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Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 1:48:46 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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Status: offline 		Before anyone can accuse me of it, I will admit that in '04, I was a firm beliver in ABB, Anybody But Bush. I couldn't see a single candidate in the democratic party that I wouldn't have voted for before W. That being admited, I'm kind of curious. Who's in the ABO, Anybody But Obama, camp? For those on the right: Is there anyone on the scene now that the republican party could nominate who you wouldn't vote for in '12 in preference to Obama? And just for the hell of it, for the left, is there anyone the republicans could put up who you would take a good, hard look at as possibly getting your vote?

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 2:06:53 PM   
Mercnbeth


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Status: offline 		You want some irony Spinner? When this question was posed four years ago - I named an unknown junior Senator from Chicago who I thought gave a GREAT speech! Wonder if I can find that post?

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 2:23:53 PM   
Kirata


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Status: offline 		Well, I'm not really with the ABO crowd. I'd have to say that I incline more toward the AALAIRP camp. Anybody As Long As It's Ron Paul.

K.

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 2:25:37 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Well, I'm not really with the ABO crowd. I'd have to say that I incline more toward the AALAIRP camp. Anybody As Long As It's Ron Paul.

K.


Strangely enough, if Paul made it to the nominee level, I'd have to give him a good listen before I decided...but is there anyone in the GOP you can say you, at this moment, wouldn't vote for over Obama?

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 2:26:59 PM   
BeingChewsie


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Status: offline 		I asked my owner because he votes and is very conservative. He said yes, if the republicans were to nominate an evangelical or someone so far right they are about to fall off, he'd vote for someone else. There are kooks on the right he wouldn't support.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Before anyone can accuse me of it, I will admit that in '04, I was a firm beliver in ABB, Anybody But Bush. I couldn't see a single candidate in the democratic party that I wouldn't have voted for before W. That being admited, I'm kind of curious. Who's in the ABO, Anybody But Obama, camp? For those on the right: Is there anyone on the scene now that the republican party could nominate who you wouldn't vote for in '12 in preference to Obama? And just for the hell of it, for the left, is there anyone the republicans could put up who you would take a good, hard look at as possibly getting your vote?




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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 2:48:37 PM   
AnimusRex


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Status: offline 		I guess I would pose the same question as I do on other political blogs-
Forget about who would carry your battle flag-
What ideas or policies would he/ she carry out?
What exactly does Obama do/ not do that you want to see done?
Balanced budget- important or no?
Greater/ Lesser military spending?
Greater/ Lesser domestic spending?
Universal Health Care?
Resolution of the Israeli/ Palistinian conflict?
Greater/ Lesser military involvement abroad?


Most of the heat over Obama strikes me as personal, and the politics of identity, not ideas. Read most of the blogs and you see a tremendous amount of snarky sacasm, (and I do my share) but really very little discussion of competing ideas.
The questions above are the sort that , long ago, would form the basis of a political platform, a base of a worldview that shaped and informed decision-making.
Instead of ideas-based arguments, most of the debate today is identity based- Palin wears Carhartt jackets and hunts (blue collar, white); Obama wears suits and eats arugula (educated, ethnic).

So regardless of whether it is Palin, Jindal, Huckabee or whoever, I would be more interested in hearing what they would actually do differently on the issues above.

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 3:01:15 PM   
popeye1250


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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 3:11:21 PM   
Sanity


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Seriously, I'm starting to wonder if Bush didn't push more of a liberal agenda through than what Obama might ever accomplish. There was a vast expansion of government under Bush, while Obama is meeting impossibly stiff resistance and getting absolutely nothing done because he's trying to do too much too fast.

If another McCain runs vs. Obama, I might hold my nose and vote for Obama because a McCain-type would easily move the ball a long way in the wrong direction just like Bush did, while if Obama is re-elected he would likely continue to accomplish nothing.

And it seems like Obama's ideas on foreign policy are little different than McCain's or Bush's... I'd have to continue to make fun of Obama of course... its too much fun (and too darned easy) not to. 







< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/1/2009 3:25:27 PM >

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 3:12:22 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

is there anyone in the GOP you can say you, at this moment, wouldn't vote for over Obama?

In case you haven't gathered, I'm not really going along with the partisan cut here, or the simplistic notion that "Right" equals "Republican". More directly to the point of your question, I am not a GOP loyalist who would be inclined to prefer any Republican over Obama in the first place, let alone any Republican except whoever. I just don't think in those terms. I doubt I've ever even used the words "Republican" or "Democrat" in a post before.

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/1/2009 3:23:05 PM >

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 3:29:28 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		I've been keeping an eye on who is gearing up for 2012 runs and the GOP has a sad and sorry lot

The best of the bunch:
Mitt Romney (unfortunately cannot ever win the nomination due to his religion)

The clueless who for some reason think we're really that dumb:
Newt Gingrich
Sarah Palin
Bobby Jindal
Mike Huckabee

The required moderate for the talk radio guys to call a RINO:
Tim Pawlenty

The dark horse for whom a byproduct of anal sex is named:
Rick Santorum (this charmer is doing a series of speaking engagements to conservative groups in Iowa this fall which means he's at least thinking about running *shudder*)

Running as usual and pulling in his usual 0.1% of the vote
Ron Paul

None of those guys can both win the GOP nomination and win the general election. Although for sheer lulz I'd love to watch news anchors interview Dan Savage throughout the fall of 2012 but the GOP wouldn't actually nominate Rick "frothy mixture" would they?

