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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/3/2009 5:11:48 PM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Have you ever read the Oz stories? Baum himself states in the intro to the first one that "the story of "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" was written solely to please children of today. It aspires to being a modernized fairy tale, in which the wonderment and joy are retained and the heartaches and nightmares are left out. "  http://www.gutenberg.org/files/55/55-h/55-h.htm

Beyond this, you obviously have never done any creative writing. Things written to convey an agenda, such as you suggest are always dead and soulless. I refer you to the writings of Communist literature which are dreadful. And since the Oz books are still loved by children today, they cannot in any sense be considered dead and dreadful.

Not everything has a hidden meaning. As Freud himself said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

However I do appreciate your accidental mistake in spelling wizard with two zees. One of my favorite authors has a character who is referred to in this way, Pratchett's Rincewind.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 10/3/2009 5:13:39 PM >

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/3/2009 9:15:54 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		It's an allegory for the free coinage of silver---one of several populist pamphlets on the subject at the time.

They wanted one ounce (Oz) of gold to equal 16 ounces of silver. Dorothy's slippers were originally silver as she travelled the gold bullion road to the Emerald City (home of the greenbacks), where a wizard was smoke, mirrors, and travelled via hot air.

A whirlwind election throws out wealthy East coast industrialists (Wicked Witch of the East), bringing the common people to power. Dorothy travels with a farmer, an industrial worker, and a cowardly politician. The crippling drought (Wicked Witch of the West) is killed with water (this is pre-irrigation projects). Support for silver was strong in the South, and you need Northern states like Ohio and New York to win elections (the Good Witches).

Free coinage would inflate the currency, essentially taking money from the rich and providing opportunity to the lower classes.

It didn't work, despite all the promotion. Congress passed the Gold Standard Act in 1901.

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/3/2009 10:45:49 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Status: offline 		The sole purpose of the "Wizard of Oz" was to someday inspire Pink Floyd to make "Dark Side Of The Moon." 

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/3/2009 10:55:56 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		FR

I really hate to rain on the parade here but here is how it is.

OZ stands for Old Zealand, commonly referred to now as Austrailia.

In the story it merely represented a place that was very far away, about as far away as you can get. You got to admit it is pretty damnfar from Kansas.

T

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 4:51:39 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Beyond this, you obviously have never done any creative writing. Things written to convey an agenda, such as you suggest are always dead and soulless. I refer you to the writings of Communist literature which are dreadful. And since the Oz books are still loved by children today, they cannot in any sense be considered dead and dreadful.

Not always: We (Eugene Zamiatin), 1984 and Animal Farm (George Orwell), The Island Of Doctor Moreau (HG Wells), Frankenstein's Children (David Mace), Walpurgisnacht (Gustave Meyrink) and The Sound Of His Horn (Sarban) were all written to grind ideological axes, and are more than a little wonderful.
(Now Ayn Rand or Sax Rohmer, sadly, your argument definitely does apply to...)

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 5:15:00 AM   
purepleasure


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Status: offline 		Here's a possibility of what the Wizard of Oz was really meant to be.

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 5:17:12 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		It means that (albeit thanks to the films) I have two excellent and timeless voice impersonations I can perform with startling accuracy should the opportunity arise
- the wicked witch of the west (which makes small children cry LOL!)
- the little guys where Dorothy lands, whose name quite escapes me (which makes small children (and cats) stare)

Yes folks, this is the height of talent indeed

E

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 6:47:54 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: purepleasure

Here's a possibility of what the Wizard of Oz was really meant to be.


That was GREAT!!!   TY

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 7:16:58 AM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Not always: We (Eugene Zamiatin), 1984 and Animal Farm (George Orwell), The Island Of Doctor Moreau (HG Wells), Frankenstein's Children (David Mace), Walpurgisnacht (Gustave Meyrink) and The Sound Of His Horn (Sarban) were all written to grind ideological axes, and are more than a little wonderful.
(Now Ayn Rand or Sax Rohmer, sadly, your argument definitely does apply to...)


A little wonderful? Animal Farm survives solely as a book assigned by schools. Dr Moreau was creaky and unreadable back when I encountered it, and that's a good 40 years ago.

