RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility?

RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (Full Version)

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HatesParisHilton -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/5/2009 10:22:28 PM)
so, Iald, lemme ask you this: on a comic book payment system, you would most liklely earn - at most, starting out - $12 per hour on any given project, paid UPON COMPLETION, not per hour (which allows PSEUDO artists and pseudo creatives to rort the system). would such a pay-rate be enough for you, yes or no? like the kids here in Oz that won't take that rate, they'd rather stay on the fucking DOLE. and do part time barrista bullshit. (moments like these make me LAUGH at creative dominant implying I am a lefty partisan when, RE "art" and media, which FUELS the Right, I am most likely 100 the hard-ass bastard creative dominant is)

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/5/2009 10:26:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton so, Iald, lemme ask you this: on a comic book payment system, you would most liklely earn - at most, starting out - $12 per hour on any given project, paid UPON COMPLETION, not per hour (which allows PSEUDO artists and pseudo creatives to rort the system). would such a pay-rate be enough for you, yes or no? like the kids here in Oz that won't take that rate, they'd rather stay on the fucking DOLE. and do part time barrista bullshit. If I believed that I could honorably complete the terms of my contract? Absolutely. But I'd be very hesitant of entering into any contract that might have another person depending on my reliability. I'm not keen on disappointing people, especially when there's money and livelihoods on the line. And to be honest? I've never been on the dole. I'm slowly starving to death, and I've barely got any suitable clothes, but I'm not taking up anyone else's precious resources to do so.

HatesParisHilton -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/5/2009 10:40:29 PM)
"If I believed that I could honorably complete the terms of my contract? Absolutely. But I'd be very hesitant of entering into any contract that might have another person depending on my reliability. I'm not keen on disappointing people, especially when there's money and livelihoods on the line. And to be honest? I've never been on the dole. I'm slowly starving to death, and I've barely got any suitable clothes, but I'm not taking up anyone else's precious resources to do so." I never said YOU did, but MANY if not MOST "wannabe creatives" here in Oz do fall in that category. You are not a product of Oz, so this is no slam upon you nor anyone from YOUR country. The problem with what you posted above is something ALL creatives have to face , bi-polar or not: the aspect of DEADLINE. ALL comics that yield a WAGE or LIVING involve DEADLINES. same with animation, same with most music clips, and in most cases,apparel (e.g. t-shirts). your bi-polar disorder, RE payment in art fields, means NOTHING. The question is, fairly, are you holding out for a "paid by the hour" gig wit bennies and holidays and sick leave? those do not really exist in art at entry level anymore.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/5/2009 10:43:42 PM)
Nah. I'm not really "holding out" for anything, at this point. If society thinks I'm worth keeping around, it'll keep me around. If it doesn't, it'll let me starve. That's not really my call to make, you know?

HatesParisHilton -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/5/2009 10:53:26 PM)
oh, I know, and it is EXACTLY your call to make. I was a freelancer for MANY years, had to deal with my OWN shit day in, day out and STILL get the pages in on time or not get paid or get BLACKLISTED. The bottom line is, as with comic books, are you willing to work HARD for minimum wage with NO WAY to "rort" things, no way to get paid for anything aside from final product, or not? that's it. That's why comics and their system has worked since 1939 and has not changed much at all up to today (and that's the system that paid Neil Gaiman, Len Wein, Mike Grell, Frank Miller and Grant Morrison, and Denny O'Neil, all of whom I have either hung out with or illustrated for, btw, and the work of whom, at least ONE of these gentelemen, you either have in your possession or have paid to see a film derived from their work). so it's good enough for YOU TOO.

Lorr47 -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/6/2009 12:15:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Have it your way. The situation is hopeless, with absolutely no chance of ever solving it. No chances of self-employment either, I'm certain. Completely lost cause. Enjoy. Heh. It's always been a wry amusement to see how people react to depression. Any time I try to make a valid point, it's "Oh, you're just depressed! That's just the depression talking!" Any time I give up, it's "Get off your ass! You aren't sick, you're just lazy! Fine then, you DESERVE to fail!" ... I can deal with people talking out both sides of their mouth, I just really wish I knew which side was full of shit. Bi polar is impossible to manage without medical treatment. The malignant tumor the size of a large softball on my wrist is hard to manage without medical treatment. However, many do not want to discuss intelligently the need for affordable medical treatment. Hang in there.