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 3:37:43 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Yeah it's NBO for 2012 it is looking like to me, Pawlenty couldn't swat flies efffectively and the rest of the slate is the rest of the slate.



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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 4:13:50 PM   
maybemaybenot


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Status: offline 		Good Topic, SoT !  

I put myself in the ALWD camp. < any Libertarian will do>

I am neither Rep or Dem, so there are individuals on on both sides I  may vote for Obama over. Palin, Boxer, Pelosi, Frank are the top four. Having said that, I voted for Barr in the last election since I could not in good conscience have voted for McCain or Obama. It was a throw away vote, but one I could live with. I hope not to have to do that again.

I heard an interesting discussion on TalkRadio < watches SoT shudder at the thought, lol> today, discussing the possibility of Hiliary defeating Obama in the 2012 primary, if she had the estrogenical fortitude to undertake that task. It was more of a hypothetical, but very interesting. I might vote for her over Obama.  But I am holding out hope for Romney.

                                                mbmbn



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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 5:35:59 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

The best of the bunch:
Mitt Romney (unfortunately cannot ever win the nomination due to his religion)
I am curious why Romney being a Mormon would make him unelectable while Huckabee being a fundamentalist born-again type wouldn't make him so?

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 5:42:58 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

I am curious why Romney being a Mormon would make him unelectable while Huckabee being a fundamentalist born-again type wouldn't make him so?
ORIGINAL: Arpig




Partly because the fundies view mormons as a fringe splinter cult and not really Christian. They'd put every dollar and vote against him in any primary and without the religious right wing, at this point in time, the GOP loses one of it's strongest constituencies.


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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 5:48:40 PM   
Sanity


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It seems like if someone who attended a church such as Trinity for twenty years can be elected president, practically anyone from any religious background can.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
I am curious why Romney being a Mormon would make him unelectable while Huckabee being a fundamentalist born-again type wouldn't make him so?


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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 6:01:39 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

The best of the bunch:
Mitt Romney (unfortunately cannot ever win the nomination due to his religion)
I am curious why Romney being a Mormon would make him unelectable while Huckabee being a fundamentalist born-again type wouldn't make him so?

Southern Baptists, the church tradition I grew up in, and, I assume, most of the rest of the evangelical movement reject mormonism as not part of christianity.

If you take a look at Romney's showings in the 2008 primaries you will see his support was almost completely outside of the deep south which is fundamentally the core of the GOP now. He can't win the party nomination.

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 6:09:26 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

The best of the bunch:
Mitt Romney (unfortunately cannot ever win the nomination due to his religion)
I am curious why Romney being a Mormon would make him unelectable while Huckabee being a fundamentalist born-again type wouldn't make him so?



That's a damn good question, Arpig, especially when we factor in that the United States elected a black guy in the last election....  I'm not sure where DomKen figures he is qualified to announce "the best of the bunch" for Republican contenders anyway.

Directly to the OP, anything is possible.  Life does throw changes at us.  I could wind up supporting a second Obama term under some circumstances (I might have to get that tatto of a winged pig on my butt, though).  Much more likely, if he is still awful, and the Repubs put up somebody I cannot possibly bring myself to support, I'll work the local races and issues, and write-in a nice cartoon character for President.

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 6:46:44 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
For those on the right: Is there anyone on the scene now that the republican party could nominate who you wouldn't vote for in '12 in preference to Obama?


I can't think of any GOP member of note who I would abandon in support of Obama in 2012. That includes Sarah Palin, John McCain (if he ran again), George W Bush (if they hurry up and amend the Constitution) and Richard Nixon (if they dig him up and hurry up and amend the Constitution).

For what it's worth before election day I felt Obama was the lesser of the two evils between himself and Hillary Clinton. I was relieved when he defeated her for the nomination. Now we have seen him in action and like many folks I've since changed my mind on that one. If she ran again in 2012 I'd vote her over Obama and if the GOP candidate I liked most was either way ahead or way behind on Super Tuesday she'd get my support that day but not on election day.

I now await Jimmy Carter's critique of my post.




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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 7:11:18 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Sarah Palins new book is already a best seller on the NYT and Amazon lists,and it isn't even in print yet. Do not count her out. The left is scared to death just thinking about her.

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RE: Is is ABO? - 10/1/2009 7:51:53 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Sarah Palins new book is already a best seller on the NYT and Amazon lists,and it isn't even in print yet. Do not count her out. The left is scared to death just thinking about her.
ORIGINAL: servantforuse



Everybody with an IQ above room temperature is scared to death just thinking about her.


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