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Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 9:02:06 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

Calla, I try not to be pushy about it, but after 6 months to a year, I generally start to figure that if they don't feel that way about me, I'm not likely to be able to do anything to change their mind. I've broken up with a couple of people over that in the past, even if the rest of our relationship was going very well. Maybe I'm too impatient, but I do need to both be able to hear it, and to trust that they actually mean it/are experiencing it.

This was borrowed from a response to another thread, because I have a question -- not just for the original author of the above, but for anyone who feels interested in answering...

I didn't want to hijack the Building Love thread, but I'm curious... if everything else is working, and you're, in general, happy... do you still feel compelled to have to hear specific words or have specific things (like a collar or engagement ring or wedding band) before you allow yourself to find lasting joy in the relationship or believe that the relationship is real?

Would you leave a generally happy, fulfilling relationship just because there -weren't- specific words used by the other person to describe that relationship, even if everything -happening- in the relationship was exactly what you were looking for?

Thanks everyone, in advance, for your responses.

Dame Calla

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Post #: 1

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 9:35:47 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
Would you leave a generally happy, fulfilling relationship just because there -weren't- specific words used by the other person to describe that relationship, even if everything -happening- in the relationship was exactly what you were looking for?

Difficult question Dame Calla. I think, in part, your getting the cart before the horse. My thought is that yes, words matter... words matter a LOT. SO do symbols. Those things help to shape our reality which, in turn, affects whether or not I am happy and fulfilled.

If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be so ardently supportive of gay marriage.

Now, if you could somehow take Carol's and my relationship as it sits today then strip it of all symbols and words, yeah, I'd still love it. But I dont' think that's really possible. Those symbols and words are, in part, what made it what it is.

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Post #: 2

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 9:48:48 AM

GreedyTop

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I do need to hear the words. But equally important are the actions.

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Post #: 3

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 10:08:40 AM

DesFIP

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Yes, because if we aren't both on the same page about how we feel and the ability to say so, to show it, to commit in a way that means something important to each of us, then it would not be a happy and fulfilling relationship.

If neither of us loved each other, we would be friendly, fuck buddies if you will. But not the deeper fulfillment that I need in a relationship.

These seems to be a 5 languages of love thing. Some of us need the words, others are fine without them. But if you can't extend yourself to show me love in the way I need it, then you don't really love me. Of course, these days I simply find it easier to find someone who speaks the same love language that I do. One more item in a long list of compatibility.

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Post #: 4

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 10:53:26 AM

dreamerdreaming

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I need love lavished upon me, (and I need to bathe my slaveboy in it as well) and I do also require someone who is comfy saying "I love you". That is, I need it both in word and deed. Love binds my slaveboy and I together.

Since I require that love and adoration are spoken and demonstrated between us, I carefully chose a slaveboy who is willingly obedient in this regard.

I didn't used to think that love was quite so important as my slave's willing obedience, but now my feelings about that may be changing. For example: if he were no longer my slave but he still loved me, that would be yummy. But if he stayed my happily obedient slave and yet no longer adored me, perhaps I would find that an empty and unfulfilling situation for me. Perhaps my heart would be broken and I would end up releasing him anyway, because of it.

But I digress....

To reiterate: Choose a partner who fits your needs to begin with. You are the author of your own life. Live the life that you want to live. Live the life you were born for. Be who you need to be. Don't wait- do it now. Begin making the changes that you need to make. If you don't have a partner with whom your needs, desires and goals mesh well, you'd be better off alone.

Thanks for the great thread, OP!

*steps down off soapbox*

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Post #: 5

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 11:03:33 AM

AquaticSub

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Yes.

Because the relationship isn't lasting if they can't commit to me the way I need in a long-term relationship, just as it would be over if I couldn't commit to them in they way they needed me to.

Valyraen knew from the begining that while we were going to have fun in our relationship and weren't going to take ourselves too seriously, I was looking to find a serious relationship that would lead to a marriage and a family. I made no secret of the fact that if we were together several years and it didn't look like we were heading that way, we would split up. He was looking for the same thing and, happily, things did work out. One week and three days to the big day!!!

It's like everything being perfect but they are a smoker or addicted to booze and drugs. It doesn't matter if it's just one thing because it's a big thing for those who care deeply about it.

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Post #: 6

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 11:17:22 AM

looking4princess

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quote:

Would you leave a generally happy, fulfilling relationship just because there -weren't- specific words used by the other person to describe that relationship, even if everything -happening- in the relationship was exactly what you were looking for?

Excuse me, maybe i am missing something here. People say yes, they would leave a happy, fulfilling relationship because a few words are missing? What MADNESS!! Have you forgotten how hard it is to find happiness in this random swirl of molecules and sweaty genitles? Puhleeze people, tell me you're kidding. For fux sakes, you want to throw away happiness ... that most rare and precious commodity of the most often pathetic and lonely human condition. Oh right! Just run down to the corner store and buy another bottle of happiness. Sorry, seems foolish talk this.

