Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: emotional transparency


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: emotional transparency Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: emotional transparency - 10/2/2009 8:00:08 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm afraid you'll have to count Me in with the thinking it's a buzz word crowd.  No big surprise here.  I'm in the obedience crowd, too.

To date, I haven't found anything positive in the definition of emotional transparency when applied to a D/s or a M/s dynamic that the term full disclosure doesn't cover.  So far, the only difference that I've found is that it sounds a bit more flowery and romantic.  Not to say that isn't appropriate for those who have dynamics with that particular aim.

To illustrate what I mean by that, I'm going to bounce off of the example that Des used in the above.  Let's say that I give a command that clip has reservations about carrying out due to some negative emotional link that he has with the task.  Under full disclosure, he is to bring that to My attention in a respectful manner so that I will have any pertinent information related to that task.  In My authority, I will make My decision from there.  I may chose to change the task into smaller leaps, but I also may not.  The more important factor of the task may not be clip's comfort level with it or whether or not he is happy about performing it.  However, his obedience is expected.

This doesn't just relate to tasks.  With the situation such as it is, I feel that I have to be ever more vigilant to being aware of clip's mental and emotional state.  I am to be told exactly how he is feeling at any time that I ask or at any time there is something distressing him.  I won't accept anything less and clip is fully aware of it.  Not holding that standard would make things even more difficult than they already are.

But isn't emotional transparency the same thing as full disclosure?  You've more or less said that it is above, only under a more "flowery, romantic" name.  And nowhere in here in the writings of those who support emotional transparency did I see the statement that for them, emotional transparency negates the need for obedience.

I know that you are from the "old school" way of thinking, Lady P and you know that in a lot of instances, especially those surrounding protocol and ritual and courtesy and respect and even use of terms, I agree with you.  But when one term seems to mean the same as the next and those who practice it are still of the obedience school, then I personally don't see a fault with it. 

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: emotional transparency - 10/2/2009 11:08:58 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
But isn't emotional transparency the same thing as full disclosure?  You've more or less said that it is above, only under a more "flowery, romantic" name.  And nowhere in here in the writings of those who support emotional transparency did I see the statement that for them, emotional transparency negates the need for obedience.

I know that you are from the "old school" way of thinking, Lady P and you know that in a lot of instances, especially those surrounding protocol and ritual and courtesy and respect and even use of terms, I agree with you.  But when one term seems to mean the same as the next and those who practice it are still of the obedience school, then I personally don't see a fault with it. 

Which is part of the reason why I'm calling it a buzz word.  See, if I already have a term for it, I don't need another one just because it sounds prettier or implies that it's more in depth in some way.  I'm not running a thesaurus.  I'm running a dynamic.

It's not that I'm against the term in any way.  I'm sure those who are choosing it as a revolutionary term have their reasons for doing so.  As I look at the two at their face value, I see one as based on the emotions of that person on the other side of the kneel and the other as more encompassing.  When I say full, I mean full.  That means emotions, thoughts, circumstances, and facts. 

I thought Des did a wonderful job at showing how emotional transparency and obedience don't always necessarily walk together hand in hand.  Not that I'm implying that she would be disobedient at all.  What works in their dynamic is the understanding that (correct Me if I'm wrong, Des) due to their basis of emotional transparency that there be a level of flexibility if a command is too much for her.  The counter to that is that clip knows there won't be if I have concluded that, in My authority, he will obey.

That may all sound rather harsh, but it really isn't.  My boy knows that I would never intentionally harm him.  I'll hurt him.  I'll push him to his limits.  I'll make him do things that he never thought he was capable of.  There is even a stipulation in there that if he believes he will be harmed, even from Me, he can refuse.  The other part of that is that he'd better be able to show Me what leads him to believe it to be true.  This helps us to avoid the potential emotional manipulation that you described in your earlier post.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: emotional transparency - 10/2/2009 11:56:18 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
But isn't emotional transparency the same thing as full disclosure?  You've more or less said that it is above, only under a more "flowery, romantic" name.  And nowhere in here in the writings of those who support emotional transparency did I see the statement that for them, emotional transparency negates the need for obedience.

I know that you are from the "old school" way of thinking, Lady P and you know that in a lot of instances, especially those surrounding protocol and ritual and courtesy and respect and even use of terms, I agree with you.  But when one term seems to mean the same as the next and those who practice it are still of the obedience school, then I personally don't see a fault with it. 

Which is part of the reason why I'm calling it a buzz word.  See, if I already have a term for it, I don't need another one just because it sounds prettier or implies that it's more in depth in some way.  I'm not running a thesaurus.  I'm running a dynamic.

