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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 11:30:36 AM   
Eigenaar


Posts: 352
Joined: 5/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VirginPotty

For the "BDSM Lifestyle Patrol", kindly get off your high horse's and work on your own relationships IF you have one. If you don't that explains your obsession w/dp's.
The majority of posters seem to forget this dispute began when dp and others promoting uncontrolled possible lethal molestation and nearly total anarchy (besides grammar but including the overall accepted meaning of words) belittled those promoting more moderate bdsm relationships without being provoked by the latter. My earlier mentioned remark about the extremists being in favour of the death penalty seems overlooked either.

(in reply to VirginPotty)
Profile   Post #: 361
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 11:34:01 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

I didn't say common was defined as change. I said that the idea that the sense involved was common implies that it's common to the beliefs of the time and place, and as time and place changes then what is common changes as well. Hence, "implies" rather than "is defined as". And really what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?


Yes you did.  In your very own words.


Quote me saying "common is defined as change" please. Or any single sentence that involves the words "common" "defined" and "change" without the word "not" in it.

quote:

quote:

That is an interesting and utterly irrelevant tidbit.


As irrelevant as you comparing life to Afghanistan? 


We were discussing common sense. My point was that the sense is only common to a certain area and that another time or place would have an entirely different idea of what common sense is.

quote:

quote:

I'm less of an advocate and more of a passive supporter, in the case of capital crimes.

So, murder for murder.  Cool.


In certain circumstances, yes.

quote:

quote:

I'm not sure what you mean by that.


That our ethical stance is focused on our relationship, not intervening on others without their wish.


Or at least in some cases. Particularly, it's okay to try to convince me to change my worldview, but not okay to try to convince Daddysprop to change hers. Or so it would appear.

quote:

quote:

Is there a particular part you'd like clarified?

All of it.  The past.  Present circumstances.  Who are the people involved.  Everything.


Let's make it simple - what would be a deciding factor in changing your view from "ethical" to "unethical"?

quote:

quote:

I don't understand the question "what does that do for your life?" - how would reporting criminal behavior in someone else's home affect my life?

Exactly!
Awaits answer.


It would appear you are far more self-oriented than I am. I don't need a personal reward in order to be inspired to do something.

quote:

quote:

Obsessed? Seriously? I thought you only did discussion, not argument. What's with the potshots?


No potshot.  You said you were not obsessed - I am using your own words.  So if you say you aren't bothered neither obsessed - why do you have to report it?   Something erks you enough to report it.  What is it?  (Basically same question as above).


I am bothered by it. I'm not obsessed with it. I've said several times I find it disgusting, heinous, reprehensible, or at least the thesaurus equivalent.

quote:

quote:

No, I'm saying if Daddysprop isn't in a BDSM relationship she does herself a disservice by discussing it on a BDSM board where standards are different from her own.


This makes me smile at the thought of BDSM commonality.  Stick around and you will find none.


Obviously there's never going to be a 100% consensus, but I'd say that "BDSM is a consensual activity" is up in the high 90th percentile.

quote:

quote:

I don't know if I have much in common with the majority here. I know I don't have a perfect relationship.


Does the audience notice an inconsitancy here?


Are we having a discussion or playing for an audience?

If the latter, I'll take my bow and leave this conversation.

quote:

quote:

And what is it that separates the fantasy of rape from the reality of rape if not the consent of the one being raped?

Rape is rape and fantasy is fantasy.  I don't do fuzzy buzz words, remember?


I'm not asking for a buzzword. Imagine you're on a jury. A man is being tried for raping an adult woman. Presuming that there was sexual intercourse between the two, what would change your vote from conviction to acquittal other than proof that the woman was a willing participant?

quote:

quote:

Fair enough. I think that's the crux of where we differ.


I assist when someone asks, regardless of whether it suits me or not.  You do it when only when you want to.  Got it.


Unless you're being held at gunpoint, you assist only when you want to. We only differ in what inspires us to want to.

quote:

quote:

So the men who marched for womens' suffrage and the northern whites who fought against slavery were just nosey busybodies like me?


No.  Not like you at all.


Tell that to the plantation owners.

quote:

quote:

I just don't see how "she isn't asking you to stop him from abusing her" equates to "it's okay for him to abuse her."


Because she is in love and is happy.  How is that any different from ....
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Yeah I have one of those strange relationships where we're both happy and love each other.


