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A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 6:11:33 AM   
PolyVinyl


Posts: 49
Joined: 7/28/2009
Status: offline 		Hello everyone, I've got a question that I definitely think you could help with:
I'm reading through 'Screw the roses, send me the thorns' by Miller & Devon, and I came across this one part that mentions "bad" versions of SMers, specifically labeled the 'True slave'... The author is saying that the 'true slave' quickly gets boring because they don't seem to have a personality and are too busy trying to lose control at all times.

So here's the issue: I have a bad feeling that this may be the exact reason it's been so hard to meet anyone, because I think I am like that, trying to simply please someone/anyone.
I already read a few topics on how to write to someone the first time so they'll respond back... Chalk it up to inexperience I guess.

One thing I have noticed though is that I made a stupid assumption regarding "slavery"... not everyone is interested in treating a slave like property all the time, they still want a boyfriend or even a friend they can talk to (face-palm).

Thanks for taking the time to read this,
polyVinyl

p.s. <-- lol.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 6:32:27 AM   
GeorgiaMaam


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/27/2009
Status: offline 		I think first and foremost, you have to remember that a relationship with a Domme is a RELATIONSHIP.   That means it is going to require active participation and effort on BOTH sides.

I want a strong, self assured man who is a whole person, and chooses to submit to ME.   Not someone running around with his hand down his pants, who doesn't function well in the real world, willing to do whatever anyone tells him to do.

(in reply to PolyVinyl)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 6:47:09 AM   
PolyVinyl


Posts: 49
Joined: 7/28/2009
Status: offline 		Haha, Thanks GeorgiaMaam, I figured as much.. I could say I'm a little 'strong-willed' but I'd gladly kneel to someone who I respected...

Maybe all I need to really figure this out is time.

(in reply to GeorgiaMaam)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 6:52:56 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Please forgive me for responding because I'm a male, but I had to chime in.

I'm an engineer myself, and I love your attitude!  You've read books to investigate what you want, you've checked into the message boards to see how to contact Dommes, your writing style is excellent, and you've got a pretty darn good profile.  Despite that, you're here trying to improve still more.  With all that, I have no doubt that once you get a Domme, you'd work just as hard to serve her as you have to get her.

You have no idea how many many clueless idiots write Dommes with a specific fantasy, expecting the Domme to serve them with that fantasy.

Good job, and happy hunting!




_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to GeorgiaMaam)
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RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 6:56:37 AM   
GeorgiaMaam


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/27/2009
Status: offline 		You have to have a good handle on what you want (hint:  this should not consist of a long list of fantasy sex activities, but be a lot more well rounded and reflects that you're a real person and seeking another real person), as well as what you have to offer (hint:  showing up for kink activities should not be the sum total of what you have to offer a potential partner). 

I think a lot of men (not all, but a lot) have a hard time dealing with how to make a BDSM relationship work in the real world.  They get caught up in the idea that there are women out there that are KINKY and do hot sexy KINKY things, and can't see past that. 

First and foremost, I'm a mom - it's not the sum total of what I am, but my child is my first priority in life.  So when I get bombarded by emails from guys (frequently of the unemployed/unemployable variety) who want to immediately move in and clean my house naked/in bondage and get kink activities all day long, I have to ask myself - what planet are they on? 

BDSM relationships are just that - relationships.  We're all multi-faceted, we have good days and bad days, sometimes we want to do kink stuff and sometimes we want to do other activities like go to a movie or work in the garden.  We have to get up every day, go to work in what is most likely a non-kinky job, pay the bills, make sure the chores get done, deal with family, spend time with friends, and generally live our lives.   Kink is not the end all be all, but if handled properly, can be an enjoyable PART of our lives.

(in reply to PolyVinyl)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 7:04:28 AM   
PolyVinyl


Posts: 49
Joined: 7/28/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks DarkSteven and GeorgiaMaam... how am I going to figure that stuff out without being in a relationship though? You both have nice profiles yourself, by the way!

I agree about the gardening and stuff though, that'd be pretty cool to go kayaking with my Mistress lol.

(in reply to GeorgiaMaam)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 7:16:51 AM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		Being strong willed is different from being strong and self assured. 

I would have to echo GeorgiaMaam's posts and also suggest you attend some local munches, if you haven't yet.  Being a people pleaser, which is how I read this line... "So here's the issue: I have a bad feeling that this may be the exact reason it's been so hard to meet anyone, because I think I am like that, trying to simply please someone/anyone."...isn't as attractive to me as someone who takes the time and makes the effort to get to know me so as to please ME and not every one who comes along.

