RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....??

RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (Full Version)

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undergroundsea -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 9:51:54 AM)
I agree that you should hold your ground. How much potential he has to be a good sub, I am unsure. Sub frenzy does occur and he might think it is fair game to beg or be persistent. I think if you have told him, or do tell him that the begging is annoying you and he persists, it is not a good sign. I agree with the suggestion to push back (for example, email me two days from now with what times you are available and we'll discuss a time to get together. Do not email me before then) and, if he persists, warn him that you will end communication because his disregard for what you are asking now is a bad sign for the future. Cheers, Sea

Lockit -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 10:04:41 AM)
When someone says they are a good whatever... our goal needs to be seeing where that comes from. If a submissive says he is a good submissive... is he saying it as a confident fact or is he saying it to convince you and/or manipulate you? There is nothing wrong with knowing what you are good at and saying so. There is something wrong in lying about it to other's or yourself. This guy knows he is lying and so do you deep down. So far what he has said in actions proves this. He is pushing for what he wants, not to serve but to get whatever it is he seeks out of it. Is that good? Can it change? LOL... well I am sure with some it could, but I wouldn't be risking my time, emotions or whatever to find out! As long as these guys get away with it, they try again. So far he has tried a number of times. A good submissive, realistic person, frenzie or not, would take your words for what they were. But because he got away with it and you repeatedly told him or had to tell him... he proved himself and you proved he could continue that. (I have made this same mistake, so this isn't a judgement or anything of the like! I had to learn that lesson the hard way... a couple times! lol) If you really want this guy... and want to give it one more go... make it very, very clear that if you must remind him one more time, it will be the last time and he will be blocked from your life in every way. Or you will have to get used to playing the game his way and getting mad at some point because you did. The one's that are being for real with you, will straighten up if they are foolish enough to mess up right off. He isn't respecting your bounderies, rules or way of doing things if he doesn't. Without respect... what good is he or anything that could happen. The way I see most doing things is to say or do whatever it takes to as quickly as they can, get into some play. If they don't get it within a certain time frame... they are gone. They don't like to put too much time, energy or effort into it all. I will typically do something similar to what Sthrn said to see past my own wish that it could happen and see what is really there. If I have played casually and I have a few times, but very rarely, I keep it on my terms and expect nothing but what we are doing and what I would allow in casual, which doesn't typically include sex with me and that is really what most I have experienced wanted. Quickly.

PeonForHer -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 10:28:15 AM)
FR I'm not grasping this. Wouldn't it work just to sit him down and explain to him that, while he may consider himself submissive, he's not submissive enough? Paint a really clear picture of what that means? Get him to write an essay that'll show he understands?

Lockit -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 10:38:34 AM)
I don't see the problem being he isn't submissive enough. I am not sure I like that term at the moment. I see what he is as selfishly seeking what he wants. His purpose seems to be what is in it for him rather than a bigger picture of some sort.

MmeRegineSybille -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 11:08:41 AM)
It is funny this thread........the subject I see so often as issue in My mailbox.... My words in My profile are I think quite clear in how I wish to be served.......I do not email unless it is a compliment not intended to lure but simply to comment on a photo or words they have written........I only take seriously those that initiate contact......yet so funny, they get angry that they cannot manipulate Me. I get emails telling Me how they wish to serve Me.....when I ask them.......how is this serving Me and what do they offer that I want........they say more kink things that I do not want........when I explain to them........THIS, this is all I want from you right now, it is here in writing........if you do not wish to serve Me this way then why do you bother? Then of course they serve Me the other way, My sadistic nature that laughs when I have made them so upset they write one last vitrol filled note then block Me.......so that I cannot scold them.....when all I wished to do was laugh not scold......but that is another subject yes. I have seen that most men, even when they say they are submissive, are not. Most only wish to have their kink served by a Woman and if they cannot get what they want, they get angry and petulant..........striking out at the Woman for simply demanding he follow through as initially discussed/written.

pyroaquatic -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 11:12:16 AM)
Hee... Pleasure to see you around Gypsy! ^_^ You are a very strong, tough, and thoughtful women. How dare a sub try to get 'his' way. I would have taken his nose and not give it back. For at least a month. Distance is a tried and true punishment but in this instance... well... quote: I need to weigh out the consequence of letting a boy come over becuz I "WANT'him which is short term gratification and waiting for a boy who LISTENS AND OBEYS.. I think you got it-you never lost it. it takes time. It takes training, it takes ears and it takes following.

