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What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 5:24:17 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Ok. I am struggling with this question here ( in the sense that I am not sure that I can get across what exactly I wanted to say and ask ).

Something that DomKen said in another post prompted me to ask my daughter something last night. He made the statement about 'why are you letting a 15 year old make life/death decisions'. Now, granted, this was in regards to the HPV thread that is currently going on; but, it actually got me thinking about it.

Now this is not so much about letting her make life/death decisions; but rather about the unorthodox way that I chose to raise her...I guess...I think...LOL ( I did say I was struggling with this one )

Let me give a bit of background before I actually ask the question that I wanted to ask.

It's no secret that I have raised her on my own since she was three. By choice...not a good one I think sometimes because I basically deprived her of a male influence in her life...but that's beside the point. My upbringing was such that my mother never talked with us girls...I mean about absolutly NOTHING. Not about sex, not about drugs, not about men...about nothing. Everything I learned, I learned from my older sister and from the street gangs that I hung with. I think that because of not having someone talk to me when I was younger; that I have made it a point to always be there to talk with my kids. Openly, honestly, bluntly, without regard to age or subject matter. If they were old enough to ask me the question; they were old enough to receive a very honest answer ( that has been my philosophy ). Because I thought this way; my youngest was 6 when she asked me how babies were made...I told her the truth...in very explicit terms. Over the years, there has not been a single subject that I considered taboo where she was concerned. We have talked about drugs; we have talked about sex; we have talked about diseases from unprotected sex; we have talked about the pro's and con's of marriage...just about any subject that you could think of, we talked about it.

Now, mix in all this with the fact of religion. I am not a religious person. I have not set foot in a church of any kind since her daddy passed away; and I have no desire to ever again. At the age of 10, she wanted to know why. I told her ( not something that I am willing to discuss here ) the truth; after which she decided that she wanted to explore the different religions. Since I was actually born a Southern Baptist; she started with that. ( that sounds bad, I know ). Eventually, she ended up with her daddy's religion which is Catholic. She has faithfully attended church three days a week since the age of 11 and is actually a very spiritual, and religious minded person. She has such a deep faith that she honestly throws me for a loop sometimes.

So, here I have a teenager who is not afraid to discuss any subject openly and honestly; yet is also bound by the dictates of the Bible and the Holy Church. Sometimes, the two collide for her and throw her into confusion because while she believes in what the Church teaches; she also believes in area's that the Church does not agree with ( that's not the issue though )

What I am getting at with all this background is what DomKen said. I mentioned it to her and it started a discussion on the 'proper' way to raise children in this day and age. I know, I know...that's not what I wanted to ask ...(there is no 'proper' way).

During our discussion, she was teasing me and stated 'Mom, you just are not normal is all. Because you are not normal, you did not raise me in the normal way'.

THAT is what is bothering me.

What the fuck is normal when it comes to raising kids?

We all know that every child is different and is raised differently...heck, even siblings are raised differently. But WHAT is considered normal?

This is driving me nuts now. Dayum her.

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 5:29:41 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		1) What is "normal"? Other than statistically, it means nothing in terms of day to day life.
2) She's a kid.

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 5:31:56 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

1) What is "normal"? Other than statistically, it means nothing in terms of day to day life.
2) She's a kid.


LOL that does not help.

I can't believe this is driving me up the wall like it is lol.

Grrrrrrrrr

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 5:48:36 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Hello IM

First I am going to say that I not only disagree with what DomKen said I vehemently do so.
Secondly, as far as I have assertained - normal is assuming that a child or teenager cannot think.  That they don't really feel and that they don't really have any common sense.  Normal is assuming that ALL 15 year olds are at the exact same point in life.  That they do not have any individuality at all.  That they cannot be trusted.

Apparently I am in the same boat as you IM.  I am not 'normal'.  Apparently I am 'cool' (not sure how I feel about that) - but to my childrens friends, this is their truth.  Why?  Apparently I respect them and allow them to have a voice.  Ever been told that by a 14 year old?  It's pretty awesome really (better than being 'cool').  But I really think the biggest thing is trust.  And that isn't their fault, it's adults.  Ah the irony of a BDSM board discussing trust.

the.dark.

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 6:31:56 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		When my son was 10, he told me I was not normal.  But that it was ok because it worked for me.  Like you,IM, I also talked to him openly about what ever came up.  I guess that isn't what most people do, assuming that most people prefer easing their children into life.  My parents didn't talk to me about much of anything.  I used to wonder how someone could talk so much but say so little.  I learned things from countless hours of research, from religion, to antropology, to what ever caught my fancy.  I talked to my son about anything he wanted to explore but mostly I taught him how he could find out about things with a bit of research.  Over my life I have found that if it hurts or is uncomfy people want to avoid it. 


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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 6:37:13 AM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		You did well, raising her.