It's not that I'm against the term in any way.  I'm sure those who are choosing it as a revolutionary term have their reasons for doing so.  As I look at the two at their face value, I see one as based on the emotions of that person on the other side of the kneel and the other as more encompassing.  When I say full, I mean full.  That means emotions, thoughts, circumstances, and facts. 
Then perhaps the difference is in the way we view things.  I see "full disclosure" as dealing with thoughts, circumstances, and facts and "emotional transparency" as the inclusion of the emotions in addition to the thoughts and facts and circumstances as many times, those who deal in full disclosure tend to give you the data surrounding something but not the emotional perspective.  In point of fact though, when I say "emotional transparency", I am not just looking at the emotions but on knowing what is behind those emotions.  Perhaps, as I noted, just two differing approaches. 

quote:

I thought Des did a wonderful job at showing how emotional transparency and obedience don't always necessarily walk together hand in hand.  Not that I'm implying that she would be disobedient at all.  What works in their dynamic is the understanding that (correct Me if I'm wrong, Des) due to their basis of emotional transparency that there be a level of flexibility if a command is too much for her.  The counter to that is that clip knows there won't be if I have concluded that, in My authority, he will obey.
And the counter to des's emotional transparency and your full disclosure is that in knowing the emotions of my submissive regarding a certain act would not necessarily preclude my having her do it anyway.  Other data might...facts that are unknown to me but known to her might stop me having her do something OR the emotions involved might stop my having her do something or negative thoughts might have me stop her from doing something or a combination of any or all of these things might stop me from having her do something but not necessarrily.  It still comes down to my decison as to what is best for the dynamic, for me, for her.

quote:

That may all sound rather harsh, but it really isn't.  My boy knows that I would never intentionally harm him.  I'll hurt him.  I'll push him to his limits.  I'll make him do things that he never thought he was capable of.  There is even a stipulation in there that if he believes he will be harmed, even from Me, he can refuse.  The other part of that is that he'd better be able to show Me what leads him to believe it to be true.  This helps us to avoid the potential emotional manipulation that you described in your earlier post.

In this, we are in complete agreement.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: emotional transparency - 10/2/2009 3:28:10 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

the only difference that I've found is that it sounds a bit more flowery and romantic.


What in god's name sounds flowery and romantic about the phrase "emotional transparancy"?  It sounds rather dry to me, like something one would find in a text book on relationship counseling.  And "full disclosure" sounds like something you'd do in divorce court.  Neither one of the phrases are especially flowery.

You're right in that there isn't much difference between "full disclosure" and "emotional transparancy."  The only difference is that "full disclosure" is a general term that covers what we're talking about when we use the term "emotional transparancy" but it includes other stuff as well.  Emotional transparancy is simply a specific kind of diclosure.

Another general thought, not directed to anyone in particular:  As so often happens, we've gotten bogged down in semantics.  The phrase isn't so important as what we're talking about when we use the phrase.


_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: emotional transparency - 10/2/2009 3:58:03 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I tend to agree that it is semantics.  I merely bring up the romantic aspect as that is something that I'm assuming is a part of the dynamic that you share as opposed to where it doesn't exist in Mine.  Perhaps I'm seeing it as a prettier sounding term than you are.

I am curious to know what is implied in emotional transparency that isn't in full disclosure as I'm using the term.  Maybe there's something I'm missing here.  If I am, I'd appreciate hearing it.

If I'm not, then it's really just another example of where it is just another term which is one where we're reinventing the wheel.  Much like we've done when many of us prefer the term dynamic, rather than relationship. 


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: emotional transparency - 10/2/2009 4:00:55 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Just a few rambling thougths on the topic of Emotional transparency.

I personally see 'Emotional Transparency" as the Sharing/informing of the emotions one is having with another. Which is all well and good... Maybe?!

In truth sharing/informing of the emotions is only providing information.. what one does with that information is entirely a different thing as well as the reasons why one is sharing such information. Also... the manner in which one shares or informs another of those emotions is also highly important in my opinion. I don't particular buy the idea that emotional transparency is another word for honesty... but it is indeed an aspect of honest communication between two people in a relationship about the emotions they are feeling. Another thought... which is likely going to make people cringe.... Not all emotions one feels is justified. I don't buy the stuff of Validating the person's emotions they are feeling. No... sorry girl... it is not acceptable for you to be upset and I am not going to validate it as being OK! To me validating the emotions is saying that it is ok to have it... and I don't agree with it. My girls might have emotions on an issue... and sometimes I will validate the emotions they feel... but other times.... Let it go there is no justification to those feelings!