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Post #: 7

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 11:21:54 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: looking4princess

quote:

Would you leave a generally happy, fulfilling relationship just because there -weren't- specific words used by the other person to describe that relationship, even if everything -happening- in the relationship was exactly what you were looking for?

Excuse me, maybe i am missing something here. People say yes, they would leave a happy, fulfilling relationship because a few words are missing? What MADNESS!! Have you forgotten how hard it is to find happiness in this random swirl of molecules and sweaty genitles? Puhleeze people, tell me you're kidding. For fux sakes, you want to throw away happiness ... that most rare and precious commodity of the most often pathetic and lonely human condition. Oh right! Just run down to the corner store and buy another bottle of happiness. Sorry, seems foolish talk this.

You've missed the point completely. Without that aspect, we wouldn't actually be happy. It's like being with a wonderful, loving, attentive man who positively hates kids, won't ever have them and you desperately want to be a mom.

Sometimes love just isn't enough or it isn't deep enough. It sucks but that is the truth of the matter. I've loved many people who loved me as well but it just wasn't enough so we each moved on and are happier for it.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to looking4princess)

Post #: 8

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 11:45:35 AM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

Would you leave a generally happy, fulfilling relationship just because there -weren't- specific words used by the other person to describe that relationship, even if everything -happening- in the relationship was exactly what you were looking for?

no, because i feel expression can manifest itself in multiple ways and dimensions. some people are verbally oriented, others are more demonstrative through acts of service, gifts, etc. several years ago i read the five love languages series. i believe it was probably the best thing i could have done at that time to understand how people communicate from the heart. we're not wired the same and shouldn't expect people to think and react the way that we do.

if i have someone that is good to and good for me but isn't verbally demonstrative about his feelings, yet he has shown me in countless ways that i do matter and he cares. why on earth would i step away from that? i'm a collaborative partner. i prefer to find ways to bring us closer than focus on the minute areas where we differ.

perhaps i've accepted that sometimes what one needs arrives in a guise that was not expected. clinging to outdated ideals creates missed opportunities and a million what if's that will never be answered.

porcelaine

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Post #: 9

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 12:15:23 PM

daintydimples

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I would not be happy in a relationship where someone could not articulate their deeper feelings for me. Not so much b/c of their lack of ability to say "I love you," I prefer to be shown that (although hearing it, if you think its' genuine, is very nice). It's that if you can't share your deeper feelings, that means there's a LOT we can't share. Too much that can't be adequately communicated.

I would see it as a symptom of a deep seated emotional a/o spiritual incompatibility.

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Post #: 10

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 12:36:34 PM

looking4princess

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quote:

You've missed the point completely. Without that aspect, we wouldn't actually be happy. It's like being with a wonderful, loving, attentive man who positively hates kids, won't ever have them and you desperately want to be a mom.

Well, the original premise stipulated Happiness. I think you have changed that by saying, oh i wasn't really happy because of this or that. I don't think i missed the point put fwd by the OP

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Post #: 11

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 12:42:49 PM

looking4princess

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Joined: 4/9/2008
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quote:

I would not be happy in a relationship where someone could not articulate their deeper feelings for me. Not so much b/c of their lack of ability to say "I love you," I prefer to be shown that (although hearing it, if you think its' genuine, is very nice). It's that if you can't share your deeper feelings, that means there's a LOT we can't share. Too much that can't be adequately communicated.

I would see it as a symptom of a deep seated emotional a/o spiritual incompatibility.

Or maybe like many men (allegedly) your guy is just inarticulate in his skill set. So, deduct a few dozen points, for goodness sakes, and get on with the pursuit of happiness. Isn't that just like a woman? Tell me what you're thinking, Fred! Well, duh, Wilma, i donno..Yep, sometimes guys are just bashful with words. Words are women's tools and the realm of poets. Most men, i dare say, are not poets. Give us a break, ladies. 4fuxsake.

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vincent....

Where would we be without the agitators of the world attaching the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples of ignorance? I ask you.

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Post #: 12

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 12:46:40 PM

bliss4us09

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No. Deeds always trump words for me.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 13

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 12:49:23 PM

looking4princess

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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

Would you leave a generally happy, fulfilling relationship just because there -weren't- specific words used by the other person to describe that relationship, even if everything -happening- in the relationship was exactly what you were looking for?

quote:

no, because i feel expression can manifest itself in multiple ways and dimensions. some people are verbally oriented, others are more demonstrative through acts of service, gifts, etc. several years ago i read the five love languages series. i believe it was probably the best thing i could have done at that time to understand how people communicate from the heart. we're not wired the same and shouldn't expect people to think and react the way that we do.

if i have someone that is good to and good for me but isn't verbally demonstrative about his feelings, yet he has shown me in countless ways that i do matter and he cares. why on earth would i step away from that? i'm a collaborative partner. i prefer to find ways to bring us closer than focus on the minute areas where we differ.

perhaps i've accepted that sometimes what one needs arrives in a guise that was not expected. clinging to outdated ideals creates missed opportunities and a million what if's that will never be answered.

porcelaine

Thank you, porcelaine. You make the case most excellantly.

