RE: Lent!

RE: Lent! (Full Version)

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Gauge -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 1:16:06 PM)
quote: So the Pagan religion had very big festivals, remember, on Easter and Christmas. Christian religion came along and had very big festivals, at Easter and Christmas. Jesus died on one and was born on the other. Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm… Cause cough Jesus, I do think did exist. You know, and, uh, he, uh, was a, I think, uh, a guy who had interesting ideas in the Gandhi-type area, in the, umm, Nelson Mandela-type area. You know, relaxed and groovy. And, uh, the Romans thought, “Relaxed and groovy, nooo no no no no.” Umm, so they murdered him. And kids eat chocolate eggs, because of the color of the chocolate, and the color of the…wood on the cross. Well, you tell me! It’s got nothing to do with it, has it! You know, people going, uhh, “Remember kids,” the kids who’re eating the chocolate eggs, uhh, “Jesus died for your sins.” “Yeah, I know, it’s great! No, no no, it’s bad, it’s bad! No, it’s bad! It’s very bad. It’s terrible! Whatever you want, I mean – just keep giving me these eggs.” And the bunny rabbits! Where do they come into the crucifixion? There were no bunny rabbits up on the hill going, “Hey – you – what, are you going to put those crosses in our – bur – warrens? We live below this hill, all right?” Bunny rabbits are for shagging, eggs are for fertility. It’s a festival – it’s the spring festival! Christmastime, you know, Jesus, uhhh, born to a big jolly guy in a red jacket. “Ho, ho, ho! Ho, ho, ho, baby Jesus! And what would you like for Christmas?” “Peace on Earth and goodwill towards men.” “Well, what about a clockwork train?” “Oh, yes, much better. Forget – forget peace on earth, I don’t care. There are three things I am highly reluctant to talk about: Religion, politics and The Great Pumpkin.

IronBear -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 1:17:38 PM)
My objection, was not made on any Moral grounds, or as an attack on someone whom I rarely agree with. It was not made under the auspices of a Gorean Lifestyle Master or in any manner in which the CM family see me. It was made from the grounds of a single stance. The stance of a Pagan Priest who was ordained as such some 37 years ago and who found that the post was to my sensibilities and all I hold to be true, to be offensive. For this alone will I stand my ground and let those who wish to flame, flame. Irrespective of cost, there are some things I will not tollerate and keep silent about. ite missa est

Mercnbeth -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 1:36:46 PM)
quote: what did you give up for Lent and why? nothing. because this slave has never been a part of any sect of Christianity that required it...or had ceremonies that included wiping ash on one's forehead. quote: Do you think Christians are missing out or have the better end of the deal with their lack of sacrifice? No. this slave has found each sect of Christianity she has ever encountered encourages sacrifice, especially of that 10% you need to be laying down on the altar every meeting day...sacrifice your time to charity work so that the ministry is kept alive,of money, property--tax deductible donations???, of earthly desires--living a "Christian" life for some can mean sacrificing happiness, of birth control options, the use of technology, interactions with society(the dreaded "others") and/or posessions every day for as long as they live. personally, this slave finds that the "better end of the deal" comes with as much sacrifice as you can mentally, emotionally and physically stand, which of course, will vary~Protestant, Catholic, et al.

IronBear -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 1:38:22 PM)
Bravo!!!!!!!!!

MsIncognito -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 3:25:35 PM)
Just out of curiousity, what was it that offended you about that post? While I don't agree with LA's assertion in that post (mostly because they are all Christians, so comparing dolphins to humans is not a valid analogy, IMO) I didn't find it particularly offensive either. And I say that as a lapsed cradle catholic turned apathetic agnostic. quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear My objection, was not made on any Moral grounds, or as an attack on someone whom I rarely agree with. It was not made under the auspices of a Gorean Lifestyle Master or in any manner in which the CM family see me. It was made from the grounds of a single stance. The stance of a Pagan Priest who was ordained as such some 37 years ago and who found that the post was to my sensibilities and all I hold to be true, to be offensive. For this alone will I stand my ground and let those who wish to flame, flame. Irrespective of cost, there are some things I will not tollerate and keep silent about. ite missa est

pollux -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 3:32:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge and The Great Pumpkin. He's a very divisive figure.

pollux -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 3:33:45 PM)
Hey, where's LaMalinche anyway? Forget this Lent stuff. Purim's a lot more fun.