I am some what of a hard ass I suppose when it comes to emotions. I am not one that will be manipulated because person feels X in fact.... I not likely to empathize if I think the emotions are bullshit. Just becaues I feel X doesn't mean it's acceptable and I get angry etc... and sometimes it's completely and totally BULLSHIT. I have to kick myself in the ass in those occassions... which is no easy task at times ;) I am rather pragmatic about emotions in general and the emotional transparency.. even though very well and good for a relationship (sometimes)... I tend to be more concern about the motivations and actions stemed from those emotions. This whole idea of emotional transparency is of limited value... it's kind of like having a car without the motor to make it go. You need more than just this ET thing for a relationship to thrive... Important as it is... it's only a part of the car not the car!



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to abuddingdom)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: emotional transparency - 10/2/2009 4:15:05 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

I am curious to know what is implied in emotional transparency that isn't in full disclosure as I'm using the term.


As I've indicated in my last posted, there isn't anything implied  in emotional transparancy that isn't in full disclosure.  If anything, less is implied--full disclosure can refer to a lot of things, including things having to do with emotions.  So, full disclosure can involve finances, life history, health, assets, thoughts etc, in addition to feelings and emotions.  Emotional transparancy involves only emotions.  Its a more precise term--full disclosure refers to everything, while emotional transparancy refers to only one thing. And, its a thing I have to work on, so we've singled it out as something we've explicitly negotiated as part of our relationship.

I tell Sir pretty much everything he wants to know and then some.  While we've never talked about it as such, we tend to assume 'full disclosure' and this pretty much works both ways, though he has the right not to tell me stuff but I don't have the right not to tell him stuff.  A couple months ago, he bought a car without telling me and even explicitly kept it a secret; something I would never even think about doing.

Had we thought about it, we might have used the term emotional disclosure, but the word isn't a part of our everyday vocabulary.  I dunno why, but transparancy is something I had heard of as being applied to relationships, whereas disclosure is something I associate with legalistic bureaucratic setting.

Romance isn't really part of our relationship.  We're pretty nuts and bolts.  I don't know why you assumed otherwise.




_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: emotional transparency - 10/2/2009 4:22:11 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

Not all emotions one feels is justified.


Yes!  Emotions are just emotions, one bit of any equation.  I might feel something negative but that doesn't mean its appropriate to the situation.  It could be hormones, it could be baggage from past relationships, it could just be a momentary flux in my brain chemistry or any other number of things.  And, only by getting them out, and talking about them (not necessarily expressing them, or acting on them, mind you) can they be sorted into the justified and unjustified.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: emotional transparency - 10/2/2009 7:08:25 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Good relationship skills are good relationship skills regardless of the type of relationship. 
  Davan


_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: emotional transparency - 10/2/2009 7:13:28 PM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		All I ask is that if you say it, you better fucking mean it.

Unless you're telling me what fantastic lover I am, then you can lie your ass off.

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: emotional transparency - 10/3/2009 10:07:29 AM   
LPslittleclip


Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		being transparent for me has meant not just to my Mistress but to myself as well. for example it was not readily apparent to me why in my marriage i was getting frustrated with my wife. after i started to serve my Mistress with the condolence of my wife i discovered that i crave to please and in my constant desire to please her it was causing her to be unhappy. now that i have a outlet for my desire to please through my service to my Mistress my understanding of myself has improved as has B/both of my dynamics (wife/Mistress) so the transparency is more that just expressing ones feelings but understanding the reasons/causes of them as well to the betterment of the dynamic.

(in reply to Amaros)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: emotional transparency - 10/4/2009 12:28:23 AM   
Falkenstein


Posts: 187
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Emotional transparency is a condition sine qua non for an healthy sub. Otherwise, she is at risk of being hurt by her unknowing dominant.

On the other hand, the dominant does not need to be transparent.

Be seeing you

_____________________________

Henry,

Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

(in reply to abuddingdom)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: emotional transparency - 10/4/2009 3:42:33 AM   
TurboJugend


Posts: 481
Joined: 6/15/2009
Status: offline 		FR

I only need to know what is going on inside her when it starts to effect me. I mean when she is really troubled or bothered.
She is always free to speak about anything.  But no need to tell me all.
I just don't want to feel pressure from her...while she doesn't tell me what is wrong. That is unfair in a relation.