PeonForHer -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 11:26:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit I don't see the problem being he isn't submissive enough. I am not sure I like that term at the moment. I see what he is as selfishly seeking what he wants. His purpose seems to be what is in it for him rather than a bigger picture of some sort. In a sense I don't understand that. I've never really understood it. I thought that if a sub went more submissive, he'd enjoy it more. But I guess that's all very easy for me to say . . . .

AAkasha -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 11:31:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit I don't see the problem being he isn't submissive enough. I am not sure I like that term at the moment. I see what he is as selfishly seeking what he wants. His purpose seems to be what is in it for him rather than a bigger picture of some sort. In a sense I don't understand that. I've never really understood it. I thought that if a sub went more submissive, he'd enjoy it more. But I guess that's all very easy for me to say . . . . There's a huge difference between the desire for submission and the consuming need for immediate attention. HUGE. Akasha

PeonForHer -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 12:01:06 PM)
I see that. But, surely, a man who has such a consuming desire for immediate attention is all the more controllable because of it? Ah. Now I see why the femdom has to play it right, right from the start. A firm grip on the reins, and only later can she relax.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 2:24:33 PM)
Maybe tell him that, to get the attention he craves, he will need to serve You Your way...and if he doesn't agree, he gets NO attention. I wonder what he'd say to that?

GYPSYMAMBO -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 5:35:35 PM)
wow!! I went out to shop and came back to great posts... ty all so much.. I have sent him a message and we will see what happens.. I do feel though..his pushi- ness has pushed me away... I thought of something he said .....this afternnoon as I was looking for a mop... ya a mop..but I have no boy on the end of it a,a.ahhhah[X(] He said " I am used to my looks getting me what I want" ah ha!! BINGO GM

GYPSYMAMBO -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/1/2009 5:40:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Maybe the Gypper should tell the boy, STFU and do as I say, and that is serving me right now!!!!!! Ron good point...!! and also gyp does come from gypsy so my ROM FAMILY do not like me saying gypsy..politacally incorrect..who fukkin cares.ahahahah[:-] GYPSY MAMBO..generous

LadyHibiscus -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/2/2009 8:45:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I see that. But, surely, a man who has such a consuming desire for immediate attention is all the more controllable because of it? Ah. Now I see why the femdom has to play it right, right from the start. A firm grip on the reins, and only later can she relax. I think some other women have made the analogy about teaching? You have to assert your authority from day one, if you are aiming for an authoritarian relationship. If you have a person who is really not inclined to obey, or want to please... even more so. Me, I don't find that kind of person worth my effort. Who wants to have to be endlessly diligent and looking for hidden agendas?

PeonForHer -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/2/2009 8:58:31 AM)
Maybe, Lady Hib. I'm just wondering, though, if the problem is the difference between a rough diamond and one that's been honed. In any case, I do think simple explaining is worth trying. As part of an overall 'teaching strategy', if you like.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/2/2009 9:10:48 AM)
You are right, that it sometimes is just a case of someone who needs to be taught. Thing is, once you've been out in the swamp as long as Gypsy and I, you have that domsense that tells you (usually!) who is a good match and who is a pure waste of time. I am one of those who is perfectly happy to play with a BOTTOM, or someone who just wants to experiment, if he or she is just honest about that from the start. It's when a "player" approaches with the faux-submissive "oh I want to serve you" routine that I get annoyed. Often times, bottoms turn into fabulous submissives, but if they start out by lying about their intentions, or just show that they are so selfish that they will take more work than anything... well, it's better to let them find someone else!

LaTigresse -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/2/2009 9:11:33 AM)
And you know Peon, thinking about your statement and this thread, led me to think that that learning curve might be the biggest road block in this type of dynamic. Because there are SO MANY men that consider themselves submissive but do not have much, if any, actual experience and there is all that unrealistic societal conditioning they have. There are so few female dominants that they usually have the pick of the crop, looking for the one that will take the least amount of work on their part. I think that especially in this medium, it is a pretty tough sell for the guy. All he has to do is screw up once and he has pretty much struck out, to be replaced by a dozen or more other candidates. When the reality is that a lot of these guys might make a pretty good submissive or slave.........after some work and retraining their thought processes. Removing the fears and preconditioned ideals. The things is, the ladies are only seeing a small part of the whole and making a determination on that........thinking......."why would I waste MY time trying to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse if he turns out to never want to be a silk purse at all?" so they keep looking for a ready made silk purse, and the guys that might make fabulous silk purses get lumped into that permanent sow's ear category by sheer dint of numbers. The bummer of it all is........there are some pretty jaded and frustrated people on both sides of the power exchange equation because of it.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/2/2009 9:22:15 AM)
Do you really think it's all cynicism, LaT? Maybe. Sometimes I think I am the pickiest woman in the world. But, isn't that okay? Truly, I think that the notion that there are a dozen candidates to replace Mr X is a crock. There are a dozen guys who might be jumping up and down saying PICK ME, but that doesn't make them a good match, or even interesting! (being boring is the worst of crimes...) I have worked with some men who are utterly new, and some that were very experienced, and honestly, the experienced ones can be more trouble!