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vincent....

Where would we be without the agitators of the world attaching the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples of ignorance? I ask you.

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RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 1:02:28 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: looking4princess

quote:

Would you leave a generally happy, fulfilling relationship just because there -weren't- specific words used by the other person to describe that relationship, even if everything -happening- in the relationship was exactly what you were looking for?

Excuse me, maybe i am missing something here. People say yes, they would leave a happy, fulfilling relationship because a few words are missing? What MADNESS!! Have you forgotten how hard it is to find happiness in this random swirl of molecules and sweaty genitles? Puhleeze people, tell me you're kidding. For fux sakes, you want to throw away happiness ... that most rare and precious commodity of the most often pathetic and lonely human condition. Oh right! Just run down to the corner store and buy another bottle of happiness. Sorry, seems foolish talk this.

No we aren't kidding. But Calla set up a situation that can't happen for those of us who need a love relationship.

If he didn't love me I wouldn't be happy and I wouldn't be fulfilled.

If he couldn't tell me that he loved me I wouldn't be happy and I wouldn't be fulfilled.

If he couldn't show me that he loved me I wouldn't be happy and I wouldn't be fulfilled.

To me, the question she asked is like "have you stopped beating your wife yet". There isn't a right answer because the question assumes something that isn't true. The question assumes that those of us who need love could be happy and fulfilled without it, but we can't.

We would be leaving a relationship that at best would be marginally comfortable and pleasant but by no means happy or fulfilling.

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Post #: 15

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 1:02:30 PM

TwistedHeart74

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Actions DO speak louder than words, but words are important. In a relationship that I am no longer in, he didn't tell me how he felt. I, in turn, was too afraid to tell him how I felt...I was afraid of rejection. The fault was both of ours. Now we both did things we thought showed the other how we felt, but it proves that communication is VERY important in a relationship.
I realized that I need to hear the words. As for a symbol...I would love to one day wear the collar of my One. As for an engagement or wedding ring...welll....not so much looking for that any time soon.

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RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 1:03:20 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: looking4princess

quote:

You've missed the point completely. Without that aspect, we wouldn't actually be happy. It's like being with a wonderful, loving, attentive man who positively hates kids, won't ever have them and you desperately want to be a mom.

Well, the original premise stipulated Happiness. I think you have changed that by saying, oh i wasn't really happy because of this or that. I don't think i missed the point put fwd by the OP

The OP said would you leave a relationship where you were otherwise happy before finding lasting joy, which I take to mean a long-term relationship. In a long-term relationship, I would not be happy with someone that can't commit on the level I need. Kids, a family, "I love you"s, trips to the beach - some symbol along the lines of a wedding band. It matters to me. It matters a great deal. I need that. For whatever reason I do. So I need to be with someone who needs that too.

Now, for a short-term, fun relationship... sure. Whatever. It's not going to be for the rest of my life. It doesn't need to fill all the important checkboxes because I'm not marrying them.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 9/29/2009 1:04:20 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 1:18:43 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

Would you leave a generally happy, fulfilling relationship just because there -weren't- specific words used by the other person to describe that relationship, even if everything -happening- in the relationship was exactly what you were looking for?

Dame Calla

No. I wouldn't and haven't.

The collar he put on me years ago was a symbol of the type of relationship we moved into, not a symbol of love.

In a decade of knowing him, he's never said he loves me. I don't need that type of thing to feel significant. If he said * I love you*, nothing would change so it's just irrelevant.

agirl

ETA......I forgot to mention that I'm marginally content (wink)

< Message edited by agirl -- 9/29/2009 1:24:50 PM >

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Post #: 18

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 1:55:25 PM

NihilusZero

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It's all so interpretative. Everyone has a slightly different currency that they use to determine if what they're getting in a relationship is "enough" even if the other person is giving just as much but in a different currency.

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Post #: 19

RE: Specific words and symbols - 9/29/2009 1:56:37 PM

NihilusZero

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

No. I wouldn't and haven't.

The collar he put on me years ago was a symbol of the type of relationship we moved into, not a symbol of love.

In a decade of knowing him, he's never said he loves me. I don't need that type of thing to feel significant. If he said * I love you*, nothing would change so it's just irrelevant.

agirl

ETA......I forgot to mention that I'm marginally content (wink)

20 points.

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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Post #: 20

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