Agree with Ayn Rand but oddly enough Sax Rohmer although morally reprehensible is readable. The pure mystery of how things were accomplished and how to solve it works. And I've yet to read anything that says he sat down with an agenda and plotted it out ahead of time to teach a moral. He was a writer with prejudices who naturally enough used his prejudices in his writings which is different then writing something deliberately to have one thing stand for another.

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 7:22:38 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Ya know- (thinking out loud)

Maybe the wizzard could also be a drug dealer.   

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 7:40:03 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Not always: We (Eugene Zamiatin), 1984 and Animal Farm (George Orwell), The Island Of Doctor Moreau (HG Wells), Frankenstein's Children (David Mace), Walpurgisnacht (Gustave Meyrink) and The Sound Of His Horn (Sarban) were all written to grind ideological axes, and are more than a little wonderful.
(Now Ayn Rand or Sax Rohmer, sadly, your argument definitely does apply to...)


A little wonderful? Animal Farm survives solely as a book assigned by schools. Dr Moreau was creaky and unreadable back when I encountered it, and that's a good 40 years ago.

Agree with Ayn Rand but oddly enough Sax Rohmer although morally reprehensible is readable. The pure mystery of how things were accomplished and how to solve it works. And I've yet to read anything that says he sat down with an agenda and plotted it out ahead of time to teach a moral. He was a writer with prejudices who naturally enough used his prejudices in his writings which is different then writing something deliberately to have one thing stand for another.

I think we'll have to agree to differ on Animal Farm and Doctor Moreau: for my money the latter is one of the best horror novels ever published, and the Victorian fustiness heightens its atmosphere rather than doing it any harm. As for the other, it survives more through it's damning portrayal of the Russian revolution's failure than anything else. That's why it's still taught in schools.
You're right that Rohmer isn't really germane, though. As you say there's a difference between writing something informed by the author's prejudices (HP Lovecraft did an awful lot of this as well) and writing an allegory to push an argument.

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 7:47:46 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		It's a snuff film.

Jimmie Stewart.

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 7:52:23 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

I really hate to rain on the parade here but here is how it is.

OZ stands for Old Zealand, commonly referred to now as Austrailia.

In the story it merely represented a place that was very far away, about as far away as you can get. You got to admit it is pretty damnfar from Kansas.

T


Read the rest of his Oz stories (yes, all you scholars, he wrote several).

They take on social issues one at a time.

Nor are they "hidden meanings." They're damn blatant.

The man was a Populist. Deal with it.

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 8:05:09 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-ZULpr8m5o   worth a peak... the trailor to the film in the 50s.

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 11:31:56 AM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Sometimes a cigar is merely a cigar.


Indeed.

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 11:34:59 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Read the rest of his Oz stories (yes, all you scholars, he wrote several).

They take on social issues one at a time.

Nor are they "hidden meanings." They're damn blatant.

The man was a Populist. Deal with it.

There was a massive fuss over the transsexual one when that was first published, wasn't there?

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 12:48:26 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Yeah...lots of transsexuals at the turn of the 20th century.

Don't forget the ones about the dancing/singing cats.

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 2:28:08 PM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

It means that (albeit thanks to the films) I have two excellent and timeless voice impersonations I can perform with startling accuracy should the opportunity arise
- the wicked witch of the west (which makes small children cry LOL!)
- the little guys where Dorothy lands, whose name quite escapes me (which makes small children (and cats) stare)

Yes folks, this is the height of talent indeed

E


That would be "munchkins"?  lol    But when it came to the height of talent, the munchkins fell short......

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 2:31:20 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yeah...lots of transsexuals at the turn of the 20th century.

Don't forget the ones about the dancing/singing cats.

I forget the title, but I know there's one of them which has an adolescent boy as the protagonist, who turns into a girl once he gets to Oz. (Somebody, Princess of Oz?) A few people didn't think that had a very healthy subtext for the kids.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Wizzard of OZ- what does it MEAN? - 10/4/2009 3:59:26 PM   
slaveluci


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Animal Farm survives solely as a book assigned by schools.

If so, what a sick, sad shame that is. It should be assigned by schools as everyone should read and understand it but, hopefully, that's not the only readings it gets............luci

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