_____________________________

Justme696 on the otherside
- D stands for Damian....not dude

(in reply to Falkenstein)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: emotional transparency - 10/4/2009 7:34:27 AM   
abuddingdom


Posts: 158
Joined: 3/8/2007
Status: offline 		We try to keep it simple and uncomplicated. TurboJugend says: "She is always free to speak about anything. No need to tell me all", and that sums up very much of how we do this. We don't share EVerything, that would be impossible and pretty dysfunctional - to me - even if it was possible. And, it works both ways - I don;t just expect it from her, I've agreed to do it too. Coincidentally there's presently  a need for it in my house- somethng happened to me yesterday which has created some serious turmoil for me. If you asked her she'd likely say that I'm pissed, I'm sad, I'm distracted, maybe she'd come up with other adjectives. When she got home from work I told her about it. It's something I could have easily kept from her and she wouldn't know but she'd be confused as to why I'm being difficult to be around, because I likely would be. So, she knows it's not her, she doesn't have to stress whether she screwed up on her end or if I'm getting sick of her or any kind of shit which can come up inside one's head if they're confused. She can decide how best to handle my reactions because I was straight with her and she knows how I  - feel......Stuff like this comes up for either of us or, being a couple,  even for both of us now and then and I've found that life is so much easier when we're  as transparent as possible to each other. And, life is so much easier in all of the little  day to day stuff when we're transparent to each other. We don't often talk about it - one of us  doesn't announce  " I'm being transparent now" ,(yesterday, for example. I just told her what hapened and where I'm at) and we don't talk feelings to death. Aarrghhh!!  just shoot me now if that was my life. It's really just a simple and  usually uncomplicated thing which we've learned to do. And, it makes life simpler and less complicated in my house. 

(in reply to TurboJugend)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: emotional transparency - 10/4/2009 7:41:35 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I always thought full disclosure was a legal term, and not one that applies to the emotions. Emotional transparency makes it obvious that what is important to talk about are the emotions involved.

There is a difference between clip for Lady P and me for The Man. Clip, although important to her, is not her primary partner. Their relationship is different from the start. I do think that if Lady P was lobbying for something and Mr P make it clear that that something would damage their marriage, that she would rethink it very heavily.

For The Man and I, like leadership and his wife, the relationship is more important than the role. If he decided that what the relationship needed was for the D/s to take a back burner, I have no doubt that he would push me to take the lead more. In fact he does this on some things, in order to improve my self esteem. He regrets it when we rent movies because I prefer indies but he believes it is healthier for me to have my choice in these matters then for him to have his choice. Even though it means we spend a lot more time in Blockbuster because I have trouble choosing knowing he won't enjoy them.

Basically he wants me to be happy to be with him more than he is wedded to any particular act and he is willing to change his decision, or table it until I am able to cope better with it. But I find that when people say they are pushing the sub, they are usually talking about play, not life activities. Since we don't do s & m, that isn't a factor here. He doesn't get off on pain. We go for pure bondage and sex, playwise. Small pinches and other small amounts of pain are to elicit a reaction. He feeds on the energy I put out, not on doing the activity in and of itself.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to TurboJugend)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: emotional transparency - 10/4/2009 9:06:02 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Thank you, Des.  Not only are you correct in everything that you said, it was very well stated.  You're probably right about the term full disclosure, too.  Like a lot of other things, somebody probably took a liking to the phrase and decided it would work well as a description when applied to folks involved in a D/s or M/s relationship.  I'm sure at some point, when full disclosure was the buzz word, somebody popped up and said, why do I need another term to explain that My s type is demanded to be completely honest with Me?  LOL.  So, I guess it works both ways.

No matter which way it is, it seems to work for you, The Man, the OP, and his girl.  I certainly can't argue with that.    

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: emotional transparency - 10/4/2009 10:08:17 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Thanks Lady P. The only other thing I can add is that for us, it also applies to the criteria he uses to make decisions. Meaning the emotional impact on me is one of his top criteria.  And in order for him to know what impact a decision will have, he has to have full knowledge of me emotionally.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: emotional transparency - 10/4/2009 1:39:41 PM   
NormalOutside


Posts: 622
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: abuddingdom

We do it, and I'm glad for it. I've defined it to others, very very simply, as not only  mutual rigorous honesty  but also, when needed , mutually baring and explaining feelings , pro or con, and directly and possibly at times bluntly but  not brutally. I'd like to hear more   about it from folks like us, please, and maybe even be pointed in the direction of some reading material......


I've started this with my new girl, and it's amazing. We're already in a place together that we've never been with anyone before. It's like.... without any secrets between us, we become one person. Nothing to hide, because we are simply "us", not her and I. The D/s bond possible in that situation is INSANELY intense.

Great topic.


_____________________________

I won't see your reply, because I don't use this account anymore.

(in reply to abuddingdom)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: emotional transparency - 10/25/2009 7:42:31 PM   
TheOldMan


Posts: 19
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I am absolutely weary with the weight of us not being able to be who we are when we are. Mmhmm, y
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

.....................


The problem with cookie cutter people, that the mood of the world today seems interested in forcing us all to adhere too,  is that they never quite fit the mold properly

(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 59
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: emotional transparency Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.092