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Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 12:28:43 PM   
nevergrowdup


Posts: 86
Joined: 12/1/2007
Status: offline 		I consider myself a submissive.  And perhaps I don't fit the stereotype.  If people at work heard that I was into BDSM they would assume I was a domme because:
  • I'm very analytical
  • I'm not shy
  • I tend to be passionate about an issue or a person
In other words, if I have something to say I'm going to say it.

And this creeps into my personal life as well.  If I see someone making bad decisions, I'm going to voice my opinion.

I have a very dear Dom friend who has a tendency to get into some interesting relationships.  You know, the head scratchers where I'm thinking, "Is this girl serious or playing with him?"  So as a thinking, outspoken person I say what's on my mind.  About six months ago he told me that he didn't appreciate my critical thoughts, although that seems strange since he seemed to enjoy the speculation.  The fact is that he himself is a very analytical person and has excellent judgment.  9 out of 10 times he's already considered what I had brought up.  I guess I should also mention that he, as a child, was in a situation where he didn't have control over his life (and was abused) ... so perhaps that explains why he is more sensitive to my comments than others.

There's a fine line between concern and control, and I'm not sure if I'm crossing that line.  Keep in mind that my friend and I have a platonic relationship, but this could just as well be about my anyone I care for, like my 19 year old daughter.  Sometimes you see warning flags.  If you pretty much trust the judgment of the friend, should you:

  • Say nothing.
  • Acknowledge that you are listening.  "Interesting.  Let me know how it works out."
  • Find something good to say and suppress the critical thinking, "I'm glad that she seems to trust you." (while not saying, "Isn't that inconsistent with what she told you before?")
  • Spill it.
I'm not in a D/s relationship, perhaps understandably.    And sometimes I wonder if that kind of relationship is a realistic goal.  Can a thinking submissive express concerns about a Dom without being controlling?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 12:35:23 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		For me, it depends.  If someone is venting to me, I assume it is because they want to "fix" the problem.  I do solutions, not sympathy. 

With this in mind, is he actively complaining about these relationships or are you offering your opinion unsolicited?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to nevergrowdup)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 12:46:33 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I'd say it's not controlling , just unwelcome ........as was pointed out to you.

I can't see what it has to do with submissive or dom ........ just someone's unwelcome interjections and observations.

agirl

(in reply to nevergrowdup)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 12:48:35 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I will usually say something like "if it was me this is what I would do" or "imo I think this..." but in the end it's just my suggestion or opinion. After that I walk away from the situation and figure they're an adult and able ot figure out their own lives. I have enough of my own problems without having to feel some kind of need to fix someone else's.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 12:52:28 PM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		Or instead of being nosy and pushy, you could just ASK him if he minds if you offer your uncensored opinion about his situation or not.

_____________________________

Resident Hell Cat



(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 12:58:07 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Since he's already told you that he doesn't want your opinion, it's time for you not to offer it. He's an adult, he's already told you to butt out, so do so.

In other situations, you might just ask if they want your opinion or not.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 1:01:25 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		Sometimes even the most confident of people like to hear that others share their viewpoint. Or disagree.

_____________________________



(in reply to nevergrowdup)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 1:35:50 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		There's a difference in being concerned or controlling or even codependent.  Lots of people want their opinions or suggestions taken to heart and followed.  However, it sounds like your friend doesn't really want to have your cares, concerns, control, or opinions with his situation, so it is better to keep your feelings to yourself. 

I have a friend who likes to give me "sweet advice" but, since I have not asked for it, and it makes me feel like a little kid getting a lecture, I resent it.  I have recently told him that his opinion is his own, and he would do best to keep it to himself, unless otherwise specifically requested.  I tend to "thin out the herd" with friends who do this type of thing too often.  I'm a grown woman and I find it offensive.

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 1:38:01 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I would say, yes, it's possible to voice concern, depending on how you do it.

Now, if you are asked not to do so, then that should be your guide.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 1:45:13 PM   
Eigenaar


Posts: 352
Joined: 5/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nevergrowdup

I consider myself a submissive.  And perhaps I don't fit the stereotype.  If people at work heard that I was into BDSM they would assume I was a domme because:
  • I'm very analytical
  • I'm not shy
  • I tend to be passionate about an issue or a person
In other words, if I have something to say I'm going to say it.

