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Having said that... what is the purpose of an AK47? or an uzzi? A person can't hunt with them (can they?). There is only ONE purpose and that is to KILL another human being. This is where my concern comes in.

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ORIGINAL: angelic

Maybemaybenot, i did mispeak about the Columbine incident. Those young men were evil and wired wrong. They purchased their illegal weapons off the internet and kept the arsenal hidden. It would have happened regardless of what their parents may have done.

i have seen, however, parents saying how they have done the right thing about education, etc. with guns and their children; and are amazed when little cindy shows little johnny the cool gun mom and dad have, and then one of them are 'accidentially' shot.

Which leads me to another question... at what age is the appropriate age to begin teaching children about guns? At what age are their minds developed enough to fully grasp how deadly they are?

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Children, accidental or intentionally, injured or killed by firearms are evening news lead stories. Realty is if the causes of accidental childhood death were to be prioritized; going after the guns would only occur after bicycles, and swimming pools. Drowning is the second leading cause of death, yet no one is pushing for making it illegal to have a pool in your home if you have a child under 10.

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the only other point this slave would like to comment on is that MOM wasn't going to the job every day and neither was DAD until this slave was 12. having a parent at home during the day might seem a waste of income earning potential, but this slave doesn't think any amount of money can compensate for it.

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ORIGINAL: angelic

Erin, it's ok to single me out. ;) this is what discussions should be about. And, i did learn something, i didn't know an AK47 can be used to hunt.

(i still don't like guns, tho)

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at what age is the appropriate age to begin teaching children about guns? At what age are their minds developed enough to fully grasp how deadly they are?

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ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

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ORIGINAL: angelic

Which leads me to another question... at what age is the appropriate age to begin teaching children about guns? At what age are their minds developed enough to fully grasp how deadly they are?

angelic:

As a non gun owner, I am not qualified to answer the question about when to start teaching children, but I hope the answer is from they moment they see and recognize one. Meaning, we teach litte children not to touch a burning candle, so the same should apply to guns.

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ORIGINAL: angelic

well Wwe can't stop them from getting guns. They are sold on the internet..

i would like to reiterate though... i have NO desire to take away Yyour rights to carry and own guns.

i do think there needs to be tighter regulations on the gun manufacturers though. (LOL i love opening up cans of worms... i never did learn to stfu while i was behind) ;)

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i do think there needs to be tighter regulations on the gun manufacturers though. (LOL i love opening up cans of worms...

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ORIGINAL: fergus


2) Even if the laws are tightened, and enforced ... it takes the guns out of the hands of citizens rather than criminals, who will still be getting them.

fergus

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Which leads me to another question... at what age is the appropriate age to begin teaching children about guns? At what age are their minds developed enough to fully grasp how deadly they are?

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

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Having said that... what is the purpose of an AK47? or an uzzi? A person can't hunt with them (can they?). There is only ONE purpose and that is to KILL another human being. This is where my concern comes in.

See now...this is a perfect example of why I feel education is important. Not trying to single you out angelic....many people have this exact same perception.

It is true that the AK-47 is a weapon that was designed with the sole intent of killing people. It is a military weapon. It serves that purpose very well. It does not make the weapon a bad weapon because of that fact alone. The problem comes when it is misused or becomes an icon or weapon of choice for an unsavory element. Kind of like the bad name that pitbulls have gotten...not because the breed is inherently bad...but because they have become a status symbol among people who should never own one. Because they are being bred in large numbers by people who know nothing about breeding. Because they are being raised and trained by people whose intentions are misguided at best and far less than hnorable at worst.

You can indeed hunt with an AK-47. It is a reliable and accurate weapon that has the power to make a clean kill. I own an SKS, which is for all intents and purposes the same as an AK-47. It can be purchased relatively cheaply and the ammunition is also very cheap to purchase. I have and do hunt with it on occasion. It has the range, the accuracy and the power that I desire. It is illegal to own an fully automatic weapon...the SKS is semi-automatic. That means that it can hold a large amount of ammunition and be fired repetitively very quickly. The fact that it is semi-automatic...and could easily be modified to be fully automatic does not make the weapon itself bad. Most handguns are never purchased for or used for hunting. That does not make them bad. It is only when they land in the hands of someone with less than honorable intent that bad comes into the picture.

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ORIGINAL: angelic
Maybemaybenot, i did mispeak about the Columbine incident. Those young men were evil and wired wrong.

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ORIGINAL: Chaingang

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ORIGINAL: angelic
Maybemaybenot, i did mispeak about the Columbine incident. Those young men were evil and wired wrong.

I will speak for the dead...

The Columbine High School massacre is horrifying to contemplate because it recapitulates the workings of our society in a microcosm. The shooters, Harris and Klebold, were known outcasts. They were hated and vilified. They were bullied and insulted daily...