How do we KNOW that you are competant?  Just because you are not a ward of anything does not mean you are competant.
We only have your word on that.


If you feel the need to report my relationship to the police, that's your prerogative. I'm not terribly worried about that, seeing as how I know I'm doing nothing wrong in the eyes of the law.

quote:

quote:

Well generally when you work on something it's because it needs work done. I prefer to treat relationships as a joint activity to participate in rather than a project to work on or a child to nurture.

Is "happy and in love" so rare that it's now considered perfection?

What's next is a marriage in December and hopefully quite a few decades together. Preferably involving the purchase of a house.


So you actively participate and not passively sit in it?  Honestly - pick a side and stick to it otherwise you just look really confused.
I know you think that I am taking potshots, but you are so all over the place constantly contradicting what you say.


When did I ever say I just passively sit in my relationship? If you're going to reference something you allege I said please provide a quote. I swear to God you're getting less and less on topic and more and more into the whole "I don't like what you're saying so I'm going to discredit you rather than reply to your words" ad hominem thing. Seriously, if you don't take a fork in the road in a few posts you'll be calling me names.

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 10/6/2009 11:35:20 AM >

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 362
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 11:34:12 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		WoW. All I can say right now, after reading this thread is WoW. It sounds like the 'goody-goody's, let's go save the world' are out in force.

I guess my question to all of them with that attitude is

"what gives you the right to say that another's relationship is wrong'?

You know, I have always enjoyed DP's posts; mainly because her relationship with her owner most closely resembles what mine was. It's nice to know sometimes that there are others out there who understand that need for the extreme.

I have been stabbed.
I have had bones crushed.
I have had bruises so bad that movement of any kind was pure torture.
He even shoved a gun down my throat once, told me that if I ever talked to him the way I did that time, that he would kill me. And yes, he was very serious.
In the past, I have had the cops called on us during some of our more public beatings.

Yes, what I had is what most, if not all, would consider abuse. BUT, I knew that I was going to have this going into the relationship. I chose it. I chose him, I chose that kind of relationship.

DP chose that kind of relationship.

There is nothing wrong with that. She's happy. I was happy. Fuck, I miss it.

Just because YOU may not like it; just because YOU may think it's wrong...does not make it wrong, nor does it mean that the person's involved don't like it.

Remember that Elisabella.
It's not your life to live. You have no rights in regards to another's way of living. If you can't accept it, fine, no one says you have to. But you should put your maturity to work and figure out that understanding does not equal acceptance.

*shakes head*

Some people just don't get it.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 363
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 11:42:00 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		OK, (and this is a general reply.......)

Was the question ever answered by anyone?

Curiously,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 364
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 11:43:05 AM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		My answer to what is Total Power Exchange?

Whatever you desire it to be (and makes you happy).

Too many drama llamas up in here. Time to get the scissors out so I may shear.

Good luck in life and whatever y'all believe in.


_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 365
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 11:43:58 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

"what gives you the right to say that another's relationship is wrong'?


I said it's abusive and illegal. Which it is.

quote:

I have been stabbed.
I have had bones crushed.
I have had bruises so bad that movement of any kind was pure torture.
He even shoved a gun down my throat once, told me that if I ever talked to him the way I did that time, that he would kill me. And yes, he was very serious.
In the past, I have had the cops called on us during some of our more public beatings.


As I said earlier in this thread, I really do question your sanity.

quote:

Yes, what I had is what most, if not all, would consider abuse. BUT, I knew that I was going to have this going into the relationship. I chose it. I chose him, I chose that kind of relationship.

DP chose that kind of relationship.

There is nothing wrong with that. She's happy. I was happy. Fuck, I miss it.


You know who else chooses their lifestyle? Self mutilators. Drug addicts. Serial killers. They're all doing what makes them happy, what gives them a rush, a release, what makes them feel truly "themselves."

Happy doesn't equal healthy.

quote:

Just because YOU may not like it; just because YOU may think it's wrong...does not make it wrong, nor does it mean that the person's involved don't like it.


Just because people like it doesn't make it right. Taken to the extreme, that line of thought is pure hedonism.

quote:

It's not your life to live. You have no rights in regards to another's way of living. If you can't accept it, fine, no one says you have to. But you should put your maturity to work and figure out that understanding does not equal acceptance.


Yeah see that's the thing. I can't stop you from seeking out relationships like that. And you can't stop me from intending to call the police if I witness a relationship like that.

