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Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 5:58:51 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		The subject of Romney's being a Mormon came up in Spinner's AOB thread, and made me wonder this, but rather then derail the other thread, I figured I'd start a new one.

Why is a politician's religion such a big deal in the US? Here in Canada we have elected a fundamentalist creationist as Prime Minister, and his religion was hardly an issue during the election (granted the Liberals tried to make it an issue, but it was soundly ignored by the public). In the US there was a big stink about Kennedy being a Catholic, and one of the reasons against Leiberman being on any ticket was that he is Jewish, Romney is unelectable because he's a Mormon, Obama was accused of being a Muslim....it goes on and on.

Our PM has not tried to make his religious views part of the law, nor has he appointed only other creationists, not has he pushed the ultra-Christian agenda. He has done what he was elected to do...run the country according to his party's platform. We have had 9 Catholics, 4 Anglicans, 3 Presbyterians, 3 Baptists, 2 United Church adherents, and 1 member of the Christian and Missionary Alliance (that would be our present fellow) as Prime Minister.  Quite a mix.

Myself I would be perfectly happy to have a Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, pagan, or atheist as Prime Minister. A politician's religion has never been an issue to me, and it has never been much of an issue to the country as a whole, why is it such a big deal in the US?


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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 6:34:59 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		It's a big deal to many because one's religion is what decides their morals and values most times and so one person's morals and values are going to be very different from another's if they are from different religions.

So if you have a country full of christians it's going to be highly unlikely they will want to elect someone whose faith is that of a satanist. The satanist will be incompatible with the majority and what they want for their country.

It's not much different than when two people start dating. Two people who are radically different faiths aren't going to have a lot in common.

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 6:56:52 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		I suppose that might be the so in a case of an extreme like that (i.e a Satanist in a Christian country), but with very few exceptions pretty much all religions have compatible morals and values, especially within the various Christian denominations...yet this is still an issue for some reason. Surely a catholic has essentially similar morals and values as a baptist, yet Kennedy's Catholicism was viewed by many as detrimental. And what about Mormons, they have essentially compatible morals and values don't they? So do Jews and Muslims, yet for some reason the very idea of a Jewish or Muslim President is viewed as nearly impossible...how come?

And further to the point...why is it that this issue of morals and values is only an issue in the US, not anywhere else...we don't care up here, nor do they seem to in the UK, or France, or Russia, or Germany...so to quote Pink Floyd " Wots ... Uh The Deal?"


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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 7:00:37 PM   
DomImus


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Status: offline 		A candidate's religion has never been a big deal to me but I am not a religious man. Many people are so it's a big deal to them. We all have our litmus tests. One of mine has two sixteen shot clips and is sitting about four feet from me as I type.

I know Obama is not a Muslim but if you can't figure on your own out why a candidate who is a Muslim would be poorly received here in the US then my explanation won't be of any help.




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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 7:46:32 PM   
Ialdabaoth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I suppose that might be the so in a case of an extreme like that (i.e a Satanist in a Christian country), but with very few exceptions pretty much all religions have compatible morals and values, especially within the various Christian denominations...yet this is still an issue for some reason. Surely a catholic has essentially similar morals and values as a baptist, yet Kennedy's Catholicism was viewed by many as detrimental. And what about Mormons, they have essentially compatible morals and values don't they? So do Jews and Muslims, yet for some reason the very idea of a Jewish or Muslim President is viewed as nearly impossible...how come?


I'm going to actually answer this question, which is typically the last thing anyone actually wants. But here goes:

Faith determines your morality, not religion. And you're right - most people have the same basic morality, because they have the same basic faith: they have faith in the idea of a benevolent God that wants them to be good to each other. So far so good.

The thing is, religion rides on top of faith, and tells you when to ignore that morality. Religion tells you things like "yeah, I know God said don't kill people, but now I'm telling you God wants you to stone this man to death because he's a faggot." Or, "yeah, I know God said to love your neighbor, but now I'm telling you God wants you to burn this woman to death because she's a witch." Or my personal favorite: "God wants you to go kill as many of these people over here as possible, until one of them kills you, to prove that God is on our side and not theirs."

That is why religion is important - because it tells you which humans to listen to when it's time to ignore God.

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 8:05:25 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Status: offline 		The more deeply religious someone claims to be, the less I trust them, so I would never vote for a fundamentalist from any religion. For any office. I consider religious fundamentalism to be a mental illness, and i prefer that nutcases be kept as far as possible from any position of power, to whatever extent it's possible.

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 8:16:03 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		Suffice it to say that while the Mormons espouse the same values as conventional Christians, their theology is VERY different.  They claim that different worlds have different Gods above them, which runs counter to monotheism.  They also claim that Jesus was married with three wives.

Not to mention that the Mormon church is growing very fast and poses a threat to conventional Christians through force of numbers.


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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 8:22:51 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		I was a kid when Kennedy was elected, but it was a big deal because he was the first Catholic to be elected President.

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 8:25:17 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I was a kid when Kennedy was elected, but it was a big deal because he was the first Catholic to be elected President.


