it could be done and sang an old Lefty Frizzel tune. She siad she still wouldn't sing. After a nice steak dinner I told her I would like her to sing a simple nursery ryhme and again she refused. I am about to take her back home without going to the Amusement Park in the morning (I am too tired to drive home tonight) I need advise. Yep this one is gonna get to me. Dear Cougar Stud.; You must recognize that she had some fear singing to You? So Your gonna throw her away, or at least punish her by not taking her to Busch Gardens for the mere fact that she wont sing to You? Have You bothered to ask her why? There just might be a major factor in this. Its obvious that there is. How long have Y/you been together? i am certain that Master would not treat me in this manor, if He asked me to do something and i said i cant. He would find the reason behind it, then judge whether or not its a valid reason for me not to do so. and days like this remind me how thankfully i truly am for Him.

allthatjaz -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 11:02:29 AM)
Oh yeah.... slating her is a really good idea. Like someone else here said, 'she was brave enough and sensible enough to come to these forums to get advice'. From her replies she is obviously taking on some of that advice. Good for her I say.

LaTigresse -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 11:30:34 AM)
I think a lot of the negativity is coming from a place......of difference. Many on here are not in a hardcore, master or mistress/slave type relationship. Many of the hetro dominant/submissive relationships are structured in a way that the submissive has a great deal of leeway and feedback of exactly HOW they submit. I do see the snarkiness coming from people that can only identify with that type of relationship, as ignorance. I know several Mtypes that are quite responsible and caring, good people really, that would never in a million years tolerate the behaviour described. One would, after she picked her jaw up off the floor from the shock, give her slave such a harsh caning the slave would bleeding for sure. Many s-types here cannot fathom such. That does not make my friend a horrible person, or terrible mistress. So, while being a slave, someone that hasn't the right to say no to anything, may not be for all.........it is rather narrow minded to criticize the actions of others given to a stricter relationship model. Myself, I find much of the behaviour of some of the hetro female s-types on here, the attitudes regarding their method of submitting and how......completely out of line........for what I want within MY personal life. Yet, for me to criticize her would be ignorant and out of line. It is between her and the man that she shares her life with. What I think of it, does not matter. It is possible, I think, to give advice when asked for genuinely, without ridiculing the premise of such a relationship. For some, the demand to do a harmless act, something that was not given as a hard limit.......is an absolute. If denied, it signals the end of the M/s dynamic.......if it even existed. A sign. For others, something to be ignored, overlooked, because it does not really matter. They are more into feeling safe and/or hot kinky sex than really submitting all. Neither is right or wrong wholey, only right or wrong for individuals and the relationships those individuals are in.

Lockit -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 12:02:49 PM)
Fantasy and reality or the realization of fantasy becoming reality can be very educational to a rude awakening. Ideal’s can become a situation where you find far more than you ever thought could be there and hadn’t thought of. I think of trying something new in life and I know that I must step lightly, learn the path I travel and don’t take risks on things that I could make mistakes on. Before I act on many things, I feel I should explore whatever education there is on them. If I step out and start something and realize things aren’t going so well or there is a problem that needs to be addressed, I am not going to go in timid, but I will step lightly. Feel my way around so to speak. Taking into consideration all that I can, I move forward. When dealing with something that can be life changing or where I carry a responsibility to do the right thing and where someone could be emotionally helped or damaged, I must tread lightly if I don’t know what the outcome of my actions could be. I must consider where the person comes from and what their experiences or wounds are. Where one person might thrive on something, another may not. Someone as inexperienced as I am or more so or very young and in a first type of situation will need consideration for whatever is going on. In the early stages of any relationship, things are not what they would be much later on. To expect the end result before the working out of it all is accomplished, I feel would be in error. I don’t think that four months talking online and by phone and three weeks in person, in this situation is enough time to know, demand or make a show of things not yet worked out. We all have different ways of doing things… but don’t we consider sometimes… the people involved and circumstances or is there no allowance made for individual things and we have a routine for lack of a better word, that we go by no matter what? In some of the snarkiness… I do believe in my motivation was that with the same expectation the op was giving the new person in her life… was what I was giving. You expect a young woman who has decided to commit to something she has no real living experience on, to after four months of talking, romanticizing, exploring and projecting about it all, to come to move in on a first meeting and in three weeks, know what it means, how to do it and to not piss you off. That isn’t going to happen. To expect it is out of line in my view. But… say we expect it. Now… the same expectation of basically a quick slavery situation, should be the expectation of the dominant as well… To expect the submissive type to be up to par with our image of slavery, we must also expect the dominant to be up to par just as quickly. Personally I would not jump into a relationship as serious as a long distance move on a first meet and expect all to go well if my view of that person was faulty. Calling the person spoiled and deciding to change their whole life in a matter of weeks is simply unrealistic and to get mad because an unrealistic situation didn’t go well is about as smart as continuing to hit your head on a wall because you have a headache.

peches -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 12:07:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CougarStud Thanks all of you again for your imput. I sat down with my slave and had a discussion about what being a slave meant ,and if she felt like this is how she wanted to live. We talked about the differences between a slave and a submissive. We talked about if she trusted me. Then she sang. [sm=applause.gif]

Lockit -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 12:10:43 PM)
It could be high school... after all... this young lady may just be out of high school and out of her parents home. To expect non high school goes both ways, especially in an older person who has more time and life experience. I think that...'fine, don't sing' was just as high school.