The understanding I have of relationships like this is likely not the understanding you have of them.

quote:



Some people just don't get it.


No, I don't get it, and I likely never will. That doesn't mean I have to turn into froofy bunny girl and say I'm okay you're okay we're all okay, let's just do what gets us off. Yeah it's possible that at a current stage someone would want a relationship with someone who would murder them for talking a certain way. That doesn't mean there's no room for self improvement.

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 366
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 11:48:50 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

No, I don't get it, and I likely never will. That doesn't mean I have to turn into froofy bunny girl and say I'm okay you're okay we're all okay, let's just do what gets us off. Yeah it's possible that at a current stage someone would want a relationship with someone who would murder them for talking a certain way. That doesn't mean there's no room for self improvement.


Well, as I see it anyway, one's murder puts a hell of a venturi in the free flow of ideas leading to self improvement.

Maybe it's just me. I dunno.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 367
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 11:50:58 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

No, I don't get it, and I likely never will. That doesn't mean I have to turn into froofy bunny girl and say I'm okay you're okay we're all okay, let's just do what gets us off. Yeah it's possible that at a current stage someone would want a relationship with someone who would murder them for talking a certain way. That doesn't mean there's no room for self improvement.


Well, as I see it anyway, one's murder puts a hell of a venturi in the free flow of ideas leading to self improvement.

Maybe it's just me. I dunno.

Ron


And this is why it's a good thing that we don't always get what we want, no?

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 368
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 11:54:31 AM   
ishyB


Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline 		Greetings Bella,

Quick question, I hope you don't mind...

What are you advocating is the moral thing to happen to Daddysprop?
I mean, you're big problem here seems to be consent and the fact that she legally is not able to give consent.
You say that the fact that her guardian uses his legal powers over her to do exactly what she claims she want to have done to her is being abusive of his power over her and makes him a predator.
So are you saying that the ethical thing to do in this situation is to use the fact that she is legally not able to consent to force her away from a situation she wants (consents to) into a situation she does not wants (does not consent to).

In effect, you are thus saying that the ethical thing to do in this situation in to force two people, who do not bother anybody else with their life and relationship and both say they are perfectly happy, to go into a situation where other people would come in, decide over their lives, make them both miserable... all because it would serve some sick sense of "justice" in the social sense... simple because you happen to the type of person that would never be happy in such a relationship?

Now if Daddysprop was screaming for help, sure, I could see how it would feel it was your moral obligation to help her. But to go stick your nose into other people's business who have repeatedly expressed that they do not require any assistance...

Ethically speaking... -and let's leave legal formalities out of this, because we both know that legalities are not a reflection of ethics, but a reflection of geography and time period- what do you feel gives you the right to do that?

I wish you well,

ishy


_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

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Profile   Post #: 369
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 12:04:41 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB

Greetings Bella,

Quick question, I hope you don't mind...

What are you advocating is the moral thing to happen to Daddysprop?
I mean, you're big problem here seems to be consent and the fact that she legally is not able to give consent.


I'd say the moral thing to do is for her to go to court and get re-assessed, to see if her life is stable enough that she is able to make her own decisions. Then for her to get intensive therapy and a support network together to help her realize that she doesn't need to be abused to the point that her life is in danger in order to be happy.

quote:

You say that the fact that her guardian uses his legal powers over her to do exactly what she claims she want to have done to her is being abusive of his power over her and makes him a predator.


Actually that wasn't quite my logic. My logic was that he sought out an emotionally disturbed woman to have a M/s relationship with, which is disturbing enough, and rather than use his power over her to help her better herself he instead batters her and puts her in hospital.

Basically my problem with him is that he knowingly entered that type of relationship with someone who was at a disadvantage. Like I said earlier, it reminds me of someone who goes to a nursing home to tell the Alzheimers patients he's their high school sweetheart, then feels all proud of himself for sleeping with 3 women in one night. It's pathetic and it's weak.

quote:

In effect, you are thus saying that the ethical thing to do in this situation in to force two people, who do not bother anybody else with their life and relationship and both say they are perfectly happy, to go into a situation where other people would come in, decide over their lives, make them both miserable... all because it would serve some sick sense of "justice" in the social sense... simple because you happen to the type of person that would never be happy in such a relationship?


