Is Carol my slave?

Is Carol my slave? (Full Version)

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leadership527 -> Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 9:12:12 AM)
No no, this is not another sub/slave thread. Nor is this any attempt to redefine words in the BDSM world (an amusing thought given the general lack of definition to start with). This is just some internal musings that I thought I'd post. You know, as a result of several of the recent threads I've been giving an awful lot of thought recently regarding Carol's and my relationship. Specifically, I've been thinking about that word "slave" and, for me at least, I've come to think of it as inaccurate. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how folks before me to got to using that word. It's not a real stretch when you take submission out of the bedroom and to the extreme. It's easy to see why the word was appealing to me. It's an extreme thing and I like extreme. It speaks of a lot of control and as someone who's too freakin lazy to be fighting with his chosen tool all the time, that's appealing. And, vaguely, it connects into some internal, primal sort of thing that's hard to describe. But it's that last part that really got me wondering. Notably because the word "slave" doesn't connect very well with it. There are lots of awkward fits. For instance, the word "slave", at least in general usage, fails to include the love aspect. And let's be realistic here. Love is one of those truly primal human emotions. You simply cannot inject love into something and expect it to remain remotely identical to it's loveless counterpart. It's like turning on the light switch in a dark room. It may be the same room as it always was, but the presence of the light is just going to inevitably change my interaction with it. "Slave" also doesn't capture the ownership angle very well. I've owned lots of property in my life. One thing that is true of all of it is that it's pretty much easy come, easy go. I had a littla Miata I LOVED before we moved up to Canada. Fun little car. Sexy. I sold it. No biggie, they make more and if I want another one, I know where to go to get one. THAT is what property is to me. It is not what Carol is to me. The word "mine" carries SO much more weight when applied to her than when applied to my miata. Whatever the thing that she is to me, it's a LOT more possessive than the word slave could ever hope to describe. It's a snarling, hissing, and very very ready to fight kind of possessive that I just cannot imagine relating to anything else -- certainly not something I simply bought and might sell again. So what is this thing, exactly? It feels a lot like slave including ownership, authority, and yes, grovelling at my feet but it isn't that. In the end, I'm settling on the idea that there's some phrase we don't have... something along the lines of "my mate" or "my woman" if you were to take out all the civilized finery from those words -- or, maybe more accurately, leave the civilized finery in but also add in a whole lot of very uncivilized and very not-fine meanings laughs. I don't know. Just random musings as I sort this out in my head. I will probably continue to use the word "slave" in BDSM contexts mostly because I think it gets someone's head in the right general direction. Heh, in the end though, I'm starting to wonder if there wasn't some point in the distant past when the phrase I would be searching for would be "my wife". God, that thought is just so gorean that I feel like I need to take a shower now but there it is all the same. Maybe we just over-civilized a very old and very natural thing.

happylittlepet -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 9:25:26 AM)
My own musings with regard to the word slave are many. It's erotic: love-slave

tazzygirl -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 9:28:38 AM)
~grins at the "gorean" usage ya know... mine!.. says it all.. nicely... succinctly... effectively im gonna get alot of heat for this... but... eh.. im used to that slave is just another term, having no more or any less meaning than you wish to give it, or she wishes to hear in it. nothing else matters except the two of you and your bond. if mine! works... then it works... if you need more... then create more. the beauty is.. its all yours and hers.

xssve -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 9:31:57 AM)
I would ask Carol.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 9:47:56 AM)
Carol sounds as if she is part of the whole that is you. and you are part of the whole that is her. Slave makes an artificial distinction/barrier between the two of you. Maybe you need to stop thinking about it and just live it. Get out of your head and venture into real life. ([:)]) It is interesting to think about some of the things posted here, but if it screws with your head, then you are in trouble.

xssve -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 9:51:07 AM)
What Kiwi said - what's in a name?

LaTigresse -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 9:51:08 AM)
I am thinking it doesn't much matter what you and Carol come up with for terminology. What matters is whatever that term is, what it means to you.

