The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive

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OttersSwim -> The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 9:29:58 AM)
In the "Thinking with my 'Pearl' topic, Miss ShaktiSama wrote the following line that got me thinking: quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama ... The flip side of this is that there is also a very strong need to be seductive and desirable in a lot of submissives. They need to feel sexy and attractive. ... I certainly identify with this sentiment. And I admit that it was strange to me when I discovered submission to realize that feeling "sexy and desirable" were part of what I very much wanted. Most of us are familiar with the female submissive projection of "sexy and attractive". We have seen them at clubs or events. They are there, in skimpy dresses or skirts in every color of the rainbow, with stockings and heels, they exude sexuality and the message is clear - Desire Me... They are open and accessible emotionally, they smile and laugh and socialize with each other. They are sexually objectified in that environment and most of them revel in it. The male submissive on the other hand faces a quite different concept of that. For the most part, there is little outward projection of sexuality. We mostly are there in the standard issue -male submissive outfit- of jeans, a black t-shirt, and black boots. The only thing that would keep us from the lobby of a McDonalds or a nice hotel is the collar or chains most will display around the neck. We are usually emotionally stoic, wrapped in our masculinity as we sit at our Lady's feet. In my experience, we don't interact with each other very much, and I don't often see male submissives smile. I don't mean to say that we are as a group unhappy, but I don't generally see that expression of "sexy and attractive", nor any message of "desire me"...or maybe that is the message - I am masculine, stoic, look pretty much just like every other male submissive in here - Desire Me...??? Without doubt, there is a certain amount of sexual objectification involved in F/m D/s. Without doubt, females are socialized to endure, if not enjoy sexual objectification...but it is my experience that generally males are not. And so I wonder that we males are perhaps uncomfortable with the whole concept? As a male submissive, do you indeed feel like you want to be sexy and attractive? If so, how does that express itself in you? Is that something for public or private expression? What is your experience of being objectified as a sexual being? Do you want it? How does it make you feel? And for you Ladies...what is your concept of "sexy and attractive" from a male submissive. Do you desire to sexually objectify a male? If so, then what does that mean to you? What turns you on about it? When we are all sitting there at your feet in our black Ts in mostly stoic silence...is that what you all want of us? Do you find that sexy?

dickkitty -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 9:40:10 AM)
I don't think women really lust after men in quite that way.... I'm not even sure how one would accomplish that general feeling ether, maybe go all abercrombie ad?, I don't want to throw this in but I have a feeling anything like this is going to come off as a gay, Not your goal but it certainly would add to your objectification. I think that's just too many social no no's and such for men women have somewhat freed there selves from a good bit of bonds clothing wise..... one of the good reasons I am what i am the added options of expression.....

OttersSwim -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 9:53:37 AM)
So my experience has been, like so much in my life, very much a perceptive "duality". I am a girlie boy after all. [;)] My Lady certainly enjoys sexual objectification and she has imposed it on me in many ways. As I see things from both a "gurl" perspective and a male perspective, my journey into sexual objectification has mirrored that duality. In my mind, I am both a "female submissive" and a "male submissive" and I have had both experiences. I have been in the clubs and at events, sitting there on the floor in my black T and jeans with my collar on. Feeling very much in my stoic male role. Observing other male subs behaving the exact same way. In those times, there is a sense in me that I am possibly sexy as an expression of the "male being" - strong, masculine, emotionally stoic, focused on my Lady. I wonder if that "focus" is not what makes me sexy in that role to Her? And if that is also a factor for Ladies in general? I have also, after a fashion, been a female submissive in public too. I have been there in my colorful skimpy outfit of skirt and heels, feeling very open and totally sexy and attractive. I have observed female submissives and felt that kinship in their behavior and openness when I met their eyes - that total outward expression of sex and attraction. This female experience that I have had has, I think, really opened me up to the whole concept of sexual objectification. I "get it" because I have experienced it in a positive way through my girlie side. I think that if I did not have that female perspective, my male socialization would make me feel very uncomfortable at the concept of being somehow reduced to a toy or plaything for someone else's sexual enjoyment. I recognize this in me and wonder if other male subs feel the same way...