I think at the very least, an outside force should terminate his guardianship, as he's shown he's not able to care for a legal ward, and then assess their relationship with all the facts, not just the ones online, to determine if there has been a crime committed.

quote:

Now if Daddysprop was screaming for help, sure, I could see how it would feel it was your moral obligation to help her. But to go stick your nose into other people's business who have repeatedly expressed that they do not require any assistance...


My nose isn't that big, hon. She's broadcasting her business. I'm just responding to it.

quote:

Ethically speaking... -and let's leave legal formalities out of this, because we both know that legalities are not a reflection of ethics, but a reflection of geography and time period- what do you feel gives you the right to do that?


I don't see it as a right. I see it as a responsibility.

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 10/6/2009 12:05:29 PM >

(in reply to ishyB)
Profile   Post #: 370
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 12:10:46 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I said it's abusive and illegal. Which it is.

I broke the new UK laws concerning 'spousal abuse' in London every day I was there with beth. I dare say many posting on this thread break local sodomy and abuse laws daily depending up jurisdiction. Were "illegal" a benchmark of judging other people's actions with their partners - most of us would be behind bars regardless of it being 'consensual'. As we were told by our friends in London, you can't consent to 'abuse'.

That said, remember the old joke?

Man at Hotel Bar: Would you come up to my room and fuck me for a Million dollars?
Girl at Hotel Bar: Sure!
Man at Hotel Bar: Would you fuck me for $5?
Girl at Hotel Bar: NO! What do you think I am some cheap prostitute?
Man at Hotel Bar: Well, that you are a prostitute has already been established; now I'm negotiating price.

It's a matter of degrees isn't it?

Commonly, people who's 'abuse' comes mostly by their own hands, can't relate to those who, within their relationship, exchange sensations they've concluded are 'abusive'. Similar to anyone providing an example of the 'ideal long term BDSM relationship dynamic'; 'ideal' is impossible to prove. When people break up it creates the opportunity to say; "I told you so!" In this case - should the subject of all this attention die, "I told you so!" will also be appropriate. Only in death, of the relationship or an individual, is there a definitive result.

Meanwhile, qualifying that I have not met either of the principles, I'd say 'prop' and her 'daddy' represent a textbook example of 24/7 TPE. Our individual perspectives, definitions, and degrees of abuse are irrelevant when applied to them; as they would be if theirs were applied to any of us.

Good for them - congratulations to them for the longevity of their dynamic!

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 371
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 12:16:25 PM   
VirginPotty


Posts: 11624
Joined: 7/16/2008
From: Virginville
Status: offline 		Personally I think it's very rude to talk about folks like this thread is doing.
Dp & her Master both have OPEN acct's on the other side. If you have issues w/them (Him specifically) why don't you just tell Him instead of carrying on conversations about them on an Open Forum? I know, I know dp posted about their relationship on an Open Forum so all bets are off, right? Wrong! She posted openly & to the best of our knowledge honestly & she specifically told 1 poster not to make deragatory comments about her Master that she loves and yet you continue to do so.
Why has this thread turned into the "Is dp in a dangerous relationship....is she mentally competent" thread?


< Message edited by VirginPotty -- 10/6/2009 12:17:10 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 12:19:01 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Good point: where is he? Why doesn't he manifest himself, if this is so important?

I'm starting to believe that most of this isn't even true.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 373
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 12:20:02 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Elisabella
We had a discussion earlier two pages back - I know the moderators get annoyed by long quote boxes, and it annoys some readers.  I am not going to continue.
Your world is black and white.  Wonderful.
Mine is not.  Equally, yet differently wonderful.
BDSM is an acronym of four words.  No more, no less.  That is where the commonality begins and ends.  And even at that, there is a disagreement... but that is another thread...
I would not be on a jury.
I do not interfere in other peoples relationships unless it is requested or permitted.
Do you engage in a BDSM relationship?  If the answer is yes, then I would be surprised if your relationship was as legal as you make the think it to be - so please I would urge you to be careful.  If the answer is no - then maybe you should do the same as you suggested to DaddysProp?  And just to add, I in no way advocate you withdraw from the site - I believe that this site is for everyone, including DaddysProp.  I do however advocate following ones own advice, because if you do not, you only discredit yourself.
When did you ever say you just passively sit in your relationship?  You did not, but your words implied it and I asked for clarification.  A simple yes or no would have been fine.  There is no ad hom, just asking you to clarify your statements - statements that contradict each other now and then to certain people - that is all - and I am trying to understand your logic.  And as for 'topic' - you are not on topic. I am simply responding to you.

the.dark.