And this creeps into my personal life as well.  If I see someone making bad decisions, I'm going to voice my opinion.

I have a very dear Dom friend who has a tendency to get into some interesting relationships.  You know, the head scratchers where I'm thinking, "Is this girl serious or playing with him?"  So as a thinking, outspoken person I say what's on my mind.  About six months ago he told me that he didn't appreciate my critical thoughts, although that seems strange since he seemed to enjoy the speculation.  The fact is that he himself is a very analytical person and has excellent judgment.  9 out of 10 times he's already considered what I had brought up.  I guess I should also mention that he, as a child, was in a situation where he didn't have control over his life (and was abused) ... so perhaps that explains why he is more sensitive to my comments than others.

There's a fine line between concern and control, and I'm not sure if I'm crossing that line.  Keep in mind that my friend and I have a platonic relationship, but this could just as well be about my anyone I care for, like my 19 year old daughter.  Sometimes you see warning flags.  If you pretty much trust the judgment of the friend, should you:
  • Say nothing.
  • Acknowledge that you are listening.  "Interesting.  Let me know how it works out."
  • Find something good to say and suppress the critical thinking, "I'm glad that she seems to trust you." (while not saying, "Isn't that inconsistent with what she told you before?")
  • Spill it.
I'm not in a D/s relationship, perhaps understandably.    And sometimes I wonder if that kind of relationship is a realistic goal.  Can a thinking submissive express concerns about a Dom without being controlling?

It is none of your concern and negative behaviour, this thread is about wanting to control your dominant friend who told you to leave it alone. So why start this thread!

(in reply to nevergrowdup)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 3:18:28 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Or, perhaps, maybe his not liking your "critical thought" had nothing to do with D/s, power, and control. Perhaps he just thought you were overly negative or butting in... you know... perfectly vanilla reasons.

To answer your question, whether or not I say somethign to someone else is a fine balancing act of several factors...

  • How close (emotionally) am I with this other person? Further away and I'm less likely to say something.
  • How sure am I? Random negative speculation is seldom worthwhile or welcome.
  • What is the likelihood it will be well received? There's no point in upsetting the applecart for no useful outcome.

Insofar as your whole mess about having opinions and being submissive... uh... in my mind, there is a clear distinction between "discussion" and "decision". Discussion is what Carol & I both do. Decision is what I do.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to nevergrowdup)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 3:33:29 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nevergrowdup
Can a thinking submissive express concerns about a Dom without being controlling?


Yep. My analytical thinking is one of the skills that he highly appreciates and uses to his advantage. The key in our relationship is that I express my opinion when given permission to express it.

The only issue I see is "if I have something to say I'm going to say it". That would not work in our house because if we have something to say we will only say it if he gives us permission. We are also not allowed to let our ego get tied up into our opinion either. He has many times given us permission to express our opinion and then completely disregarded it to do what he wanted to do. It would be a very frustrating life if Alandra and I expected him to do what we thought was best, so while we are often allowed to share our thoughts, we don't expect him to share our opinion.

Find a dominant who appreciates your critical thinking skills and who will allow you to freely express your opinion.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to nevergrowdup)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/27/2009 6:55:44 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		And op, there is no reason why a sub cannot be analytical, extroverted and passionate. I'm analytical and introverted, those are personality traits that have nothing to do with my preferred style of interpersonal relationship.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/28/2009 12:33:36 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		If he's requested that you butt out, then butt out. Adults are allowed to make the mistakes we blatantly see. Our children, I feel, should be guided until they are adults. Then, it's time to let go.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to nevergrowdup)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/28/2009 12:48:11 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		You support your friend and offer your thoughts if they ask you for them.  Otherwise, you just support them.
However, I would forget your friend for now and worry about yourself.  You have a very fucked up idea on the stereotype of a submissive and if you haven't got that worked out and continue to be blinkered then I would find any advice or thoughts you have to be a bit of a red flag personally.

the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to nevergrowdup)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/28/2009 2:05:08 PM   
kccuckoldmist


Posts: 97
Joined: 7/1/2009
Status: offline 		I welcome any voicing of opinions and concerns from my slave. Open communication is critical and something mentioned anytime we hear or read about problems in any type of relationship.

