Where is the economy? (Full Version)

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gift4mistress -> Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 12:01:52 AM)

I am confused. About 2 months ago people were saying that the economy is improving and production has increased. However, there are report after report of job losses, businesses losing money, and the stock market seems to be more stagnant than anything else.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/US-Sept-non-farm-payrolls-decline-jobless-rate-up/articleshow/5082273.cms

This article here is saying how there is really no confidence in economy right now. Know one is hiring and unemployment increased to 9.8 percent. There was one economist that says the worst is over however business are speculative as to how "sustainable" the current economic situation is. In other words, people are suspecting no growth or more of an economic drop.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/indicators/Oil-declines-below-70-on-weak-US-jobs-data/articleshow/5082160.cms

The link mentioned some disturbing things. For instance, "Crude has about doubled in price since February... At the same time, some of the stimulus from such government programs as the Cash for Clunkers auto rebate and the $8,000 credit for new home buyers is starting to wind down." And, "employers cut a worse-than-expected 263,000 jobs."

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Global-economic-cooperation-could-falter/articleshow/5082011.cms

This article is saying that "business may return to usual." Or, that we may end up doing the same things again that lead to the economic crisis of 2008.

As it stands, where is the economy?



Ialdabaoth -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 12:05:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gift4mistress
As it stands, where is the economy?


Right where Cheney and Rumsfield wanted it to be: Stalled out at the hands of a Democrat.



tazzygirl -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 3:41:15 AM)

"The Labor Department said the unemployment rate was the highest since June 1983 and payrolls had now dropped for 21 consecutive months."

",,,,a recession which began in December 2007."

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/US-Sept-non-farm-payrolls-decline-jobless-rate-up/articleshow/5082273.cms



Ialdabaoth -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 3:43:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

"The Labor Department said the unemployment rate was the highest since June 1983 and payrolls had now dropped for 21 consecutive months."

",,,,a recession which began in December 2007."

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/US-Sept-non-farm-payrolls-decline-jobless-rate-up/articleshow/5082273.cms


Yep. Kissinger and Ford did the same thing to Carter.

(edit: Mixed up my Presidents)



Acer49 -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 4:29:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gift4mistress

I am confused. About 2 months ago people were saying that the economy is improving and production has increased. However, there are report after report of job losses, businesses losing money, and the stock market seems to be more stagnant than anything else.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/US-Sept-non-farm-payrolls-decline-jobless-rate-up/articleshow/5082273.cms

This article here is saying how there is really no confidence in economy right now. Know one is hiring and unemployment increased to 9.8 percent. There was one economist that says the worst is over however business are speculative as to how "sustainable" the current economic situation is. In other words, people are suspecting no growth or more of an economic drop.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/indicators/Oil-declines-below-70-on-weak-US-jobs-data/articleshow/5082160.cms

The link mentioned some disturbing things. For instance, "Crude has about doubled in price since February... At the same time, some of the stimulus from such government programs as the Cash for Clunkers auto rebate and the $8,000 credit for new home buyers is starting to wind down." And, "employers cut a worse-than-expected 263,000 jobs."

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Global-economic-cooperation-could-falter/articleshow/5082011.cms

This article is saying that "business may return to usual." Or, that we may end up doing the same things again that lead to the economic crisis of 2008.

As it stands, where is the economy?


It is still in the toliet, nothing has changed



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 5:24:25 AM)

~FR~

As much as you may hate to hear it, the economy is pretty much in the best case scenario possible at the moment given the situation from which it came. We managed (whether by the most efficient means or not) to avoid a global banking meltdown that would have plunged the world into a depression of the kind not seen since the Great Depression. We are faced with high unemployment, a sluggish recovery and a long road to walk before things get back to anything approaching good. It is naive to think that any economic policy could have, within a year, sorted out what was nearly a catastrophic economic event and bring us back to a period of prosperity.

The answer to this question is: The economy is by no means healthy, but has become more stable. That is an important start.




Musicmystery -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 7:34:49 AM)

The economy has already recovered. We are in positive growth. Slow, yes, but growth.

Increased employment typically lags when emerging from a recession (i.e., "jobless recovery") until growth continues and extra labor is clearly indicated.

In the meantime, I just keep cashing my checks, watching my expenses, invest in long term projects and buy stocks and bonds at low prices.

And when good times are strong again, I won't act like they will never end.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 7:53:11 AM)

There are no investors investing in this market. The temporary uptick in the stock market was primarily in the financial sector caused by the government buying most of the bad debt and cleaning up the balance sheets; which in turn increased the value, which in turn raised the value of the stock. That condition is now over.

Banks may be giving lip service to lending, but have set lending criteria making loans difficult, if not impossible, to qualify for; especially for those who need them.

The auto stimulus at the corporate end failed - Saturn didn't find a buyer and is closing; more than likely taking Spring Hill Tennessee with them. The retail trick; "cash for clunkers" sold existing inventory which isn't being replaced. There are no car buyers. Every projection on financial that I've read from my investments is calling for layoffs, cutbacks, consolidation, and contraction.

"Cap & Trade" is such as bad idea that Kerry and Boxer decided to change the name of the Bill The bill's sponsors also sought to change the legislative lingo surrounding the bill, dropping references to "cap and trade." Instead, Boxer and Kerry released a summary of their bill that labeled greenhouse gas trading provisions as a "Pollution Reduction and Investment" program.

The "Clean Energy Jobs and American Power Act," comes in at 821 pages, starting with a mandate by 2020 to curb the nation's greenhouse gas emissions by 20 percent from 2005 levels. It omits many details,

It doesn't change the fundamental reality of practically eliminating the possibility of any industry expansion with this Sword of Damocles hanging over their head.