MarsBonfire -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/6/2009 6:30:26 PM)
In my own opinion (and I can just tell you guys are just hinging on my every word here) is that a second "great depression" simply won't begin to cover it. Eventually, maybe by 2020, probably sooner, one of these middle east extremist groups will get their shit-stained hands on a tactical nuke, and will find a way to send it into an American city either in a rental van, or inside one of the hundreds of unchecked cargo containers that arrive on our shores daily. After we lose an American city... in all likelihood either D.C. or NYC... there will be a collapse of both the economy, and the social order. With just a couple planes lowed into the WTC's towers, we came within inches of becoming a defacto dictatorship. What do you suppose will happen to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" after we have 250,000 + dead, and god knows how many American hubakisa wandering the streets? It'll be up to the individual states to keep law and order as our government tries to pull itself back together. It could be decades, if ever, before we re-established our economy, and our Constitutional principals. I've kind of felt this was coming long before 9/11, and a lot of experts seem to feel the same way. (Robert Heinlien was a strong proponent of personal preparedness, and he's someone who's opinion I've always considered worthwhile.) It's not a matter of IF this will happen, but WHEN. Because of this belief, (among others) my wife and I moved to Arkansas. I've learned to hunt deer, and we've just had our second successful garden since getting here. I got a backup generator that will run on old, filtered cooking oil, and the land I have has enough trees on it to keep the house warm for decades. Even if the nuke scenario doesn't come to pass, there are a hundred other reasons to prepare: anything from another ice storm like the one we had here in 2001, to economic collapse, to an epidemic, to war, to the unthinkable. There's a great program that summed up this probability (nuclear terrorisim) that has been playing on NAT GEO recently, called "The Day After Disaster." See if you can catch it sometime.

UncleNasty -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/6/2009 7:02:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery People may have to [shudder] start buying homes and cars they can afford, instead of what they wish for. Everyone here who has lost one or both did so because they were overextended. Truth is, the loans should never have been made, and those people wouldn't have been upside down. People learning the difference between a want and a need wouldn't be such a bad thing either. What I DON'T see is any of those neighbors standing in bread lines or selling apples on the corner. They did, however, have to scale down to meet reality--kicking and screaming, perhaps, but back to reality. If all this means people learn to pay as they go and save for down times, I say it's a hard but overdo and important lesson. Learning the true value of their marketable skills, vs. what someone will create for them so they can just show up or it, would also be the start to some real financial maturity (as well as true security and independence). I've taken job hits before. And it sucks. But those were also times of productive self-reassessment and then on to much better opportunities. After a few of those, I learned to make the process continuing, instead of waiting to get kicked. That's real security. It can only come from oneself. The victim thing just doesn't work for me. Never did. The foreclosure suit filed against me was the result of lost income from an accident. An inexperienced kid pulled out in front of me whilst riding my motorcycle. And the dominoes in my life began to fall. As for there being any accuracy in your statement, which I've highlighted, it is apparent you don't really know what you're speaking of and have simply chosen to believe what the mainstream media has offered up. Uncle Nasty

pahunkboy -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/6/2009 7:04:02 PM)
I think I would rather bit hit straight on by a nuke then be on the outskirts. Sudden death or a long show painful one... hmmm