Lockit -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 12:20:31 PM)
peches... maybe I should have quoted your first entry. Now you change it... and my response looks out of line. Thank you for that. Your saying the young lady saying it was uncool sounding like it was high school is what I responded to. Nice manipulation there.

LaTigresse -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 12:33:06 PM)
Lockit.......in large part, I believe we feel the same way. I doubt neither you nor I would consider someone an owned slave of ours, in this same situation. However, I still say.........at the point the person is considered one in my home, owned by me......to refuse something so simple, would very likely be an indicator they were not my slave from that moment on. If indeed they really were. And yes........both should maintain the same standard of relationship responsibility. It's not all one or the other.

ranja -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 12:35:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CougarStud Thanks all of you again for your imput. I sat down with my slave and had a discussion about what being a slave meant ,and if she felt like this is how she wanted to live. We talked about the differences between a slave and a submissive. We talked about if she trusted me. Then she sang. I am glad she decided to sing... i think it is incredibly rude to respond flat out negative to a reasonable request whatever a person identifies as... slave (that should be unheard of) sub (bad manners totally) or Dom (pig ignorant) When my Husband responds flat out negative to a reasonable request from me, i will take it obviously, i have no choice, but i do think He is indeed pig ignorant when He does... and next time He asks me to take His shoes off i might just make Him wait a fraction... and not kiss His feet unless He asks for it and not put His shoes away until He tells me so....... i can be awkward too if that's the way He wants to play it... it will all get pathetic until He puts it right again.

NihilusZero -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 12:37:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I think a lot of the negativity is coming from a place......of difference. Many on here are not in a hardcore, master or mistress/slave type relationship. Many of the hetro dominant/submissive relationships are structured in a way that the submissive has a great deal of leeway and feedback of exactly HOW they submit. I do see the snarkiness coming from people that can only identify with that type of relationship, as ignorance. I know several Mtypes that are quite responsible and caring, good people really, that would never in a million years tolerate the behaviour described. One would, after she picked her jaw up off the floor from the shock, give her slave such a harsh caning the slave would bleeding for sure. Many s-types here cannot fathom such. That does not make my friend a horrible person, or terrible mistress. So, while being a slave, someone that hasn't the right to say no to anything, may not be for all.........it is rather narrow minded to criticize the actions of others given to a stricter relationship model. Myself, I find much of the behaviour of some of the hetro female s-types on here, the attitudes regarding their method of submitting and how......completely out of line........for what I want within MY personal life. Yet, for me to criticize her would be ignorant and out of line. It is between her and the man that she shares her life with. What I think of it, does not matter. It is possible, I think, to give advice when asked for genuinely, without ridiculing the premise of such a relationship. For some, the demand to do a harmless act, something that was not given as a hard limit.......is an absolute. If denied, it signals the end of the M/s dynamic.......if it even existed. A sign. For others, something to be ignored, overlooked, because it does not really matter. They are more into feeling safe and/or hot kinky sex than really submitting all. Neither is right or wrong wholey, only right or wrong for individuals and the relationships those individuals are in. 100 points.

subtlebutterfly -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 12:51:31 PM)
FR: Maybe she was having your ears and sanity as a priority in this particular case. She may be one of the worst singers in the world. I think I'd have told you that I'd sing for you..after a beer..or two....or perhaps three....ok no after the whole friggin 6-pack more like. However in all seriousness, "singing" is more than just "singing" to some people. It has a lot to do with your self confidence and to open up and put yourself out there on the line. It could very well be one of the biggest challenges a person can face especially if they aren't 200% comfortable. I'd say that there's something else behind the "I don't sing" that needs to be worked on.

Lockit -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 12:57:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Lockit.......in large part, I believe we feel the same way. I doubt neither you nor I would consider someone an owned slave of ours, in this same situation. However, I still say.........at the point the person is considered one in my home, owned by me......to refuse something so simple, would very likely be an indicator they were not my slave from that moment on. If indeed they really were. And yes........both should maintain the same standard of relationship responsibility. It's not all one or the other. I agree. lol