ShaktiSama -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/2/2009 10:28:36 AM)
Just a fast reply to the OP: Sounds like this guy is on the very fine line between being seductive and being pushy. If you feel that he is worth the work it will take to train him to your specs? By all means do the work. Relationships require an investment on both side of the fence, and asserting authority is not the same as really exerting authority. You can say "I'm in charge" all day, but you also have to be able to prove it when the chips are down. That means saying "no" sometimes simply to hold the line on a previous decision. If the man is really submissive, one of the things he craves is authority and control. Pushing your boundaries is one of the ways he tests your strength. You can pass or fail this test in a lot of ways--if he really wants to be at the wheel in the relationship and is NOT authentically submissive, exerting real authority will send him packing almost instantly. If he really does want to submit, exerting real authority will arouse him and also make him feel safer and more loved/valued by you. Either way, if you want to be the dominant, you gotta walk the walk as well as talking the talk. The flip side of this is that there is also a very strong need to be seductive and desirable in a lot of submissives. They need to feel sexy and attractive. It's hard to strike a balance between maintaining that desirable seductive quality and learning when No means No, but it can be done, and the results are delicious. [:D] Good luck!

LaTigresse -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/2/2009 11:10:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Do you really think it's all cynicism, LaT? Maybe. Sometimes I think I am the pickiest woman in the world. But, isn't that okay? Truly, I think that the notion that there are a dozen candidates to replace Mr X is a crock. There are a dozen guys who might be jumping up and down saying PICK ME, but that doesn't make them a good match, or even interesting! (being boring is the worst of crimes...) I have worked with some men who are utterly new, and some that were very experienced, and honestly, the experienced ones can be more trouble! Lady Hib........granted I am not the expert on male submissives and slaves. But I do know that, in my time here, there have been a solid handful that IF I was looking for one, and they were nearby or able to become nearby, I would have given them a chance. Something in them, that let me know there was potential there. Some are pretty damned green, I give you that. And most on here have an attitude that would cause me to bypass them without a thought. But that is the case with female submissives also. I guess what I am looking at is that because the supply and demand is different in the female led dynamic than in the male led dynamic, I think that there is a possibility that some potentially dynamite male s types are being over looked because they are simply clueless. If a female s type is strong willed and puts up a resistance, they are a conquest to the male dominant. If a male s type behaved similarly, they are not "truely submissive" or whatever phrase is put to it at the moment and passed over. Granted, there are A LOT of female s types that I think are leading their men around by the dicks and doing a damned fine job of letting the men THINK they are running the show, but that is a whole other thread...... Knowing guys like I do, how rejection affects them and how many men deal with sorrow and other emotions, I think it often helps create the persona of that "not truely submissive". Add to that the perceived mindset and facade that many men feel they are supposed to have.....I can understand their confusion. One thread will tell them they are supposed to be a strong, tough, manly man.......and submit that power to the perfect woman. Yet another thread bashes them for not being subly enough. I am certainly NOT making excuses for all the schmucks that make so many dominant women's lives more challenging.........not at all. I simply think that there are a few rough gems that get lost in all that shit. Add to the confusion of what they are supposed to be, and then the hell they go through with all the fake adds.......sometimes I kind of understand their frustration. Even though it often gets expressed in a very inappropriate manner and usually directed to the wrong people.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: THINKING WITH MY "PEARL"....?? (10/2/2009 11:29:54 AM)
I agree, LaT, there are lots of men here on the boards who seem like they have the goods. I'm not the only one who has been burned by one. So, let's just say that I do understand when Lockit talks about "pretty words"! The stuff you hear on the boards IS confusing, but women get fed the same varieties of pap on their side. For every femdom who wants a pet jarhead (or am I the ONLY one?) there are more who either like to feminize, or want some similar situation. IMO, a person who thinks they want to submit needs to figure out for him or herself what that means on a personal level. While I will provide experiences, help, a willing ear, I do not think it is a dom's job to help a sub "find" themselves when they have NO clue and more importantly NO desire to do any work of their own.

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