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 10:53:21 AM)
I don't know if it's objectification to enjoy parading about in skimpy sexy clothing, or that they do it to make people desire them, but I know for me, it's fun, I don't normally dress up I am very plain, and so going to these events, gives me a good reason to dress up in the things that are not really street clothing appropriate:) And yeah I do enjoy when others look at me and say or think or feel sexy thoughts, as long as they're not creepy about it.

aidan -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 11:00:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dickkitty I don't think women really lust after men in quite that way.... Hmmm, no, I belong to a Domme who defiantly feels lust for men in such a way. Which makes sense, sense Her post is what started this thread! The thing is feeling "sexy and attractive" is a very subjective state. I'm a submissve, a masochist and an exhibitionist. For me feeling sexy and attractive quite often involved feeling vulnerable and desired in a predatory or aggressive fashion. I specifically cultivated a coquettish, oh-please-don't-hurt-me-tee-hee "little boy" persona which hit the mark with a lot of Dommes. Mistress enjoys it as well, but feeling sexy and attractive with her also, and more importantly I think, comes from being allowed and invited to be sexy and seductive. She certainly is assertive and predatory at times, but other times I am the one who will be...not predatory, but certainly assertive. I can initialize and coax sexual activity because I know She enjoys and desires it. I guess with us the core of being sexy and attractive, for me at least, is the feeling of safety I have with Her. I am not afraid of being rebuked or chastised for letting sexual energy flow naturally. Which is not to say we always have sex wheneve and however I want; She's still the Dominant partner and She either chooses take control of he situation I start or saying that no, now isn't the time. But I don't ever feel like I've been gross or rude or domineering for expressing the fact that I desire Her. That makes me feel very sexy. As for clothing, well, I never really gave a flying fuck whether or not I looked "gay". The sort of unofficial uniform that Otter describes has always bored me to death. I've had a pair of black leather short-shorts that've been my go-to piece of fetish wear since I was 17 and never once worried about such things. I think the way I carry myself, the focus of my attentions and the general aura or vibe I give off has always cut through any questions of my sexual tendencies. I like to wear them because they make me feel like prey, which again is sexy. I feel like difficult and tricky prey, but pery none the less. It's a sense of vulnerability and exhibition that really revs my engine.

LadyNTrainer -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 11:20:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim The male submissive on the other hand faces a quite different concept of that. For the most part, there is little outward projection of sexuality. [....] I don't generally see that expression of "sexy and attractive", nor any message of "desire me"...or maybe that is the message - I am masculine, stoic, look pretty much just like every other male submissive in here - Desire Me...??? [.....] And so I wonder that we males are perhaps uncomfortable with the whole concept? And in a nutshell, this is why I do not feel desire for the vast majority of men. They are not natively comfortable with the concept of displaying themselves as a potentially desirable sex object, so we never do connect on that level. Aidan, the demeanor you describe would most likely get an instant predatory response from me. I personally prefer the archetype of "prey animal" to "little boy", but otherwise you're spot-on. Since I know you are owned, I would refrain from doing anything other than looking, and complimenting your owner on a good catch however. She's lucky to have someone who actually knows how to be desirable.

LadyNTrainer -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 11:21:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dickkitty I don't think women really lust after men in quite that way.... Bull-hooey. I think you've been exposed to too many sex-negative stereotypes about dominant women.

Reform -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 11:42:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim And for you Ladies...what is your concept of "sexy and attractive" from a male submissive. Do you desire to sexually objectify a male? If so, then what does that mean to you? What turns you on about it? When we are all sitting there at your feet in our black Ts in mostly stoic silence...is that what you all want of us? Do you find that sexy? Sexy and attractive is seeing my boy be a man. When he gets out the hammer to nail something, when he picks me up to carry me someplace, when he's doing all those pushups I make him do... muscles and boy sweat Mmmm. When I sexually objectify him it's usually as simple as telling him he can't cum and using him for my pleasure only. He's an object I use, nothing more. And when he's at my feet, that's when I love him most. Seeing his blue eyes looking up at me knowing that he's waiting and wondering what I'm thinking and what my next move will be, knowing that I have more patience than him and he'll be squirming soon enough... all these things play into why a male sub can be so hot. You're right, men don't have the same sort of ways to be sexy that women do, however I'd argue that men are sexy in different ways than women. This doesn't lessen the sexiness, despite if you as a male sub don't feel sexy when I think you are. quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim I have been in the clubs and at events, sitting there on the floor in my black T and jeans with my collar on. Feeling very much in my stoic male role. Observing other male subs behaving the exact same way. In those times, there is a sense in me that I am possibly sexy as an expression of the "male being" - strong, masculine, emotionally stoic, focused on my Lady. I wonder if that "focus" is not what makes me sexy in that role to Her? And if that is also a factor for Ladies in general? Spot on. I totally agree with the observation you made here. Having a boy at my feet waiting for instruction is very sexy. He doesn't even need to do anything, I can gaze at him forever when he's on his knees. I think it has a lot to do with potential, at least for me. This kneeling figure has the ptoential to be doing anything (anything!) I want him to. That is sexy, right there.