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 6:54:25 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Irish, I've been told the same exact thing......I am not a "normal" mom. Every time it was said by my children, I've taken it as a compliment.

Like you, in our house, we talked. There were no taboo subjects. If they asked a question, they got an honest answer. Discussing sex, body parts, etc......was never a problem because we always did.

I believe that knowledge is power and I wanted to empower my children. Give them all the information they needed to deal with the shit life throws at them. They didn't, and still don't, always make the best choices. But then again, isn't that part of being human? They do however, tend to learn from their mistakes. Something many seem to struggle with.

I think normal is some vaporous fantasy created by bad television shows and the puritanical, religious, morality, that has been shoved down our throats for centuries. Toss in some bad child psychology, and you have a recipe for some crazy shit someone decided was.......The Way aka normal.

Whatever normal is, apparently I am not it. I embrace that with open arms.


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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 7:07:50 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

During our discussion, she was teasing me and stated 'Mom, you just are not normal is all. Because you are not normal, you did not raise me in the normal way'.

THAT is what is bothering me.

What the fuck is normal when it comes to raising kids?

We all know that every child is different and is raised differently...heck, even siblings are raised differently. But WHAT is considered normal?

This is driving me nuts now. Dayum her.



Ummm - yeah - if you ain't Normal, Irish, then neither am I - cause the way you raised her, is the way I was raised, and the way I raised my spawn until I was no longer allowed to be a factor in their lives.....
 
In all honesty, I've long believed that the term "normal" is something that was designed specifically to emotionally blackmail people into fitting into neat little boxes for the rest of society.  It's not necessarily  a "good" thing or a "productive" thing or even a "helpful" thing - it's simply what the Majority of society expects from us, to comply with how they are, in order for them to feel better about themselves and their choices. 
 
I'm nor "normal" nor would I want to be.  But I am in good company outside the box.

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 7:10:57 AM   
Wolf2Bear


Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist


During our discussion, she was teasing me and stated 'Mom, you just are not normal is all. Because you are not normal, you did not raise me in the normal way'.

THAT is what is bothering me.

What the fuck is normal when it comes to raising kids?

We all know that every child is different and is raised differently...heck, even siblings are raised differently. But WHAT is considered normal?

This is driving me nuts now. Dayum her.


When raising offspring, normal is raising then to the best of your ability, based upon what you think is right/wrong  and giving them the tools to make their own choices when they reach adulthood.


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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 7:33:20 AM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

normal is assuming that a child or teenager cannot think. That they don't really feel and that they don't really have any common sense. Normal is assuming that ALL 15 year olds are at the exact same point in life. That they do not have any individuality at all. That they cannot be trusted.

LOL now, believe it or not, this is something that she believes. That kids now-a-days are not given a chance to have a voice and that they are not trusted...she thinks this is why so many of them head off down the wrong path; they are rebelling to the point that the only thing that matters is being heard...but more importantly...being understood.

quote:

Apparently I am in the same boat as you IM. I am not 'normal'. Apparently I am 'cool'

Well shucks. I want to be cool.
Gonna have to have a talk with her and change this not normal to cool.
*nods*


quote:

Irish, I've been told the same exact thing......I am not a "normal" mom. Every time it was said by my children, I've taken it as a compliment.

LOL actually, I find it kind of amusing. I asked her once why all her friends always congregate here and she told me it was because I was not a normal parent and they felt more relaxed here.
Darn. There's that word again.

quote:

In all honesty, I've long believed that the term "normal" is something that was designed specifically to emotionally blackmail people into fitting into neat little boxes for the rest of society. It's not necessarily a "good" thing or a "productive" thing or even a "helpful" thing - it's simply what the Majority of society expects from us, to comply with how they are, in order for them to feel better about themselves and their choices.

Now this I can readily agree with.

Ok...let's hear it for the -NOT NORMAL-parenting


Seriously, as everyone else said...even though I still don't know what 'normal' is ...I don't think either of us would survive if we were 'normal'...whatever the fuck that is lol.

I am chuckling over this...I really am...trying to figure out what normal is.

Dayum. She does this to me all the time

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 7:41:37 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		...you have given her critical thinking skills.

That is a good thing.   :-)

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 8:43:17 AM   
TurboJugend


Posts: 481
Joined: 6/15/2009
Status: offline
quote:

she was teasing me and stated 'Mom, you just are not normal is all. Because you are not normal, you did not raise me in the normal way'.


as she was teasing..I would see it as a compliment.
Not normal...is often used for different....not bad.
You don't seem to limit her in soem things...while other parents might do that...that is "not normal "in her eyes.

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 8:48:20 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Irish, I've been told the same exact thing......I am not a "normal" mom. Every time it was said by my children, I've taken it as a compliment.

Like you, in our house, we talked. There were no taboo subjects. If they asked a question, they got an honest answer. Discussing sex, body parts, etc......was never a problem because we always did.

