stella41b
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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
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What an interesting theory in the OP.. Okay, so let's examine this, and I'm throwing this out to everyone to read through and consider.. Let's start with the non-transgendered among you, the vast majority of you who are born in one gender, live in that gender successfully, and die in that gender.
If you identify as a female - what is it that makes you a female? I'm not talking about a word like 'woman' in a dictionary. What is it about you that defines you as a female, what is that something which you share with every other female, but which isn't shared by any male?
Same question to the males - what is it that makes you male? What is that one thing which defines you as a male? What is that something which isn't female?
I suppose a good answer here would be the ability to function normally in either one of the two biological roles - male or female. Agreed? This means that if you have a womb, you are female, and if you have testes and a penis, you are male, right?
Okay, so let's paraphrase that.. let's say for example being male or being female is the ability to reproduce successfully. That defines you as a male or a female, at least according to most people, agreed?
Okay, so you as a female are born with a vagina, a womb, Fallopian tubes, and from the onset of puberty overies are produced. You as a male are born with a penis, testes and the ability to produce sperm. Is this enough to define you as either male or female?
Possibly, but to what degree? What about all the females who are infertile, incapable of becoming pregnant? Do they cease to be female? Or are they female to a lesser degree? Ale males who are impotent any less male than males who are virile and able to reproduce?
The OP is quite right, and I am in full agreement here. Giving a male female hormones to make him grow breasts doesn't make him female. Nor does putting him through SRS surgery and replacing his penis with a vagina. Same as you can take away a woman's breasts and surgically attach a penis and she still will not be a male.
But the ability to reproduce in one's biological role isn't just about having the correct body parts, it's also about instincts, genes, thinking, and also the ability to be a parent and care for one's offspring, Being female is just as much about having XX chromosomes as it is about having a vagina and a womb, being male is just as much about having the XY chromosomes in every cell of your body as it is about having a penis and testes.
But in every cell? So what about the females among you out there who have problems with facial hair/ Do you ever stop to wonder whether you are any less female because you have problems with facial hair? And guys, those of you who have higher pitched voices, perhaps a bit higher than the normal 90-120Hz range for male voices. Do you ever stop and hear yourself speak This is called mosaicism - some cells are male cells and have an XY pattern of chromosomes, and some cells are female and have XX pattern of chromosomes. All of us to some degree have both, which is why there's a lot of truth in the saying 'there's a bit of woman in every man and vice versa'. This is why you have conditions such as Turner's Syndrome in females, or Klinefelter's Syndrome in males, both of which are examples of what is known as a trisomy, which along with tetrasomy, and 'mosaics' describe numerous genetic disorders affecting sex chromosomes and gender.
If you have any doubt as to how important genetics are to human reproduction, then consider also Down's Syndrome, which is another genetic defect defined as a trisomy, but not affecting gender or sex chromosomes.
Therefore male and female here, i.e. when someone is clearly either one of one particular gender is the majority, it is the norm, but it doesn't define every single human being. There are exceptions. Gender is far more complicated than just male and female or the word 'man' and 'woman' in a dictionary. We are still only discovering how complicated as we discover the relatively new science of the genome and genetics.
There are two umbrella terms for people affected by such genetic conditions, which are intersexuality and transgendered. These are conditions, this is how the person was born, this is how they are always going to be and how they are going to die - they are not illnesses, they are not diseases, nothing can change that person's genetic make up, the only thing you can do is make it as easy as possible for them to be able to live a meaningful life.
Please don't let therefore the OP fool you, or mislead you, because being transgendered isn't just about wearing clothing of what we perceive to be opposite sex, about wanting to have physical characteristics of what we perceive to be the opposite sex, and as much as the OP wants us to believe, you cannot pigeonhole the entire human race into two neat little boxes male and female. Being transgendered or intersexed can also equally have much to do with a genetic condition or abnormality.
So what now? If being male or female doesn't entirely rest on having the correct body parts with your genetic or psychological gender, and if we cannot accurately define someone's gender through their genetic make up - then what else is left? Surely then it is the ability to be able to function normally in society in the gender role you perceive and feel yourself to be? But isn't that also an important part of being a male or female, being a mother, being a father, being able to consistently and reliably model and exhibit patterns of thought, feeling, personal self-expression and ability to relate to others in one's own gender role?
If there's something here that someone doesn't find factual then please feel free to point it out.
Normally this isn't an issue, because the vast majority of us are born into one gender, we accept ourselves in that gender, we live successful lives in that gender and we grow old and die. However there are some among us who are not that fortunate. So what then?
Well unfortunately medical science is not that advanced to enable a medical professional to order us to take a clinical test to determine reliably and accurately what gender we are exactly. There is no possible way to reliably and accurately examine someone's genetic make up. All a medical professional can do is look for clinical evidence of a genetic disorder through what is presented in the patient physically, emotionally and mentally. Usually this involves repeated psychological and psychiatric examinations, tests to determine whether that person is able to function on a basic level in a gender role. This is usually a lengthy process, whicb takes years.
Usually the only symptom is gender dysphoria, or gender dysmorphia if you prefer. But it's not like you can just go see a doctor and tell them 'I think I might have gender dysphoria'. Usually what happens is that a doctor will place obstacles in your path or look for reasons why it isn't gender dysphoria. Medical professionals will only act if there's prolonged evidence of gender dysphoria which indicates that the individual cannot clearly function adequately in the gender they were ascribed to at birth.
Transitioning from one socially accepted gender to another is perhaps one of the most difficult, traumatic and stressful experiences anyone could ever attempt to do. It requires courage, strength, complete and total honesty and self-knowledge. Not everyone completes the process. Some find they cannot go through with it, some go through it and realize they were wrong, some cannot cope and commit suicide, and some realize that they do not need to complete the whole transition, and others are forced to compromise.
There's one thing which the OP has failed to mentioned, which is rarely if ever visible to others, and it is a point which I feel is very important - it doesn't matter to what degree someone is experiencing gender dysphoria, but if they are, there is the fact that the person who experiences gender dysphoria and who is perceived by others to be the gender they were born in is suffering - usually that suffering manifests itself in a great deal of mental and emotional turmoil, conflict and emotional pain.
And this is why the transgendered person seeks to identify themselves as their acquired or destination gender - pure and simple - it alleviates their suffering and goes some way to negating that gender dysphoria. It takes away that inner conflict and turmoil. Therefore unlike what the OP wants you to believe, that they are seeking to misrepresent themselves, or to deceive others, or to try to be what they are not, they are seeking to alleviate some pretty intense emotional suffering, whether it be acute or continuous. They are facing up to their issues, they are dealing with it,. they are being true to themselves.
Is this really so hard to understand?
And yes, they may not have the breasts and the vagina, they will never have the womb, or conversely,. they will never have the penis, but if they have the genetic make up of their acquired gender and are able to show it by being able to function normally in their acquired (not chosen, acquired) gender and present themselves as female - why is it so hard to accept this? Why can't the transgendered female be accepted as female if that is the way she presents and lives, and does so in a way to alleviate her suffering and resolve her issues?
Why the need to discuss this, or to contradict this? I mean, you wouldn't walk up to someone suffering from Down's Syndrome and tell them that they're being stupid, would you? You wouldn't start a thread claiming that all Down's Syndrome sufferers are stupid? So why start a thread claiming that the transgendered are being dishonest?
You see the fact remains the same, and it is one fact, that unless you know that person intimately you do not know. You are only going on how someone appears to be according to your perception.
And appearances can be deceptive.
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