BitaTruble -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 3:47:32 PM)
quote: And dolphins are also mammals, but completely different animals from humans. ' If that analogy is you saying that Catholics are completely different from Christians, you are, quite simply, wrong. If you are a Catholic, you ARE a Christian. Dolphins are not a subculture of humans and Catholics ARE a subculture of Christianity. Celeste

Mercnbeth -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 4:11:56 PM)
Point(s) of information... The calendar timing of western religious (Europe) holidays ALL are based not on any specific, historically accurate calendar event, but to conform with the holidays of the "old religions". Long before there was even the possibility of someone being identified as "Christian" there were holidays marking important calendar events. The solstices, winter and summer, and the equinoxes, vernal (spring) and autumnal (fall). Religion must be "sold". Potential converts had these holidays. If you ever try to take away a holiday from an employee you know how difficult the process is. When you are trying to "sell" a religion, it's a good idea to not take away the holidays. Instead you change them to suit the purposes of whatever religion it is that you want to sell. The Winter solstice, the darkest, longest night of the year where you need faith that the light would return is a perfect time to pick as the birthday of your "savior" the "light of the world". Does anyone NOT know that based upon written record, both biblical and Roman in origin, that the timing of Christ's birth could not have been December? The vernal equinox, spring, a time where life springs forth from death is the perfect time to make a martyr of that savior and have him rise from the dead. This site will provide additional basic reference: http://www.equinox-and-solstice.com/ The talisman change, from the fertility inspired rabbit and egg to spiritual rebirth from the body and blood of Christ. The evergreen tree promises the green of summer in darkest winter. The nativity promises that a deliverer has been born who will eventually bring mankind into the light. The planning and salesmanship is admirable. So what? The audience at the time was primitive, and uneducated. Their lives were hard. The night and darkness was to be feared. Faith is what keeps civilization civil. Without religion we would have to rely on the basic morals of humanity. How scary it that? If for no other reason - religion is important. Without the fear instilled in many by religion we'd have chaos. There are not enough police to replace self control that is policed by morality which for the most part, has been instilled by religion. On topic: As for me, a recovering catholic, with a short stop over at methodist, I'm giving up brussels spouts and mashed potatoes. Been doing so for 20 years. I'm so "devout" I usually maintain my "sacrifice" throughout the year.

windchymes -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 5:25:23 PM)
Giving up mashed potatoes IS a true sacrifice. You're defininitely getting into heaven![:D]

krikket -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 5:52:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 Organized religion. "Ditto" i don't normally do "that", but after scaring my unmentionable with my laughter, i can't resist..LOL!!!!

Submotive -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 6:09:02 PM)
i gave up Catholocism for Lent one year. It was such a good idea i just stuck with it.

IronBear -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 6:15:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsIncognito Just out of curiousity, what was it that offended you about that post? While I don't agree with LA's assertion in that post (mostly because they are all Christians, so comparing dolphins to humans is not a valid analogy, IMO) I didn't find it particularly offensive either. And I say that as a lapsed cradle catholic turned apathetic agnostic. quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear My objection, was not made on any Moral grounds, or as an attack on someone whom I rarely agree with. It was not made under the auspices of a Gorean Lifestyle Master or in any manner in which the CM family see me. It was made from the grounds of a single stance. The stance of a Pagan Priest who was ordained as such some 37 years ago and who found that the post was to my sensibilities and all I hold to be true, to be offensive. For this alone will I stand my ground and let those who wish to flame, flame. Irrespective of cost, there are some things I will not tollerate and keep silent about. ite missa est LA's careless and flip attitude towards something which I and others hold sacrosanct. Had she done what may have been expected whenshe realised that at least one person was offended, and made some form of appology and statingit unintentional, I would have shut up. I can't speek for those who privately messaged me in support, and there were nore than a few. However LA being LA will not make any form of appology and even compounds it with kher story about the crusifiction and thr rest of her crap. I am fair about this though. It is no secret that there is no lovce lost between LA and myself. Yet were she to post to another thread and I found that she said all I would have and said it mure succinctly, I would post a congratulatory and supportive post. In such situations i prefer to look at things on a case by case basis. From my part there is no ongoing animosity. I am not one of those who would like to see LA gone from CM. Each person here adds to the matrix which is CM..