Musicmystery -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/6/2009 8:06:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UncleNasty quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery People may have to [shudder] start buying homes and cars they can afford, instead of what they wish for. Everyone here who has lost one or both did so because they were overextended. Truth is, the loans should never have been made, and those people wouldn't have been upside down. People learning the difference between a want and a need wouldn't be such a bad thing either. What I DON'T see is any of those neighbors standing in bread lines or selling apples on the corner. They did, however, have to scale down to meet reality--kicking and screaming, perhaps, but back to reality. If all this means people learn to pay as they go and save for down times, I say it's a hard but overdo and important lesson. Learning the true value of their marketable skills, vs. what someone will create for them so they can just show up or it, would also be the start to some real financial maturity (as well as true security and independence). I've taken job hits before. And it sucks. But those were also times of productive self-reassessment and then on to much better opportunities. After a few of those, I learned to make the process continuing, instead of waiting to get kicked. That's real security. It can only come from oneself. The victim thing just doesn't work for me. Never did. The foreclosure suit filed against me was the result of lost income from an accident. An inexperienced kid pulled out in front of me whilst riding my motorcycle. And the dominoes in my life began to fall. As for there being any accuracy in your statement, which I've highlighted, it is apparent you don't really know what you're speaking of and have simply chosen to believe what the mainstream media has offered up. Uncle Nasty By "here," UN, I mean literally here, my living breathing neighbors. Your situation is anecdotal, and not a function of the economy. I very much DO think--from neighbors, not from "what the mainstream media has offered up," that, for example, struggling to make mortgage payments while three months beyond on the power bill and driving a $40,000 pickup on which one carries a seven year--yes, seven year--loan is, well, stupid. She cried for a month when a kid hit the truck (ran a stop sign) and she found out she owed $5000 more than than truck was worth---not because she now couldn't get another truck, but because she couldn't get a new truck (and didn't have the $5000 for the upside down loan. After a year, it finally occurred to her that maybe she couldn't afford to keep horses for pleasure. Yep, she had a misfortune. And yes, she put herself in a bad situation first. But here's the thing, UN--you aren't sitting around whining about it (at least not that I've seen). You're doing what needs to be done. Obviously, bad stuff happens. Making the worst of it doesn't help--and a lot of people have no clue what "bad times" truly are. So yeah, I stick by the post. Anyone else with misfortunes ready to chime in too? Still doesn't make buying a house/car (or horse) one can't afford a smart idea. And no, that doesn't mean that's what everyone who lost one did. Ah, nevermind. I'll leave you folks to your party.

MzMia -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/6/2009 8:12:05 PM)
[:)] It does indeed take all "kinds" to make the world go round. I hope you're life has taken a turn for the better these days. Thanks for posting, Uncle Nasty.

UncleNasty -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/7/2009 5:43:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: UncleNasty quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery People may have to [shudder] start buying homes and cars they can afford, instead of what they wish for. Everyone here who has lost one or both did so because they were overextended. Truth is, the loans should never have been made, and those people wouldn't have been upside down. People learning the difference between a want and a need wouldn't be such a bad thing either. What I DON'T see is any of those neighbors standing in bread lines or selling apples on the corner. They did, however, have to scale down to meet reality--kicking and screaming, perhaps, but back to reality. If all this means people learn to pay as they go and save for down times, I say it's a hard but overdo and important lesson. Learning the true value of their marketable skills, vs. what someone will create for them so they can just show up or it, would also be the start to some real financial maturity (as well as true security and independence). I've taken job hits before. And it sucks. But those were also times of productive self-reassessment and then on to much better opportunities. After a few of those, I learned to make the process continuing, instead of waiting to get kicked. That's real security. It can only come from oneself. The victim thing just doesn't work for me. Never did. The foreclosure suit filed against me was the result of lost income from an accident. An inexperienced kid pulled out in front of me whilst riding my motorcycle. And the dominoes in my life began to fall. As for there being any accuracy in your statement, which I've highlighted, it is apparent you don't really know what you're speaking of and have simply chosen to believe what the mainstream media has offered up. Uncle Nasty By "here," UN, I mean literally here, my living breathing neighbors. Your situation is anecdotal, and not a function of the economy. I very much DO think--from neighbors, not from "what the mainstream media has offered up," that, for example, struggling to make mortgage payments while three months beyond on the power bill and driving a $40,000 pickup on which one carries a seven year--yes, seven year--loan is, well, stupid. She cried for a month when a kid hit the truck (ran a stop sign) and she found out she owed $5000 more than than truck was worth---not because she now couldn't get another truck, but because she couldn't get a new truck (and didn't have the $5000 for the upside down loan. After a year, it finally occurred to her that maybe she couldn't afford to keep horses for pleasure. Yep, she had a misfortune. And yes, she put herself in a bad situation first. But here's the thing, UN--you aren't sitting around whining about it (at least not that I've seen). You're doing what needs to be done. Obviously, bad stuff happens. Making the worst of it doesn't help--and a lot of people have no clue what "bad times" truly are. So yeah, I stick by the post. Anyone else with misfortunes ready to chime in too? Still doesn't make buying a house/car (or horse) one can't afford a smart idea. And no, that doesn't mean that's what everyone who lost one did. Ah, nevermind. I'll leave you folks to your party. That was a bit of a knee jerk reaction on my part MM. After your pointing it out to me I now clearly see the word "here," which I had managed to overlook previously. Quite the qualifier that word, and rather invalidating of my post to you. Apologies are offered. Uncle Nasty