Just a quick word about your profile...In looking it over, I get mixed signals between this post and what you say as to loves/likes and such.  Saying you're an expert at "ass play/strap-ons/vacuum stimulation/chastity/CBT" and other activites and yet, according to this post, you're still trying to figure out what slavery is for you and mention "inexperience" smacks of trying to impress everyone.  On the plus side, I like that you do make mention of some interests outside of kink.  Like I say...there should be more. 

Why not drop the "expert" label and just enjoy the ride of discovery? 

Good luck.


_____________________________

"No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize"~Julia Child~


(in reply to PolyVinyl)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 7:28:04 AM   
GeorgiaMaam


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/27/2009
Status: offline
quote:

how am I going to figure that stuff out without being in a relationship though?


You start with the vanilla, and go from there.

(in reply to PolyVinyl)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 7:43:49 AM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyVinyl

Hello everyone, I've got a question that I definitely think you could help with:
I'm reading through 'Screw the roses, send me the thorns' by Miller & Devon, and I came across this one part that mentions "bad" versions of SMers, specifically labeled the 'True slave'... The author is saying that the 'true slave' quickly gets boring because they don't seem to have a personality and are too busy trying to lose control at all times.


p.s. <-- lol.



I think what's being desribed in that passage is someone who roleplays being a slave and doesn't show other aspects of their personality as they do so? I put a question mark after that statement because it's not clear if those authors knew it was roleplay, but any even slightly realistic assessment... nm, this isn't a bdsm lit-crit thread. :/

There's a wide variety of opinions about what constitutes bdsm slavery. If you're reading the messages, I'm sure you've seen some of the threads. In my personal opinion (but it's shared by others), a genuine slave is requried to be/do whatever their mistress or master orders them to be/do, within human limits. Makes sense, doesn't it? Slaves do what their owners command. And if the commands include having a personality and something to talk about, well, you'd better have or develop those if you want to be that particular person's slave! Having opinions, expressing your personality, and also being rigidly obedient is to me a far more difficult acomplishment than just roleplaying a mindless obeying robot. (I call this roleplay because unless the person has had a lobotomy or some virus that killed their brain cells, they've got a mind between their ears that is busily whirling and thinking, no matter what they are faking with their body, expression, and gestures. On the other hand, mindless roleplay can be very fun sometimes. What's the male equivelenet of a bimbo, anyway? Googled. "Himbo!" LOL! )

< Message edited by CaringandReal -- 10/11/2009 7:44:44 AM >

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(in reply to PolyVinyl)
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RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 8:19:25 AM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		It's all about compatibility.  A perfect slave for one is a terrible fit for another.

_____________________________

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http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/the-courage-to-submit-the-guide-for-the-submissive-male-seeking-a-dominant-woman/5968917

(in reply to PolyVinyl)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 8:35:34 AM   
PolyVinyl


Posts: 49
Joined: 7/28/2009
Status: offline 		I can see that... I should mention that I put down expert because I'm really interested but I didn't know what to put...so I'm gonna take that 'expert' thing off.

My definition of Strong Willed: I generally take the lead on everything (research projects), so I guess I'm used to being in control...but I like the idea of submitting to a woman I like. It's a different experience which is why it has so much appeal to me, holding the reins all the time gets boring as hell.

quote:

someone who takes the time and makes the effort to get to know me so as to please ME and not every one who comes along.


Thanks CarrieO, that's real helpful. Munches ahoy!

Thanks everyone, I've got a lot to go on!

(in reply to slavekal)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 2:11:52 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyVinyl
One thing I have noticed though is that I made a stupid assumption regarding "slavery"... not everyone is interested in treating a slave like property all the time, they still want a boyfriend or even a friend they can talk to (face-palm).


Amen, darlin.  To me, the man who wants to be powerless and/or objectified every minute of every day is an exhausting burden.  What I need most in a slave is someone a lot more like the old "Wise Greek Slave" stereotype from Roman antiquity--someone who lives in service to me, but is nonetheless wonderfully human.  Brilliant, funny (in the case of my own slave), and intelligently and sensitively supportive of my goals.  Beating and humiliating him for our mutual pleasure is a bonus, but it's not the sole foundation of the relationship or reason he's a person worth knowing.  If he took off my collar tomorrow, I would still love Aidan and think he was awesome.  'Cause he is.

Others have already mentioned that you need to know a woman well in order to serve her well.  I would add that your heart and your head have to be in the game, not just your libido.  Fantasies about being owned always tend to focus on your own end of things and the way that feels--because pleasuring yourself is what most D/S fantasies are for.  Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't prepare you very well for reality in this particular case...

