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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/28/2009 1:09:04 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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Status: offline 		Who wants to be a eunick,  argh,

and it is true there is no cure - they will always re-offend.

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/28/2009 1:18:43 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Revoke the prohobition of death penalties in the European Union and end 'em. 
Davan


So what about the 18 year old who has sex with hir 16 year old partner?
And what about those that are gay?
Are you suggesting that it's wise to group all individuals together now?
Draconian values on homosexuality or the death penelty exist - does not make them right.  You should learn just how dangerous and naive your advocation is on a much wider scale is.

the.dark.

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/28/2009 1:23:08 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
My understanding is rehabilitation for a pedophile is very very rare.


That doesn't make headlines defiantly, whereas fear mongering does.

quote:


Sex offenders
On a given day in 1994 there were approximately 234,000 offenders convicted of rape or sexual assault under the care, custody, or control of corrections agencies; nearly 60% of these sex offenders are under conditional supervision in the community.
The median age of the victims of imprisoned sexual assaulters was less than 13 years old; the median age of rape victims was about 22 years.
An estimated 24% of those serving time for rape and 19% of those serving time for sexual assault had been on probation or parole at the time of the offense for which they were in State prison in 1991.
Of the 9,691 male sex offenders released from prisons in 15 States in 1994, 5.3% were rearrested for a new sex crime within 3 years of release.
Of released sex offenders who allegedly committed another sex crime, 40% perpetrated the new offense within a year or less from their prison discharge.
To the top of summary findings
Child victimizers
Approximately 4,300 child molesters were released from prisons in 15 States in 1994. An estimated 3.3% of these 4,300 were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years of release from prison.
Among child molesters released from prison in 1994, 60% had been in prison for molesting a child 13 years old or younger.
Offenders who had victimized a child were on average 5 years older than the violent offenders who had committed their crimes against adults. Nearly 25% of child victimizers were age 40 or older, but about 10% of the inmates with adult victims fell in that age range.


Sometimes people will say 'oh well within three years that doesn't give the whole picture' but other times they will say 'look how quickly they reoffend after leaving prison.' Depends what they want to emphasize and for what political objective. I genuinely don't know any statistics, independently verified, as to what the lifetime reoffending rates are. Perhaps you have some such statistics?

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm#sex


< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 9/28/2009 1:24:36 PM >

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/28/2009 3:27:01 PM   
allthatjaz


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Status: offline 		A pedophile is very different from a sex offender. An 18 year old that has sex with a 15 year old is a sex offender. Pedophiles like pre-pubescents and tend to be very choosy about age range. It is a mental illness, it seems it is not treatable.
Our children need to be safe from these people. They can not and should not be re-integrated into society without great precaution but for all but the severest of cases, I can't agree with the death penalty because the child of a pedophile often loves its father.

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/28/2009 4:31:34 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


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Status: offline 		I do not believe that's true in certain circumstances and I have first hand knowledge that sometimes someone who molests a child will never do it again once they got busted, because they were scared strait, or for what ever reason they never did, and no it's not me, and it's not my daddy but it's someone else  very very close to me, and after molesting me sexually for years I know he's never touched a kid again, now maybe that's different because I was a relative and he never lusted over other kids just me so I don't know but I don't believe you'll always be ready to molest a child or engage in sex acts once you did. It's about the person and are they sufficiently bothered enough by their desires to get help.
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Who wants to be a eunick,  argh,

and it is true there is no cure - they will always re-offend.


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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/28/2009 4:36:36 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		Anyone who doesnt understand right from wrong and goes there once, may go again. Sorry TFB, but you arent the only underage child that could have ever brought that out in him. A line was crossed, it could be crossed again.Never say never.

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/28/2009 6:24:45 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Yeah I am sure there's other kids who could of turned him on, but he's 70 now, and hasn't yet once, and now it's not like it wuld never ever ever again happen but I'm saying I doubt it would.
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Anyone who doesnt understand right from wrong and goes there once, may go again. Sorry TFB, but you arent the only underage child that could have ever brought that out in him. A line was crossed, it could be crossed again.Never say never.

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/28/2009 10:28:42 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Revoke the prohobition of death penalties in the European Union and end 'em. 
Davan


So what about the 18 year old who has sex with hir 16 year old partner?
And what about those that are gay?
Are you suggesting that it's wise to group all individuals together now?
Draconian values on homosexuality or the death penelty exist - does not make them right.  You should learn just how dangerous and naive your advocation is on a much wider scale is.

the.dark.


As is rather standard, you've jumped 10 miles down a road someone has proposed take 5 deliberate steps upon.  If you read what I said previously rather than making your standard self-important proclamations, perhaps communication would be more effective.  To make it clear: read what I already said on the specifics. 
Yes, the only cure for a true pedophile is death, theirs.   
Davan

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 9/28/2009 10:30:27 PM >

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 12:05:12 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael
Yes, the only cure for a true pedophile is death, theirs.   
Davan


This statement sounds highly improbable.