It is not the voicing of opinions and concerns that is a problem. It is when those opinions and concerns come with strings attached that are in fact not really opinions and concerns to think about or talk things over about but judgments and basically demands by the submissive that in their eyes are usually non debatable.

Basically from my experience it is not the fact a submissives voices anything but that the submissive has or does judge everything in life to be either a right or wrong thing or a better or worse thing and has not learned something completely different and more times than not the real answer it does not really matter. It is almost impossible to lead in a relationship where everything in it is subject to being graded by the submissive and for those who do that they need to learn to let go of that judgment and learn to voice without expectations for things that it really does not matter.



_____________________________

"The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

http://mistress-jen.blogspot.com/

(in reply to nevergrowdup)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/28/2009 11:12:56 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nevergrowdup

I consider myself a submissive.  And perhaps I don't fit the stereotype.  If people at work heard that I was into BDSM they would assume I was a domme because:
  • I'm very analytical
  • I'm not shy
  • I tend to be passionate about an issue or a person
In other words, if I have something to say I'm going to say it.

And this creeps into my personal life as well.  If I see someone making bad decisions, I'm going to voice my opinion.

I have a very dear Dom friend who has a tendency to get into some interesting relationships.  You know, the head scratchers where I'm thinking, "Is this girl serious or playing with him?"  So as a thinking, outspoken person I say what's on my mind.  About six months ago he told me that he didn't appreciate my critical thoughts, although that seems strange since he seemed to enjoy the speculation.  The fact is that he himself is a very analytical person and has excellent judgment.  9 out of 10 times he's already considered what I had brought up.  I guess I should also mention that he, as a child, was in a situation where he didn't have control over his life (and was abused) ... so perhaps that explains why he is more sensitive to my comments than others.

There's a fine line between concern and control, and I'm not sure if I'm crossing that line.  Keep in mind that my friend and I have a platonic relationship, but this could just as well be about my anyone I care for, like my 19 year old daughter.  Sometimes you see warning flags.  If you pretty much trust the judgment of the friend, should you:

  • Say nothing.
  • Acknowledge that you are listening.  "Interesting.  Let me know how it works out."
  • Find something good to say and suppress the critical thinking, "I'm glad that she seems to trust you." (while not saying, "Isn't that inconsistent with what she told you before?")
  • Spill it.
I'm not in a D/s relationship, perhaps understandably.    And sometimes I wonder if that kind of relationship is a realistic goal.  Can a thinking submissive express concerns about a Dom without being controlling?


I would advise asking these questions before being collared so that the controlling is not an issue

_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

(in reply to nevergrowdup)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/28/2009 11:39:43 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Can a thinking submissive express concerns about a Dom without being controlling?

Yes, of course. 
Understaing boundaries, demeanor, context...all very important things. 
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to Acer49)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/29/2009 12:51:00 AM   
angelslave77


Posts: 478
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		Firstly a sub is not a door mat, I am a mum of 4 ums under 9, a student and I work roughly 25 hours a week, I couldnt do those things if I wasnt a strong indepent motivated organised free thinking woman. I am also a submissive, my heart is happy, my soul is a peace when I am serving my Sir, so you can certainly be both.

I also have my own opinion on lots of things, but having spent my life on the recieving end of unwelcome judgement calls on my every descion, my advice to you would be leave it alone, he has asked you to leave it alone that should be enough.
There are times I strongly disagree with what those closest to me are doing but it is thier life, if they come to me and ask advice I will tell them what I have done in that situation. Had I not been in that situation I would probably just be a shoulder to lean on.

I personally think there is nothing worse than a controlling know it all who thinks they have the right to stick thier nose into every aspect of your life and it is a sure fire way to destroy a friendship

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Concern ... or control? - 9/29/2009 2:00:28 AM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		A healthy and responsible person will not choose to surrender until confidence is gained through experience with another person over time.
Trust is more often misplaced than it is breached.
Patience is a virtue. Choose a partner with virtue.

(in reply to angelslave77)
Profile   Post #: 20
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