SthrnCom4t -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 12:00:23 PM)
For me, sexy is less about clothes, and more about demeanor. I can and do appreciate eye candy. I did make an attempt to put Otter in biker boots, tight fitting jeans, and a black t-shirt. Why? Cause he is damn hot in them! But it's more than the clothes. He is loving and attentive with me, always. He gets this blushy, head-lowering smile when I graze his nipple. For me, he is the epitome of "prey". Aidan said " She certainly is assertive and predatory at times, but other times I am the one who will be...not predatory, but certainly assertive. I can initialize and coax sexual activity because I know She enjoys and desires it." Otter is like this also, and yes, it completely trips my trigger! He can elicit the Domme side, even if that wasn't necessarily my mind set at the time. Interestingly, I don't see Otter as more or less attractive when he is expressing his girlie side. However, I do see a huge change in him, which comes from within. He feels more free and open and sexy, and so, as a loving Partner, I desire him to be happy and fulfilled. He is My prey, no matter what he wears, or what time of day. On another note, I do not feel this toward the majority of men. There has to be a certain click/connection between us. If the submissive (male or female) doesn't exude the prey energy first, I'll likely keep looking. "Prey energy" - how to define it? Lack of guile? Naivete? Uncritical? Honest? Open? Desirous or hungry of invasion (of personal space or physical intimacy) without 'take energy'? I'm sure others on here can be more articulate about this than I can. Thoughts?

aidan -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 12:09:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer Aidan, the demeanor you describe would most likely get an instant predatory response from me. I personally prefer the archetype of "prey animal" to "little boy", but otherwise you're spot-on. Since I know you are owned, I would refrain from doing anything other than looking, and complimenting your owner on a good catch however. She's lucky to have someone who actually knows how to be desirable. Well thank you, Lady N. Being an exhibitionist it's still nice to receive compliments and show off a little. Mistress is very proud of Her prized toy. Being Her boykin, the object of Her lust and affection, is my greatest joy in life. ^__^

KYsissy -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 12:16:18 PM)
quote: I don't think women really lust after men in quite that way.... Oh yes they do! At least all the women I know. You should hear 'em talk. Makes the construction site sound like a tea room.

ShaktiSama -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 12:19:41 PM)
Fast reply to an interesting thread with many good responses: Women most certainly DO desire men who are pret-tay in the eye candy sense of the word. What constitutes "eye candy" differs from woman to woman, but there is a reason that the males here who front their profiles with photos of a well-toned, physically fit and stripped-bare male body get PLENTY of attention from femme dommes. So do the men who lead their profiles with a pretty face and a nice smile, for that matter, or who have profiles that show them being well-groomed and well-dressed. Most straight men of ANY orientation do not know how to display themselves to be sexually magnetic. They don't know how to dress to look their best, how to develop a personal style. They don't know how to cut their hair to look their best--this is often true even of men who otherwise take very good care of their bodies. But this is about a lack of adequate social training for them to be good exhibitionists--not about women's desires. Any woman who has ever been with a good-looking man, dom sub or vanilla, can tell you the little rush of pleasure she gets from seeing how good he looks in a well-cut suit. Or even the right casual clothes that hang off him or grip his yummy bits "just so". Women are socially trained not to be bold with eye contact and "looking", which is why so few of them become great photographers or cinematographers, especially of erotic subjects. Personally I've overcome all those hurdles, and as a straight-up voyeur I enjoy men's bodies and their sexuality without any obstacles. My photo sessions sometimes produce very beautiful and sexy results, and this is as much about my attitude and the need that straight men have to be "looked at" as anything else. My personal experiences over many years tell me that all men want to be looked at, and looked at with desire--they want this in general, but especially from the right woman. The only reason that they hide behind bland, body-concealing clothes and bland Stoic fake personas is that the fear of being censured and considered unmanly/uncool is just a tad stronger than the desire to be noticed and wanted. It's a pity.

aidan -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 12:38:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama Women are socially trained not to be bold with eye contact and "looking", which is why so few of them become great photographers or cinematographers, especially of erotic subjects. Personally I've overcome all those hurdles, and as a straight-up voyeur I enjoy men's bodies and their sexuality without any obstacles. My photo sessions sometimes produce very beautiful and sexy results, and this is as much about my attitude and the need that straight men have to be "looked at" as anything else. And boy am I ever glad that You did. Few things feel as yummy and wonderful as being under Mistress' desirous gaze. The photo session which my profile pic comes from was one of the hottest experiences ever. [:D]

dickkitty -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 1:40:36 PM)
in private yes women do desire and they surely do talk about it as well, I was meaning more outwardly, I also forgot this was a ask a Mistress forum as i just saw it in the scroll by which should definitely make them a bit more aggressive then the norm. Then again i don't really know any female dominants so.