pahunkboy -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/7/2009 6:36:07 AM)
This is getting creepy. More people open about finance woes. ...often never talked about.

Musicmystery -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/7/2009 9:18:06 AM)
quote: Apologies are offered. Uncle Nasty Readily accepted. No worries. Tim

Moonhead -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/7/2009 9:51:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I think I would rather bit hit straight on by a nuke then be on the outskirts. Sudden death or a long show painful one... hmmm I'm not sure Mars is on solid ground with this one. Tactical nukes are (for obvious reasons) comparatively clean, and probably one of the few things that would be noticed if somebody tried to sneak one into the country. Now somebody crashing an airliner into a nuclear plant, on the other hand, I would be worried about. Much more radiation contamination than you'd get from a tactical nuclear weapon.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/7/2009 10:27:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrongNotCruel Very hard question. This recession is perhaps viewed as the latest in a string of financial bubbles "bursting". First the dot-com, then housing, then the financial industry. Some folks feel that commercial real estate is preparing to burst, driving more very bad assets into an already weakened financial system. I'm assuming you live in the US from the particulars of your question. Most people that study this stuff feel that the economy will stabilize, with unemployment in the 10% range, much worse in certain areas of the country, and that growth will not lead to job creation. The New York Times has a couple of economists, Paul Krugman being one of them, that are worth reading if you want more information. The US isn't leading the world out of this recession, and we may need to really dedicate ourselves to education and infrastructure to have an economy that can support this country. "Some folks feel ....preparing to burst"? It is happening and will only get worse. Paul Krugman...worth reading? Only if you find watching an obviously intelligent person get things so wrong entertaining.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/7/2009 10:29:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia Anyway we can get back some of the jobs we have outsourced? Yup, cut corporate taxes and make doing business here more profitable.

mnottertail -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/7/2009 10:34:38 AM)
Nope. Tried that, didn't work. See where we are today. http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1311

Musicmystery -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/7/2009 10:35:10 AM)
quote: Paul Krugman...worth reading? Only if you find watching an obviously intelligent person get things so wrong entertaining. Fortunately, such highly credentialled people like you are around to help all the idiot readers see the truth.

MarsBonfire -> RE: Is a Depression coming in 2010. a real possibility? (10/9/2009 7:20:15 PM)
In my case, I was using the term "tactical nuke" as an indication of the physical size of the device. Not so much it's yeild or how "dirty" it may be. In all likliehood, a weapon that terrorists would get their hands on would be either home made, or originally of soviet bloc manufacture. Either way, you can be fairly sure that the blast would be measurable in comparison to eith Hiroshima or Nagasaki. But you miss the whole point of my previous post: I'm saying if there is a second great depression coming or not... or if there is another attack on US soil or not... it's good to stay prepared for a possible breakdown in society. I keep about a month's supply of food around at all times. I keep a well stocked first aid kit. (with some antibiotics that I can use for barter) I know where I can get fresh water on my land. I have all the cookware I need to cook in my fireplace, or over an open fire outside. I'm not saying we should all dig in and be paranoid survivalists... but I am saying it's better to be prepared than caught with your pants down.

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