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 12:13:10 AM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		I don't agree with the death penalty for pedophiles. Life imprisonment yes.....Not that they would make it long once the other inmates found out.

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 12:48:52 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

I don't agree with the death penalty for pedophiles. Life imprisonment yes.....Not that they would make it long once the other inmates found out.


Whereas I personally think that 17 years, 364 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes, 59.999999 seconds seems a touch arbitrary, especially given how much earlier the biology starts prepping for it.

(Now, on the other hand, I agree that our society is way more complex than the societies that primitive man evolved under, but even so - the obsession about hebephilia in our culture (emphatically both pro and con, confusingly enough) seems to just be an artifact of our particular culture's hang-ups, and not any sort of indicator of any "objective morality".

That isn't to say that someone who rapes and kills a 6-year-old isn't a seriously damaged person, but I think there's a distinction between that person and someone who sleeps with a 16 year old with a fake ID, you know?

Of course, to hear the law and the courts of Public Opinion tell it, ANYONE who would sleep with someone that they thought were 19, but was actually 16, is really a child-rapist who slavers for the flesh of our precious babies.

It's damn near impossible to have a rational debate on the subject of what is and what isn't an actual problem.

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 12:50:54 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Who wants to be a eunick,  argh,

and it is true there is no cure - they will always re-offend.



Actually, this is emphatically not true, as several studies have shown.

Unfortunately, every society needs a bogeyman, and for this society, it's kiddy-diddlers - and people we can accuse of kiddy-diddling.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 1:37:01 AM   
winterlight


Posts: 1319
Joined: 2/18/2006
Status: offline 		Has it worked over in Europe that they don't do what they do here in the U.S. on pedophiles?

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 2:04:07 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth



repping for it.



Of course, to hear the law and the courts of Public Opinion tell it, ANYONE who would sleep with someone that they thought were 19, but was actually 16, is really a child-rapist who slavers for the flesh of our precious babies.



Slightly out with the numbers because you can consensually have sex at 16 in the UK but if it was a 19 year old and a 15 year old
in the UK that would be classed as a criminal sexual act and would be treated very differently than a sexual act with a pre-pubescent child.


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 2:13:46 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

I do not believe that's true in certain circumstances and I have first hand knowledge that sometimes someone who molests a child will never do it again once they got busted, because they were scared strait, or for what ever reason they never did, and no it's not me, and it's not my daddy but it's someone else  very very close to me, and after molesting me sexually for years I know he's never touched a kid again, now maybe that's different because I was a relative and he never lusted over other kids just me so I don't know but I don't believe you'll always be ready to molest a child or engage in sex acts once you did. It's about the person and are they sufficiently bothered enough by their desires to get help.
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Who wants to be a eunick,  argh,

and it is true there is no cure - they will always re-offend.




Of course there are opportunist sex offenders. It takes a certain pattern to be termed as a pedophile (at least in the UK) and one of those patterns is repeat behavior.
A man who committed this act would come nowhere near my daughters no matter his age.




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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 2:32:02 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline
quote:



Prime Minister Donald Tusk said late last year he wanted obligatory castration for pedophiles, whom he branded 'degenerates'. Tusk said he did not believe "one can use the term 'human' for such individuals, such creatures."

"Therefore I don't think protection of human rights should refer to these kind of events," Tusk also said.



This is typical for Polish politics - focus on the least relevant issue. Especially of those parties on the right.

Donald Tusk is the leader of the Citizen's Platform (Platforma Obywatelska), which together with the Kaczynski twins who head Law and Order (Prawo i Sprawiedliwosc) which both came to be out of the disaster of allowing the Polish Solidarity movement to form a government.

Kaczynski (Lech) is the same guy who made anything containing 'sex with the suggestion of force or violence' a criminal offence in the Polish Criminal Code driving the BDSM community underground.

Lech Kacxzynski is the same guy I personally stood in opposition to in 2005 along with many others when he tried to make the Warsaw Equality Parade illegal in 2005 because he felt that 'sick people shouldn't be allowed to parade in the streets' in fact this year was the first legal and supported Warsaw Equality Parade supported by Donald Tusk, who is erm... recently elected.

Let us also bear in mind that the vast majority of the Polish LGBT community that was are living in.., erm London, elsewhere in the UK, Germany, France, who were basically branded 'sickos' and have had to flee Poland and live in exile in the West.

Let us not forget that it was Tusk's party who collaborated with Kaczynski's party in 2006 which from the Ministry of Education sent out among all Polish high schools a pamphlet warning teachers of the dangers of homosexuality and lesbianism, namely:

quote:



homosexuals and lesbians are ill people who may also indulge in disgusting acts such as S/M, whipping and beating each other, engaging in oral sex, drinking each other's urine, eating each other's faeces, having sex with minors, etc



Neither party have done anything to address the social problem of Mlodziez Wszechpolska (basically Poland for Poles) who with the approval of the Polish Catholic Church and such media organizations as Radio Maryja hunt down and persecute the LGBT community.

Neither party have investigated the Krakow Equality Parade of 2005 where police were found to be joining in with the 'Mohair Berets' and Mlodziez Wszechpolska throwing large stones at the peaceful LGBT procession.