maybemaybenot -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 7:15:50 PM)
I find it quite amusing that almost every " Christian " related thread I have read on this site is initiated by non Christians. Got me to thinking, there are many holy days or holidays this month, so let's give equal time to all. Purim is an upcoming holiday this month. Any one want to begin a thread on the different celebrations of Purin between Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Jews ? It includes a minor fast, which is required by some sects, not by others. Any one want to hop on which one is the more devout in their beliefs pertaining to Judiasm ? Also, the eldely and sick are exempt from fast in the Jewish religion, do they have the better deal ? Magha Puja Day and Avolokitesvara's Birthday are this month. How about a discussion on the differing celebration between Sri Lankan Buddhists, Cambodian Buddhists and Chinese Buddhists ? And which one has the holier celebration ? Maha Shivaratri Vrat and Holi are also this month. Lets discuss the the ways in which differing Hindu sects celebrate these occasions, and again. Who is the more devout Hindu. Mawlid al-nabi is also this month. Shal we have a debate on whether Sunni or Shite tradition and celebebration is a better gauge of the Muslim faith ? In other words : Christianity is not the only religion to have multiple denominations/sects et al. Most organized religions have different ways of celebrating or devotion. The way in which one shows their faith in their God or religion is of little importance. It is the way they live their religion and what is in their heart. My apologies to the Pagan and Wiccan members, I am not as well read on those religions as the more * traditional * ones. So if I missed a March holiday feel free to add to the list. mbmbn

windchymes -> RE: Lent! (3/2/2006 9:06:17 PM)
After having practiced and/or "investigated" several different Christian-based religions, and growing up sharing Christmases with my Jewish cousins (figure that one out), I've also realized that "organized religion" is just not for me. Unfortunately, it's not the religions themselves that turn me off, but the holier-than-thou attitudes of those inside the walls of the churches. The ones I call "Christian with a Capital C". When times got tough in my life, the first ones to turn their backs and the last ones to offer support were the "C"hristians. Because I wouldn't join her in "fellowship", my now former best friend cut me off from contact with her children and told me that my misfortunes in life were from not living a "Christian enough lifestyle". Yet, I remained on the mass emailing list for prayer requests....for things like "please pray for us, as God has blessed us with a new car, but we can't decide on the color. Should we choose red or blue?" I realized I was "spiritual", not "religious" and have only ever found true solace in, corny as this sounds, doing nice things for other people, enjoying life's simple pleasures, and feeling a strong kinship with nature. Wicca may be my next "investigation". I'haven't met a Pagan or Wiccan yet that I didn't like :)

IronBear -> RE: Lent! (3/3/2006 2:02:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot I find it quite amusing that almost every " Christian " related thread I have read on this site is initiated by non Christians. Got me to thinking, there are many holy days or holidays this month, so let's give equal time to all. Purim is an upcoming holiday this month. Any one want to begin a thread on the different celebrations of Purin between Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Jews ? It includes a minor fast, which is required by some sects, not by others. Any one want to hop on which one is the more devout in their beliefs pertaining to Judiasm ? Also, the eldely and sick are exempt from fast in the Jewish religion, do they have the better deal ? Magha Puja Day and Avolokitesvara's Birthday are this month. How about a discussion on the differing celebration between Sri Lankan Buddhists, Cambodian Buddhists and Chinese Buddhists ? And which one has the holier celebration ? Maha Shivaratri Vrat and Holi are also this month. Lets discuss the the ways in which differing Hindu sects celebrate these occasions, and again. Who is the more devout Hindu. Mawlid al-nabi is also this month. Shal we have a debate on whether Sunni or Shite tradition and celebebration is a better gauge of the Muslim faith ? In other words : Christianity is not the only religion to have multiple denominations/sects et al. Most organized religions have different ways of celebrating or devotion. The way in which one shows their faith in their God or religion is of little importance. It is the way they live their religion and what is in their heart. My apologies to the Pagan and Wiccan members, I am not as well read on those religions as the more * traditional * ones. So if I missed a March holiday feel free to add to the list. mbmbn The Eight Great Festivals ~ Pagan Northern Hemisphere Feb 1st ~ Imblog (Disting, Candlemas) March 19 -22 ~ Oatara (Spring Equinox) May 1 ~ Beltain June 19 – 22 ~ Summer Solstice Aug 1 ~ Lughnasadah (Lammas) Sept 19 – 22 ~ Mabon (Autumn Equinox) Oct 31 ~ Samhuin (Samhain, Halloween, Hallowe’en) Dec 19 – 22 ~ Yule Southern Hemisphere Feb 1st ~ Lughnasadah (Lammas) March 19 -22 ~ Mabon (Autumn Equinox) May 1 ~ Samhuin (Samhain, Halloween, Hallowe’en) June 19 – 22 ~ Yule (Winter Solstice) Aug 1 ~ Imblog (Disting, Candlemas) Sept 19 – 22 ~ Ostara (Spring Equinox) Oct 31 ~ Beltain Dec 19 – 22 ~ Summer Solstice These Festivals are tied to seasonal changes and so are revered in the opposing Hemisphere.