_____________________________
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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 12:20:21 PM   
VirginPotty


Posts: 11624
Joined: 7/16/2008
From: Virginville
Status: offline 		Probably because he figures that it's none of our business? It's like trying to argue religion & politics with a drunk.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 12:20:53 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Good point: where is he? Why doesn't he manifest himself, if this is so important?

I'm starting to believe that most of this isn't even true.


I don't know if it's true or not, but I do know if I did the types of things he does to my significant other, I sure wouldn't let her post them on the internet for the world to read.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 376
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 12:26:15 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VirginPotty

Probably because he figures that it's none of our business? It's like trying to argue religion & politics with a drunk.


Potty, this thing with Prop has been going on for years. Years ago, many people, including some rather respected posters, were already shuddering at her posts and questioning her safety and the integrity of the guy she's with. So it's no surprise that years later, as she continues to refer to her mental incompetence, his taking advantage of it, and his power of life and death over her, that some people keep on expressing concern. Frankly, there are ways to avoid public scrutiny, if one doesn't want it. As far as I see, these fora are a petri dish of gossip and discussions about everything and everybody, so it's not surprising at all that somebody like Prop should continue to make people talk.

It's all just talk, as far as we know.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 12:28:06 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Good point: where is he? Why doesn't he manifest himself, if this is so important?

I'm starting to believe that most of this isn't even true.


I don't know if it's true or not, but I do know if I did the types of things he does to my significant other, I sure wouldn't let her post them on the internet for the world to read.


Agreed, hence my increasing doubts about the veracity of all that we hear - and frankly, I find that thought rather comforting.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 378
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 12:33:07 PM   
ishyB


Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB

Greetings Bella,

Quick question, I hope you don't mind...

What are you advocating is the moral thing to happen to Daddysprop?
I mean, you're big problem here seems to be consent and the fact that she legally is not able to give consent.


I'd say the moral thing to do is for her to go to court and get re-assessed, to see if her life is stable enough that she is able to make her own decisions. Then for her to get intensive therapy and a support network together to help her realize that she doesn't need to be abused to the point that her life is in danger in order to be happy.



Moral in what way?
You're dragging legalities into this, but do you or do you not agree that laws should be created to serve the people.... NOT to control them.
If your stand is that laws serve the people, you also have to realize that legal does not equal right, or moral, or just. The law does the best it can, but very many laws do not serve the people at all, not as a group and not as individuals.

quote:

quote:

You say that the fact that her guardian uses his legal powers over her to do exactly what she claims she want to have done to her is being abusive of his power over her and makes him a predator.


Actually that wasn't quite my logic. My logic was that he sought out an emotionally disturbed woman to have a M/s relationship with, which is disturbing enough, and rather than use his power over her to help her better herself he instead batters her and puts her in hospital.

Basically my problem with him is that he knowingly entered that type of relationship with someone who was at a disadvantage. Like I said earlier, it reminds me of someone who goes to a nursing home to tell the Alzheimers patients he's their high school sweetheart, then feels all proud of himself for sleeping with 3 women in one night. It's pathetic and it's weak.


So what if he does?
By doing that he is NOT seeking out woman who do not consent and making them miserable by trying to force them to abide by his ways...


quote:


quote:

In effect, you are thus saying that the ethical thing to do in this situation in to force two people, who do not bother anybody else with their life and relationship and both say they are perfectly happy, to go into a situation where other people would come in, decide over their lives, make them both miserable... all because it would serve some sick sense of "justice" in the social sense... simple because you happen to the type of person that would never be happy in such a relationship?


I think at the very least, an outside force should terminate his guardianship, as he's shown he's not able to care for a legal ward, and then assess their relationship with all the facts, not just the ones online, to determine if there has been a crime committed.


Okay, let’s play the "outside objective force" game.
An outside objective force comes in and examines Daddysprop's, Irishmist's and my life.
They come to the conclusion that the three of us would all seek out men that would be willing to kill them in certain circumstances. Men that would be considered abusive by a large part of the population. They also come to the conclusion that we all claim to be happy and fulfilled with these men, as do the men say that they are happy and fulfilled with having us.
Lastly, it is found that, if by force we would be taken away from these men and left to our own devices, we would go back to find other men and start exactly the same type of relationship all over again, the same thing again applies to the men.