Red flag anyone?

...

The reality of social cliques in high schools was a frequent topic of discussion. Many argued that the pair's isolation from the rest of their classmates prompted feelings of helplessness, insecurity and depression, as well as a strong desire for attention. Some schools also began programs to expose and stop school bullying, which many charged had fueled anger and resentment within Harris and Klebold.

and:

...on the fifth anniversary of Columbine, the FBI's lead Columbine investigator and other top psychiatrists went public with their conclusions in a Slate story entitled The Depressive and the Psychopath.[24] They diagnosed Harris as a clinical psychopath and Klebold as a depressive, and saw that the plan was masterminded by Harris. He had a messianic-level superiority complex, and hoped to illustrate his massive superiority to the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre

...

To me the Columbine High School situation was created by the way society seems to naturally stratify into levels of the "in" and the "out." Harris and Klebold were outsiders that made everyone pay for it. This may sound stupid as an analogy, but has anyone seen the films "The Outsiders" or "Rumblefish"? Both of those stories are based on the fiction of S.E. Hinton who often writes stories about outcast youth and their struggles with alienation. If you watch or read those works you will learn what it's like on the other side, to know what it means to NEVER gain acceptance from the main herd of society.

When I was a young man, I was the kind of boy that picked on kids like the shooters. I was good-looking, intelligent, and well-liked. My girlfriends came from the girls that were cheerleaders, baton twirlers, or drill-team captains. My friends were often fellow athletes from the various sporting teams of which we were all members. I also made friends with what we called "the smacks" - the unusually bright and geeky kids - because I was actually one of them as well. I traversed freely among several social groups, which was unusual. But damn, I hated kids like the shooters: scrawny, weak, sometimes seemingly unintelligent, possibly effeminate, etc. If they seemed really "different" I hated them and picked on them because of it and I was even congratulated for it by my friends. I also thusly gained the attention of the girls that were looking for the guys higher up in the pecking order. That's what it was really - sexual display and defining of the pecking order. Anyway, I would find kids like that I make them specific targets for my youthful violence and raging hormones. One kid I picked on got kicked out of a class because I was always picking on him - instead of kicking me out, they kicked him out because the teacher liked me better! Now that's just wrong, of course - but that's how it happens: selection of the better socialized, however brutal. You start stacking up instances of maltreatment like that high enough and you have built yourself an anti-social monster ready to explode. And as a man looking back on who I was as a boy, I blame the boy I was for kids like Harris and Klebold.

BTW, that kid I got kicked out of class later became one of my best friends in my 20s. One day we met somewhere and I apologized to him for all of the maltreatment I had done to him in our youth. Being the better man, he forgave me and we share a great friendship to this very day. But understanding what went on doesn't excuse it. Making amends years later doesn't excuse it either.

It's a very real problem.

I am not blaming the victims here, I am saying that no one is an island to themselves - we are all part of a larger social network that is either working for everyone's mutual advantage or that has broken linkages and trouble spots. We sink or swim together. Take a look at the world around you and tell me it is not so.

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ORIGINAL: Elegant

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ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

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ORIGINAL: angelic

Which leads me to another question... at what age is the appropriate age to begin teaching children about guns? At what age are their minds developed enough to fully grasp how deadly they are?

angelic:

As a non gun owner, I am not qualified to answer the question about when to start teaching children, but I hope the answer is from they moment they see and recognize one. Meaning, we teach litte children not to touch a burning candle, so the same should apply to guns.

Start the education even BEFORE they see and recognize a gun! Do we only begin sex education when a child sees someone having sex? Do we begin educating about child predators and safety only when an child molestation incident has occured?

One does not have to go into specifics for a toddler but general concepts can be ingrained into the minds of wee ones.

Education for most subjects (guns, sex, BDSM, cooking etc etc) should start early and be ongoing for life.

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ORIGINAL: Chaingang

I believe the right to gun ownership should be essentially without regulation. If the weapon is made you should be able to buy it, short of something like a nuke. If a criminal has served their time, I believe in the reinstatement of all of their fundamental rights (otherwise, why even set them free?).

A government that isn't doing anything wrong has nothing to fear from it's people, right? I find it especially amusing to use this rationale in this context...

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Frankly, I think those of us that do 'like' guns should have the choice to own them as well.

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

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ORIGINAL: Chaingang

I believe the right to gun ownership should be essentially without regulation. If the weapon is made you should be able to buy it, short of something like a nuke. If a criminal has served their time, I believe in the reinstatement of all of their fundamental rights (otherwise, why even set them free?).

A government that isn't doing anything wrong has nothing to fear from it's people, right? I find it especially amusing to use this rationale in this context...

Why do you believe this? Is Afganistan your own personal utopia?