All of which drives unemployment. Those numbers speak for themselves. The tale they don't tell is the downward spiral they create. Less unemployment, less government revenue generated. Less revenue and the government needs to increase taxes to raise more. At the same time, the increased unemployed need more government services, with fewer people paying into the tax system.
quote:

The economy is by no means healthy, but has become more stable.


How? Where? Why?



mnottertail -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 7:57:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

There are no investors investing in this market. The temporary uptick in the stock market was primarily in the financial sector caused by the government buying most of the bad debt and cleaning up the balance sheets; which in turn increased the value, which in turn raised the value of the stock. That condition is now over.



Well, there are plenty of investors in the market, everyone with a 401(k), and the government bought no bad debt unless it bankrupted and sold the companies out. The balance sheets of most banks were 'cleaned' by a change in rules so the 'toxic assets' could be valued at ridiculous values....pretty much what they were 'worth' in the bubble, and not what 'actual' value is, which was what the rule was before.

Ron



Kirata -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 8:25:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

As much as you may hate to hear it, the economy is pretty much in the best case scenario possible at the moment given the situation from which it came.

Bullshit.

Wall Street is making money again in essentially the same ways that thrust the banking system into chaos last fall

K.







pahunkboy -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 9:57:04 AM)

Gold and silver is the BUY of a lifetime!

That is my post.

Go for it- you can tip me later when you get rich. 
Well- you wont get rich- but silver and food- are priced the same ratio in real numbers... so only buy it if you plan to eat....

-glunkkkkkkkkkkkk!!



NormalOutside -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 10:02:14 AM)

Silver for me, thanks :)

The economy is..... well, what economy? The fucked up system we have in place is designed to make us ALL slaves, in a very real way. We'll never escape it. Hell, most of us aren't even AWARE of it.



MrRodgers -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 2:16:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

As much as you may hate to hear it, the economy is pretty much in the best case scenario possible at the moment given the situation from which it came.

Bullshit.

Wall Street is making money again in essentially the same ways that thrust the banking system into chaos last fall

K.

What...what, did we expect anything different from these bonus bitches ?

This is c a p i t a l i s m  kinkroids and they are here to make some fucking money...nothing else matters.

Why does anyone think we don't get a public health care option ?

What do you suppose it is that we have 'single-payer' 'govt. run'  health insurance for banks and pensions and investors ?

Why are we throwing $20 billion at about 700,000 'eligible' farmers.

It's because 'we' are here for some fucking money and pretty much don't give a damn how we go about getting it...Capiche ?

OH and THE capitalist...he doesn't give a damn about jobs...what are 'jobs.' He doesn't create any jobs but a few menial positions to cover his ass...so what the fuck.

The bankers, corporatist and investors are ALWAYS trying to get rid of 'jobs' here, doesn't create any here...and only moves what he has to some fascists, creating the modern slave labor.



pahunkboy -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 2:32:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

Silver for me, thanks :)

The economy is..... well, what economy? The fucked up system we have in place is designed to make us ALL slaves, in a very real way. We'll never escape it. Hell, most of us aren't even AWARE of it.



COOL!

...there is hope after all...



DarkSteven -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 3:03:53 PM)

What IS the economy?

If you're looking for it as being an employer, forget it.  Unemployment is at an alltime high.

If you're looking for inflation, it's not too bad.  Inflation is in check.

If you're looking at it in light of the stock market, it's not exactly sick.  It's... not really well, though.





Musicmystery -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 3:08:24 PM)

quote:

There are no investors investing in this market.


Bullshit.

Stocks and bonds are still changing hands. The exchanges are open and populated. Smart investors, like Warren Buffet, have invested heavily.

I know I'm buying every week, just as I usually do.



pyroaquatic -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 3:09:44 PM)

The Economy.

Economical.

Efficient. Making things efficient.

Working hard to be lazy.

Does this make sensE? I think not.

What is the Economy? A transference of energy from one phase/state to another.

In this light, Economy can never fail. Long after we blow ourselves to smithereens economy in the ecosystem will still remain. In my opinion there needs to be a redesign/redraft/redefinition of the entire way we govern ourselves.

Throw out the old system which worked well for farmers without the ability for mass communication and start fresh with the advents of new technologies and beliefs of today.

I don't want dead people ruling me.

I want me ruling me.

(okay okay, besides a lady.)



SeekingAZ -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 3:11:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: gift4mistress
As it stands, where is the economy?


Right where Cheney and Rumsfield wanted it to be: Stalled out at the hands of a Democrat.


Yup, Obama is a Cheney and Rumsfeld lackey. As soon as the architect called him on the bat phone he went right out and doubled the deficit as commanded in less than 100 days in office. Obama is part of the right wing conspiracy and you voted for him, haha :P



Ialdabaoth -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 3:50:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingAZ
Yup, Obama is a Cheney and Rumsfeld lackey. As soon as the architect called him on the bat phone he went right out and doubled the deficit as commanded in less than 100 days in office. Obama is part of the right wing conspiracy and you voted for him, haha :P


...huh?



Mercnbeth -> RE: Where is the economy? (10/3/2009 4:27:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

There are no investors investing in this market.

Bullshit.

Stocks and bonds are still changing hands. The exchanges are open and populated. Smart investors, like Warren Buffet, have invested heavily.

I know I'm buying every week, just as I usually do.
"Investors" as in investing in a business, a new idea, a building project; those investments are what drive the economy. I'm not referring to penny stocks or even wall street.



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