LadyNTrainer -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 2:51:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama My photo sessions sometimes produce very beautiful and sexy results, and this is as much about my attitude and the need that straight men have to be "looked at" as anything else. Yummy. Would you be willing to share? [:)]

LadyHibiscus -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 2:59:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dickkitty I don't think women really lust after men in quite that way.... Really? Wow, so me and my friends are secretly.... guys? [>:]

pyroaquatic -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 3:00:00 PM)
As a male submissive I definitely feel the need to feel sexy, alluring, attractive, wanted, and needed and in more ways than one. I do not think I have ever done the wait at the ladies feet things (unless ordered). Maybe cuddle in the lap or sit next to her and interject my own views on things.... or be a total goofball. Whatever comes first. The thing about being wanted.... it makes other people want to possess you. To take you and own you. Which could lead to tension I guess (but people will get over it for I am Her property. Ask HER). And when I get in those heels, skirt attire, woo. It gets even worse. This girlie man thing. It opens doors and sometimes I do not want them open but they are there regardless. When I have gotten into a pack of submissive males that I am comfortable with I tend to be very talkative. Chatty, usually about games, or theories or ideas. Create a relaxing environment and all of that. Drama llamas are outright ignored and so I will shut my mouth. That is about the only time I am stoic. ---- Then you get to parts of me that are like... "Can I go play? Can I go play!! PLAY PLAY PLAY PLAY!!!" "NO SHUT UP SIT DOWN." [8\|] AH maybe that is why I must be stoic. I am annoying otherwise. [:D] Kudos once again Delectable Otter. Kudos.

Wheldrake -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 3:18:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim As a male submissive, do you indeed feel like you want to be sexy and attractive? If so, how does that express itself in you? Is that something for public or private expression? What is your experience of being objectified as a sexual being? Do you want it? How does it make you feel? Really interesting topic, Otter, as usual. I've never felt sexy or attractive in a physical sense, which is probably not surprising considering that I'm a pudgy, balding academic. On the other hand, I certainly enjoy feeling desired, so I try to be appealing on levels other than the physical. I don't usually sit around in a state of brooding stoicism - with the right people, I can be very relaxed, open and even playful about my submissive sexuality. I expose my soft underbelly and invite the predators to dig in. Accordingly, even though I don't do very well as eye candy, for some people I seem to make a passable object of dominance and sadism. Being desired on any level is something I associate with submissiveness and surrender in any case - it's just the way I'm wired. quote: ]ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama My personal experiences over many years tell me that all men want to be looked at, and looked at with desire--they want this in general, but especially from the right woman. The only reason that they hide behind bland, body-concealing clothes and bland Stoic fake personas is that the fear of being censured and considered unmanly/uncool is just a tad stronger than the desire to be noticed and wanted. It's a pity. All men? With due respect, this is one of those sweeping generalisations that sort of sets my teeth on edge. I suppose being looked at with desire would be sort of nice, but engaging intellectually and emotionally with other people (rather than physically and visually) really is a lot more important to me. I do go around in bland, body-concealing clothes, but I don't think I have too much of a bland Stoic fake persona. I'm sure this makes me come across as dull and unappealing to people who are more focused on the visual, but one can't have everything. Perhaps I could learn to make myself physically attractive, but I suspect it would take a lot of work, and I'd much rather cultivate other sides of myself instead. I guess I'm not really doing my bit to keep the world interesting from a photographer's perspective, but I can only apologise.

pyroaquatic -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 3:38:46 PM)
Perhaps she was trying to get your ManGoat, Wheldrake. Sweeping Generalizations are good for eliciting responses such as... "HEY I'M NOT THAT WAY" :D

hardbodysub -> RE: The Sexual Objectification of the Male Submissive (10/3/2009 6:31:24 PM)
quote: And in a nutshell, this is why I do not feel desire for the vast majority of men. They are not natively comfortable with the concept of displaying themselves as a potentially desirable sex object ... Wow, your "vast majority of men" is from a whole different universe than virtually all the men I know.

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