Neither party are addressing the issue of Radio Maryja and Father Tadeusz Rydzyk it's owner, and with airing extremist right wing views over the air waves including inciting Polish Catholics to hatred and acts of violence against those who don't fit in with society.

The Mohair Berets (Berety Moharowe) is basically the elderly fundamentalist Polish Catholic right wing faction of supporters of Radio Maryja.

It's 2009 and almost 20 years since the Round Table talks between Lech Walesa and the former communist PZPR party (who were no saints after their 1968 expulsion of Jews from Poland) but how much longer is it going to take until all Poles enjoy freedom and democracy?

It's also 2009, five years since Poland entered the European Union after preparing for the event over 10 years and today it still does not guarantee - as it pledged to do so when it signed up - its citizens the similar level of human rights available to those in other member states.

I'm sorry, but I would be far more impressed when a Polish government takes steps to put these cross-waving loonies in their place in the modern world and when it also takes steps to tackle homophobia and transphobia which is ubiquitous in Polish society.

Don't let's even mention the issue of race.

I'm not saying paedophilia here isn't a serious issue, it is, but when most of the population can't tell the difference between a homosexual and a paedophile I'd say that this is a somewhat bigger issue.

ETA: Yes I did use the term 'cross-waving loonies' to refer to members of the Polish Catholic Church who have no concept of the Solicitus Rei Solidaris teachings of the late Pope John Paul II and I'm sorry but to refer to them as 'Catholic' would be an insult to the millions of Catholics practising outside Poland.

< Message edited by stella41b -- 9/29/2009 2:36:57 AM >

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 2:59:04 AM   
Skinwalker


Posts: 1
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Status: offline 		I keep forgetting, is "pogrom" a Russian word, or Polish?

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 3:10:49 AM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Skinwalker

I keep forgetting, is "pogrom" a Russian word, or Polish?


Russian.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 8:43:53 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Revoke the prohobition of death penalties in the European Union and end 'em. 
Davan


So what about the 18 year old who has sex with hir 16 year old partner?
And what about those that are gay?
Are you suggesting that it's wise to group all individuals together now?
Draconian values on homosexuality or the death penelty exist - does not make them right.  You should learn just how dangerous and naive your advocation is on a much wider scale is.

the.dark.


As is rather standard, you've jumped 10 miles down a road someone has proposed take 5 deliberate steps upon.  If you read what I said previously rather than making your standard self-important proclamations, perhaps communication would be more effective.  To make it clear: read what I already said on the specifics. 
Yes, the only cure for a true pedophile is death, theirs.   
Davan


When a person decides to launch a personal attack on another whom they have never met, or never spoken to personally, instead of addressing the questions that are asked during discussion it only damages themselves.  For me, it is saddening that you felt the need to do this to me, however I was only pointing out that making a blanket statement like you did without all the facts is pretty naive and for me, really scarey that people feel so able to kill another because they have a 'reason'.  In the future, I would hope and appriciate that you take any personal dislike of me that you have - due to my friendships - and keep it off board.  There is no constructive outcome for you hating on me when you do not even know me, just because of the people I care about.  Please put your personal issues aside.  Thank you in advance.


You stated that the death penelty be revoked in Europe.  If 'we' just did that then across Europe, many innocent people would die.  Even in your own country, laws differ from state to state.  If Europe did as you suggest and just revoke the prohibition of the death penelty then many human rights would be violated.  Lady E already gave an example of how you have to take the country - in this case Poland -  into consideration before jumping on the 'kill them all' bus.  Stella has, as I am writing this, witten a wonderful address stating some of the issues a european country like Poland have.  So advocation as you posted and was all I was responding to, is a scarey and naive statement.  Unless you are comfortable knowing that innocent men, women and children would die if the death penelty was simply revoked in Europe.

the.dark.

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RE: Consequences for pedophiles... - 9/29/2009 8:57:53 AM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Well of course not,  by saying he's 70 I am pointing out it was a one time  event, to the statement that once a pedo always a pedo and it's not something he ever did again. Of course l opportunity molesting and pedophiles with patterns of kid molesting could be very different. But I still do n't believe the statement once one always one.
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

I do not believe that's true in certain circumstances and I have first hand knowledge that sometimes someone who molests a child will never do it again once they got busted, because they were scared strait, or for what ever reason they never did, and no it's not me, and it's not my daddy but it's someone else  very very close to me, and after molesting me sexually for years I know he's never touched a kid again, now maybe that's different because I was a relative and he never lusted over other kids just me so I don't know but I don't believe you'll always be ready to molest a child or engage in sex acts once you did. It's about the person and are they sufficiently bothered enough by their desires to get help.
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Who wants to be a eunick,  argh,

and it is true there is no cure - they will always re-offend.




Of course there are opportunist sex offenders. It takes a certain pattern to be termed as a pedophile (at least in the UK) and one of those patterns is repeat behavior.
A man who committed this act would come nowhere near my daughters no matter his age.




(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 40
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