So... you are basically saying that the just and moral thing to do here is to take Daddysprop, Irishmist and me, and lock us up in a therapy center, forcing us to undergo therapy (brainwashing?) until we react exactly to men and relationships as you seem to think we should.
Same thing applies to the men... lock them up and force them to undergo brainwashing -euhm therapy- until they do exactly what you -society?- thinks they should do.
This would make everybody happy I assume? Including the people involved? Or it would just make you sleep easier at night, because it was easier for you to understand and process?

And... this is consenting adults we are still talking about right? Consenting meaning PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AT ALL ASKING FOR ANY HELP WHATSOEVER.


quote:

quote:

Now if Daddyspop was screaming for help, sure, I could see how it would feel it was your moral obligation to help her. But to go stick your nose into other people's business who have repeatedly expressed that they do not require any assistance...


My nose isn't that big, hon. She's broadcasting her business. I'm just responding to it.


Okay, you are right, your nose isn't that big, I can attest to that...
But you are wrong that you are not sticking your small nose into her business Bella...
She is not broadcasting her business, screaming for you to come help and save her... she is just trying to have a conversation about a topic of mutual interest to you both.
And you -after hearing her opinion, trying to change it by words and failing at that- have openly stated that you would call the cops in an attempt to conform her opinion with your own. You feel that she should be made to go to therapy -to improve- just because you do not agree with the way she is feeling.

quote:


quote:

Ethically speaking... -and let's leave legal formalities out of this, because we both know that legalities are not a reflection of ethics, but a reflection of geography and time period- what do you feel gives you the right to do that?


I don't see it as a right. I see it as a responsibility.



You see it as your responsibility to go save a bunch of people, who do not want help, have not asked for it, are not bothering anyone, do not affect your life in any way, just because they happen to have a different lifestyle than you do.
And before you bring legalities back into play...
Homosexuality was and still is illegal in a lot of places. Do you see it as your moral responsibility to go report homosexuals in those regions to make sure that they are brainwashed until they confirm with the legal set of standards that happen to be imposed in their culture in their time period?

Again, when dealing with people that are asking for help, or are bothering people that do not wish to be bothered by their behavior, you are talking about different things... but I haven't seen anybody here cry for help... have you?

I wish you well,

ishy


< Message edited by ishyB -- 10/6/2009 12:36:26 PM >

_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 379
RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/6/2009 12:42:27 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

You know who else chooses their lifestyle? Self mutilators. Drug addicts. Serial killers. They're all doing what makes them happy, what gives them a rush, a release, what makes them feel truly "themselves."

Happy doesn't equal healthy.

Actually, it does. Because human sentience prioritizes psychological happiness over bodily health. The nonsensical suggestion otherwise is why I won't be able to buy clove cigarettes once stores run out of their stock: because some moralistic self-righteous crusader(s) feel they have the place to decide for me what happiness should be.

I don't recall any adage that ever read: "Life, liberty. and the pursuit of health".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Just because people like it doesn't make it right. Taken to the extreme, that line of thought is pure hedonism.

Yes, it does. That is precisely what "right" is. This is a base tenet in the understanding of anthropological human philosophy. We are all hedonists. The only difference between people is that some hedonists are deluded as to their hedonism being one that must be universal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Yeah see that's the thing. I can't stop you from seeking out relationships like that. And you can't stop me from intending to call the police if I witness a relationship like that.

That's a fundamentally cowardly point of view. It's moral blackmail. It's repulsive. It's only permissibility being that human thought and tolerance has not graduated to a sufficient level to where people can't get away with stuff like this.

These words may as well have been spoken by a white supremacist 60 years ago threatening to call the cops on a white woman who is having a liaison with a black man.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

No, I don't get it, and I likely never will. That doesn't mean I have to turn into froofy bunny girl and say I'm okay you're okay we're all okay, let's just do what gets us off. Yeah it's possible that at a current stage someone would want a relationship with someone who would murder them for talking a certain way. That doesn't mean there's no room for self improvement.

Just no room for your self-improvement, right? No room to understand this mentality makes you no better than any bigot of any era in human history. People all throughout civilization have committed atrocities not because they were bad people inherently, but because they so fervently believed they knew how other people should live that they were willing to threaten the sanctity of those people's lives to assuage their dogmatic delusions.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 10/6/2009 12:44:23 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
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(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 380
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