MsIncognito -> RE: Lent! (3/3/2006 6:15:41 AM)
Thanks for explaining, though I will honestly admit I'm still not sure why an erroneous analogy would cause such agita but I won't argue that you shouldn't be offended. LA isn't the only one who thinks Catholics aren't Christians - there are some Christians who hold fast to the belief that Catholics aren't Christians! I remember seeing religious tracts in a cartoon form that stated all the reasons why Catholics aren't Christians (Madonna worship, for one...can't recall the others) and these are distributed far and wide by some of the more strident Christian sects. To my way of thinking the dolphin/human analogy is significantly less offensive than distributing such propoganda. Edited to add: check out Chick Tracts (http://www.chick.com/default.asp) for some mighty fine examples of this kind of propoganda. Right on the main page it has a link to a book called "Did the Catholic Church give us the Bible?" with the banner "Have you been tricked?" Lots of anti-Catholicism stuff in there from folks who consider themselves Christians. quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear LA's careless and flip attitude towards something which I and others hold sacrosanct. Had she done what may have been expected whenshe realised that at least one person was offended, and made some form of appology and statingit unintentional, I would have shut up. I can't speek for those who privately messaged me in support, and there were nore than a few. However LA being LA will not make any form of appology and even compounds it with kher story about the crusifiction and thr rest of her crap. I am fair about this though. It is no secret that there is no lovce lost between LA and myself. Yet were she to post to another thread and I found that she said all I would have and said it mure succinctly, I would post a congratulatory and supportive post. In such situations i prefer to look at things on a case by case basis. From my part there is no ongoing animosity. I am not one of those who would like to see LA gone from CM. Each person here adds to the matrix which is CM..

candystripper -> RE: Lent! (3/3/2006 6:20:28 AM)
quote: That young lady is the most ignorant and arrogant post I have seen you make.. You really don't give a shit who you offend as long a LA's huge ego is fed do you? Frankly I tire of yout smart arsed, self serving replies. I may not be Christian but I am offended with your reply. Deeply offended. IronBear IB...in LA's defense i think she spoke without thinking...not meaning any anti-Catholic bias. Believe me, i have seen it, and it's not subtle. candystripper

candystripper -> RE: Lent! (3/3/2006 6:23:39 AM)
quote: If that analogy is you saying that Catholics are completely different from Christians, you are, quite simply, wrong. If you are a Catholic, you ARE a Christian. Dolphins are not a subculture of humans and Catholics ARE a subculture of Christianity. Celeste Yeah, flawed analogy...but i'm reluctant to infer any malice. candystripper

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Lent! (3/3/2006 6:24:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsIncognito LA isn't the only one who thinks Catholics aren't Christians - there are some Christians who hold fast to the belief that Catholics aren't Christians! LOL my analogy wasn't trying to say that catholics aren't christians. I was trying to say that yes, catholics are one of the many types of christians out there, just like dolphins are one of the many types of mammals out there. But when you're talking about a specific type of mammal, bringing up the fact that it belongs in an overarching class of things known as "mammals" isn't really the point. I was trying to get ideas on how people viewed catholicism versus christianity in general/other types of christians, when it came to the concept of Lent/overt ritual sacrifice.

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