Real servitude is not about you, by definition, and the difficulty of transitioning between fantasy and reality--"finding someone" as you say--is often a matter of going from being self-focused to being able to focus on someone else.  Until you genuinely care how a particular woman feels, and genuinely want to make her personally happy, you'll stay stuck in No-Domme's Land.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to PolyVinyl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 3:16:58 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		In my opinion, women are interested in partnering with someone who is going to engage them in all sorts of different ways. While some women may be seeking one or other thing (like a subservient male who only does what he is told), there are so many variations to this that basically you're back to the old dynamic of needing to basically attract a woman because you are interesting in some way. I've been through slavery a few times in my life, and what I've come to the conclusion about it is that if I kept trying to seek someone because I'm just a subservient individual, I'm really not going to find the person I'm seeking. If I'm lucky, I'm going to find someone who wants a generic slave, and thus, I'm probably just as well off seeking a generic mistress. So, instead, I've spent a great deal of energy trying to enrich myself and make myself more interesting, because I feel that might actually be something of great use to a woman down the line. And if not, at least it makes me feel a lot more useful to myself and my own sanity.

_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


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The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to PolyVinyl)
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RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 4:49:45 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeorgiaMaam

quote:

how am I going to figure that stuff out without being in a relationship though?


You start with the vanilla, and go from there.


Or to say the same as GeorgiaMaam in a different way :
Relationship first, kink second.

I see so many questions from guys here who try and put the cart before the horse. A woman likes to be treated like a woman, even if she is dominant.

(in reply to GeorgiaMaam)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: A little worried.. - 10/11/2009 5:05:27 PM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
I see so many questions from guys here who try and put the cart before the horse. A woman likes to be treated like a woman, even if she is dominant.


Just had to highlight this because it bears repeating.

_____________________________

"No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize"~Julia Child~


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: A little worried.. - 10/12/2009 1:10:01 PM   
PolyVinyl


Posts: 49
Joined: 7/28/2009
Status: offline 		:D Why do things that seem mysterious initially, but are then so obvious afterwards? And why is it that I only deal with this stuff when it comes to finding someone? hahaha... I guess the only real question is how to integrate the two (kink and personality), but I s'pose that varies uniquely from person to person.

I wonder what love feels like.

(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: A little worried.. - 10/12/2009 2:25:20 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I hate that Screw The Roses book.  Always have.  Bleh.

Just saying!

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RE: A little worried.. - 10/12/2009 3:03:57 PM   
kccuckoldmist


Posts: 97
Joined: 7/1/2009
Status: offline 		I do not think it is about lack of personality or wanting to loose control all the time but often someone unhealthy with a slave type personality seeks out constant attention and compliments they get for actively pleasing their owner that it overshadows their personality. More often then not these are people with severe self esteem issues and want to re-invent themselves through the eyes of another.

Yes, most dominants like any other person want to be with someone that gives them a wide range of things human beings often need or desire with human interaction. One trying to only be property to someone can be running away from that or like what I wrote above. The trick for a slave is to remember to be themselves always first and foremost and not to put on a mask. Then when doing this remember to obey their owner and be true to the dynamic both agreed to and not obey a vision in one’s head. If you do that there should be no problem letting your personality and other non dynamic aspects about you out while still being very much of the slave mentality.

Being a slave is part of who you are and not all of you.

I also want to echo DarkSteven and say bravo to your self awareness and wanting to learn from inward out and not just focus on the bells and whistles.



_____________________________

"The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

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(in reply to PolyVinyl)
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RE: A little worried.. - 10/14/2009 5:51:04 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		PolyVinyl, if you've never loved any of the women you've dated, never felt anything romantic, then that might not change even if you do find someone compatible to date. That has nothing to do with submission per se, but being aware of your feelings and open to experiencing life. In general, I think it's better to focus on finding someone you have basic compatibility and chemistry with than focusing on specific kinky activities. When you haven't tried anything yet, how would you *know* what you will or won't like? Keep an open mind, be willing to extend some trust in her leadership/guidance, and you should be fine.

(in reply to kccuckoldmist)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: A little worried.. - 10/15/2009 8:10:33 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		It's actually very encouraging that you are reading books to learn more about your interest in BDSM.  I'd like to commend you for your initiative in doing your research.  I think you're going to find that is a quality that will spark a lot of interest from others. 

As for the book itself, while there are parts of it that are quite good, I don't see "Screw the Roses" as the BDSM bible that a lot of people do.  A lot of it was written tongue in cheek fashion and some of it had a very One True Way feel to it.  This is countered with those sections on technical information and very good sections on how to make your own toys.  I'd rate it highly overall, but there are absolutely titles out there that I have enjoyed far more.  If this was your first book on BDSM that wasn't entirely erotica based, it was a good choice.

There is an excellent book list that you can find on this thread here.  http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1726118&key=book   If you are interested in books, might I suggest The New Bottoming Book?  I think you would enjoy that a great deal.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Andalusite)
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