I believe that knowledge is power and I wanted to empower my children. Give them all the information they needed to deal with the shit life throws at them. They didn't, and still don't, always make the best choices. But then again, isn't that part of being human? They do however, tend to learn from their mistakes. Something many seem to struggle with.

I think normal is some vaporous fantasy created by bad television shows and the puritanical, religious, morality, that has been shoved down our throats for centuries. Toss in some bad child psychology, and you have a recipe for some crazy shit someone decided was.......The Way aka normal.

Whatever normal is, apparently I am not it. I embrace that with open arms.



Lat,  that comes out in your posts as well.   :-)    (the frank talk)

Something I admire I must say.  

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 8:49:22 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I didn't give him a choice about religion but as far as anything else, if I don't give him all the info, how else is he to learn on his own how to make decisions.

However he announced yesterday he won't take the H1N1 vaccine because it's new. All flu vaccines are new, it's the nature of the beast. I asked him if he was allergic to eggs and when told no, said he didn't have a problem since that's what causes people to get sick.

However, so far he is making stupid decisions. Cut gym yesterday and thinks that won't be a problem when they're picking members of the basketball team. Yes it will.

But I believe in talking to children as though they are adults. If they don't understand they either ask questions or ignore it. But I don't shield them from the realities of life, just change the words so they can understand.

One other thing; in AA there is a saying "You are only as sick as your secrets:. I believe this implicitly. There are no secrets here. There are subjects that make me uncomfortable at which point I acknowledge that and ask for a couple of minutes to think about how to say it. But uncomfortable or not, I still talk about it.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 10/1/2009 9:26:05 AM >

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 8:52:43 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

I don't know how it is over there Irish, but if what I have seen in life around here is normal, I want no part of it. Normal is apparently green or purple hair, doing drugs and having sex too young, possibly coming home knocked up or worse. Normal is the TV and video games as much as possible, and constant entertainment. Normal is letting the schools do all the educating, something they have proven themselves inept at, to say the least. Even in the best schools (St. Ignatius in Cleveland) I have seen the homework and most is too abstractual in nature to have real meaning in real life.

So failing to hold the students' interest, they lose them, they drop out, turn on, tune out and later, much too later have to start to work on fixing the problem for themselves, which they are usually unprepared to do. They and their kids (how old Grandparents used to be) are on welfare and they are struggling to get a GED to prepare for a 'career' in a field that will be so saturated by the time they graduate they will be lucky to make $10 an hour.Then they will have student loans, which they either must pay or forget about ever buying a house. But normal is also living with their Parents until they're about 30. Then their kids start tearing up your shit and you go through it all over again, just for being normal.

So take pride in not being normal, being normal is not all it's cracked up to be.

T

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 9:22:29 AM   
TheGaggingWh0re


Posts: 222
Joined: 1/19/2006
Status: offline 		Is it strange that I consider the way you raised her to be 'normal' by my standards?

Don't fret too much. Labels are thrown around like crazy. I wonder if she meant normal as in 'how other people tell you to raise their kids'. Y'know...run their life, their choices, etc. for their "best interest". You should ask her! I'm actually curious myself and in such an open relationship I'm sure she'll answer your question.

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 9:23:29 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Hey now-  my hair is not green and it is  scented lavender wigwam jubilee!!!   NOT PURPLE!   foot stomp!\

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 9:28:57 AM   
SteelofUtah


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Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Have you thoutht to ask her what normal means?

She is the one who defined Normal for her in this situation.

Steel

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 9:41:08 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

...What the fuck is normal when it comes to raising kids?...


if normal is the socially accepted form that the majority adheres to going on in our society today, it's something that this slave physically/mentally/emotionally/spiritually couldn't do.
 
after the oldest one overcame her period of teenage angst, she counselled the two after her to "accept the fact that mom is not a normal mom, and you will have a lot less to get over/be angry about".
 
this slave wasn't raised by "normal" parents either...

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RE: What is Normal? - 10/1/2009 10:02:43 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		hey Irish

Normal is whatever works for you and your kids. my son often tells me i am his mother when i have to be, his friend when he needs one, someone he can expect an honest answer out of when he asks... and the only person who has demanded he develope a brain of his own.

his friends tell him im not normal either... and they were always at my house... go figure!

nothing was taboo to talk about, sex ed started at 5 when he asked what a condom was at a gas station. we donated time at charities and soup kitchens so he could see the other side of life. homeschooled, he was expected to excel and always reach for more.

what i am seeing among parents like us is the refusal to allow these kids to use the system to their advantage. they are being taught how to think, act, react... and plan. may sound simple, but its far more than what we were taught growing up.

sounds like she is proud of you. keep up the good work.

and, just to let you know, if it wasnt for his heart Dr demanding my son get the flu shot, he wouldnt have either. with him, there is too much of a risk for him not to get it.

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