Acer49 -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 1:00:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tammystarm quote: ORIGINAL: CougarStud So I am driving to Busch Gardens to take my new slave to a 2 day trip. I was driving and I asked her to sing to me, she said she doesn't sing. I said neither do I but that I would show her it could be done and sang an old Lefty Frizzel tune. She siad she still wouldn't sing. After a nice steak dinner I told her I would like her to sing a simple nursery ryhme and again she refused. I am about to take her back home without going to the Amusement Park in the morning (I am too tired to drive home tonight) I need advise. Yep this one is gonna get to me. Dear Cougar Stud.; You must recognize that she had some fear singing to You? So Your gonna throw her away, or at least punish her by not taking her to Busch Gardens for the mere fact that she wont sing to You? Have You bothered to ask her why? There just might be a major factor in this. Its obvious that there is. How long have Y/you been together? i am certain that Master would not treat me in this manor, if He asked me to do something and i said i cant. He would find the reason behind it, then judge whether or not its a valid reason for me not to do so. and days like this remind me how thankfully i truly am for Him. quote: Yep this one is gonna get to me. Dear Cougar Stud.; You must recognize that she had some fear singing to You? So Your gonna throw her away, or at least punish her by not taking her to Busch Gardens for the mere fact that she wont sing to You? Have You bothered to ask her why? There just might be a major factor in this. Its obvious that there is. How long have Y/you been together? i am certain that Master would not treat me in this manor, if He asked me to do something and i said i cant. He would find the reason behind it, then judge whether or not its a valid reason for me not to do so. and days like this remind me how thankfully i truly am for Him. Why would you present an argument with no facts to back up your conclusion? Why is so hard for you to accept the fact the child did not want to do it?

Lockit -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 1:27:33 PM)
LOL... oh god! The child? Interesting choice of words there. Interesting Acer49... how you seem to come in an attack anything you think you can and I don't see much more imput from you. There is a bit of history here that would be against tos to explain or spell out. Maybe you need to think about that because there is far more to this whole story than you may know and some of us know it. So why not try to get informed or say something that might bring something to the conversation/debate/whatever... rather than just an arguement?

NihilusZero -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 1:27:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly However in all seriousness, "singing" is more than just "singing" to some people. It has a lot to do with your self confidence and to open up and put yourself out there on the line. It could very well be one of the biggest challenges a person can face especially if they aren't 200% comfortable. I'd say that there's something else behind the "I don't sing" that needs to be worked on. I don't think the OP was asking for something of Puccini's with proper vibrato to be sung at perfect pitch. I fail to see how a submissive with some degree of competent imagination, even under the duress of insecurity, could not have turned it into something silly and/or lighthearted. There's a big difference when the first words out of a sub's mouth are "I'm not sure how good I think I'll be at this..." as opposed to "No." One is an indication of the desire to obey, but having inner conflicting issues that make it difficult and the other is plain irreverence.

NihilusZero -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 1:30:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit There is a bit of history here that would be against tos to explain or spell out. Maybe you need to think about that because there is far more to this whole story than you may know and some of us know it. Even if that's the case, how does it affect the natural predispositions of the s-type in question unless you're suggesting the story has been deliberately misrepresented with quotes of what happened that are nothing near what actually took place?

sublace -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 1:41:49 PM)
I think it's good they worked it out. Thank you to all dominants. Those of us who respect you can get awfully tangled up in ourselves.

subtlebutterfly -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 1:43:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero There's a big difference when the first words out of a sub's mouth are "I'm not sure how good I think I'll be at this..." as opposed to "No." One is an indication of the desire to obey, but having inner conflicting issues that make it difficult and the other is plain irreverence. If something scares the shit outta me literally I can go into lockup mode and a short and simple "no" or "I don't xxxx" would be my answer. I have done it. Afterwards (can even be days/weeks/months later) I realize how fucked up it was but at the time it sounded perfectly reasonable.

Lockit -> RE: A slaves refusal (9/24/2009 1:44:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit There is a bit of history here that would be against tos to explain or spell out. Maybe you need to think about that because there is far more to this whole story than you may know and some of us know it. Even if that's the case, how does it affect the natural predispositions of the s-type in question unless you're suggesting the story has been deliberately misrepresented with quotes of what happened that are nothing near what actually took place? First of all, I respect you a lot and agree with most everything you say and laugh with just about half of it. I think in many ways, everyone is correct in some part in this thread. Yet... taking into consideration the whole situation that has played out on the boards and what I know privately from months ago, quite honestly, the situation is something I would be concerned about if say my own son or daughter were in either position of dominant or submissive. I don't believe that without a foundation that can be solidly built, that things can go well in expectations from either position in this situation. They can be brought about through many means... I am not saying it can't happen... I am saying I have a problem with how it is happening and that is my option to have. I will say that I don't think it is good to go too easy or to disrespectful places and each has a role in those places. Under differenet circumstances, I would agree heartily with a hardline approach with someone committed to me to obey because we would have the foundation for such. Think about this... how confused everyone was on the slave... vanilla and all that. Take into consideration the link I posted to help explain. It is there, I base my belief's of this situation and my comments. If it was misunderstood and maybe a lack of understanding between the op and partner and what a slave really means and how they act and all that... you can bet there is a lot going on that would need clearing up before I hard lined it. I am not at all saying there is a misrepresentation someone tried to pull of. I am saying there is more to all of this and this situation cannot be compared to all others. I really hope the best for the op and the young lady. We can disagree and we can have a problem with one another, but that doesn't mean I wish them ill.

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