Funny, it's been almost 50 years since and we have yet to elect the second Catholic President.  Even though every single President since has been an avowed Christian.


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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 8:28:58 PM   
Ialdabaoth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Suffice it to say that while the Mormons espouse the same values as conventional Christians, their theology is VERY different.  They claim that different worlds have different Gods above them, which runs counter to monotheism.  They also claim that Jesus was married with three wives.

Not to mention that the Mormon church is growing very fast and poses a threat to conventional Christians through force of numbers.


True, but none of that should matter when it comes to enacting or enforcing laws.


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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 8:30:45 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Kennedy was a Catholic, but he certainly wasn't a saint.

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 8:33:17 PM   
Ialdabaoth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Kennedy was a Catholic, but he certainly wasn't a saint.


I don't follow what you mean?

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 8:39:17 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

pretty much all religions have compatible morals and values, especially within the various Christian denominations...


Not true.

Abortion: Catholics are extremely anti. Methodists feel while all life is sacred, if a mother's life is in danger then abortion may be used to save her life.

Divorce: Catholicism-divorce is impossible unless anullment which means the marriage never existed. Protestants feel there are situations in which it is necessary.

Environmental concerns: Hindus feel no authority over animals/nature. Judaism are taught man has dominion over animals/nature.

Just to name a few things. The list could go on about the differences in morals and values. They're varied and numerous and is what divides us here in America. People stand by the morals and values of the religion of which they grew up with and it is a part of who they are. They can't just turn it off and on or not let it color how they choose to run the country. The decisions they make are partial to their religious beliefs.

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 8:39:44 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

It's a big deal to many because one's religion is what decides their morals and values most times and so one person's morals and values are going to be very different from another's if they are from different religions.


No. It's a big deal because people mistakenly believe that statement is true.

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 8:46:25 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

The more deeply religious someone claims to be, the less I trust them, so I would never vote for a fundamentalist from any religion. For any office. I consider religious fundamentalism to be a mental illness, and i prefer that nutcases be kept as far as possible from any position of power, to whatever extent it's possible.
Well now, we have a fundamentalist Christian PM now, he's in his second mandate now, and he's doing a pretty decent job. Like I said he hasn't tried to do anything bizarre like replace evolution with creation science in the classrooms yet, nor has he tried to reinstate the death penalty, in fact he's done nothing to further a religious agenda whatsoever. This is why i wonder why it makes any difference, the man's job is to govern for the betterment of the entire country, according to the general expressed will of the electorate, within the mandate provided by his party's platform. And that's just what he does. Is there any reason to believe it would be any different in the US?



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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 8:49:11 PM   
Ialdabaoth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
Well now, we have a fundamentalist Christian PM now, he's in his second mandate now, and he's doing a pretty decent job. Like I said he hasn't tried to do anything bizarre like replace evolution with creation science in the classrooms yet, nor has he tried to reinstate the death penalty, in fact he's done nothing to further a religious agenda whatsoever. This is why i wonder why it makes any difference, the man's job is to govern for the betterment of the entire country, according to the general expressed will of the electorate, within the mandate provided by his party's platform. And that's just what he does. Is there any reason to believe it would be any different in the US?


Because the US is filled with paranoid conspiracy theorists.

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 9:23:03 PM   
HatesParisHilton


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Status: offline 		"Why does a politician's religion matter? "

Like, if they are a Republican, what ELSE do they got?

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 10:04:38 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		I think religion should be kept totally out of politics. Also Democrats and Republicans should be too.

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 10:14:31 PM   
Ialdabaoth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I think religion should be kept totally out of politics. Also Democrats and Republicans should be too.


Well, the only people that could make that happen would be the Democrats and the Republicans, so guess what?

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RE: Why does a politician's religion matter? - 10/1/2009 10:16:28 PM   
HatesParisHilton


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Status: offline 		The world is happy to be one big Saturday Morning Cartoon.  Especially parts of the world making $$ off advertising for heinous shit like "BRatzz" dolls.

Mormon theology IS such a cartoon, and a fun one, as proven on South Park.

Admittedly it's Gold Key Comics cartooning, versus Scientology (which is Image Comics), but still, hey, at least Mormons know to run a show like Scooby Doo with invisible Goldne Tablets of Covenants and yet STILL they balance their checkbooks with aplomb and success year after year, decade after decade.

I think the anti-Mormon angle is pure JEALOSY, frankly, from redneck baptist based broke-ass Boofheads.  They have only ONE wife and they often can't even feed HER.

Ever see a Mormon-harim wife who looked like she came from Bergen Belsen?  NO.  Does the Mormon wife, unlike the shitkicker wife, ever have to choose between the electricity bill, clean clothing water and detergent , or food for/feeding the kids?  NO.

America could do FAR WORSE than having a Mormon Bigamist President.

They could have ANOTHER failure-at-his-daddy's-oil-business-coke snorting-alcoholic who only cleaned up his act because his wife basically told him his dick would go into early retirement if he DID NOT cut the crap.

< Message edited by HatesParisHilton -- 10/1/2009 10:19:49 PM >

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