SimplyIsaac -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 9:57:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 You know, as a result of several of the recent threads I've been giving an awful lot of thought recently regarding Carol's and my relationship. Specifically, I've been thinking about that word "slave" and, for me at least, I've come to think of it as inaccurate. Looks like the full moon got you thinking. At any rate, in-depth self reflection and double-takes on assumptions is always good.

SimplyIsaac -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:02:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 Slave makes an artificial distinction/barrier between the two of you. It is interesting to think about some of the things posted here, but if it screws with your head, then you are in trouble. Nice rhetoric, but not very helpful. Intellectual laziness can interfere with living your life just as much as intellectualizing too much.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:05:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 Slave makes an artificial distinction/barrier between the two of you. It is interesting to think about some of the things posted here, but if it screws with your head, then you are in trouble. Nice rhetoric, but not very helpful. Intellectual laziness can interfere with living your life just as much as intellectualizing too much. Nice rhetoric, but not very helpful. [;)]

Missokyst -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:08:18 AM)
As I have said before I have issues with being thought of as property, for those very reasons you mention. I can love my property but its not a big deal to replace it and keep the fond memories intact. Being owned, being property is not the same deal as being loved in my view. I always thought that what I read about you and carol was more like love than ownership. I like the word mate. To me it signifies a position that no one else holds. I was his mate, he was mine. We belonged to each other, two in partnership, working for a common end. And as always, with one captain at the helm.

dreamerdreaming -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:08:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 Slave makes an artificial distinction/barrier between the two of you. It is interesting to think about some of the things posted here, but if it screws with your head, then you are in trouble. Nice rhetoric, but not very helpful. Intellectual laziness can interfere with living your life just as much as intellectualizing too much. Nice rhetoric, but not very helpful. [;)] LMAO!!! [:D] Thanks, kiwisub!

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:08:47 AM)
Hiya Jeff, Without context, the word slave can mean many different things. Also, who says that there is no love involved in owning a slave? Any living property, no matter the species, we may very well develop a strong emotional, even love connection with. I had a dog once that went with me everywhere. Buddy was loyal, obedient, sometimes fiesty, rare occasions he got in trouble, and I loved that dog more than many of the humans I have met in my life. The law states that animals are property, but there was an immense love I had for that property. Buddy was a dog, and I am treated him as such, because to treat him any other way may wind up causing mental an emotional problems with him. This does not mean I did not love him, in fact my drive to treat Buddy as a dog, sprang from my love and desire to have as good a pirce of property as I could have. While Buddy was alive, if he started acting odd, having emotional problems, or mental issues I would have looked closely at him. I would have examined Buddy inside and out, if need be. If in that examination I had discovered that Buddy was actually a cat, I would have realized what the problem is and started treating Buddy like a cat. In all of this Buddy was still property, loved, cared for, and a part of my family, in fact Buddy was a part of me. Buddy had some power over me, with the pleading looks when he wanted some of my food that would be bad for him, and it would have been easy to give in and give him some, but I knew it would not be good for him. Often the things that are the most right, are the most difficult to do. I wish you well on this journey of examination, and I wish Carol well. Most of all I wish you both well, together. To finish my analogy and story, Buddy died a little over 10 years ago. I grieved for the loss of my property, and that scar/wound is still here with me today. I never owned another dog after that, a part of me never wanted to feel that pain again. I own property again now, just human property. It has to be treated differently, but the same basic rules apply. If something begins to go wrong, I will examine it, and make adjustments. I am fully prepared that if one of those adjustments is that my property is not a slave, then I will make adjustments. Even if those adjustments mean that I am not a good owner, and my property need that. I love my property, and she is a part of me. I believe much of this may be true with you as well. Live well, Orion

IronBear -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:15:53 AM)
When I use the term "slave' I am using it in a well defined manner meaning a specific level of submission which differs vastly for me than someone who I label "sub" yet a slave is still property albeit a very special piece of property to be cherished and valued. It take time, sometimes a great deal of time in a probationary house collar before the level of submission/commitment I expect, want and demand is freely given along with the trust and respect earned by me before a full house collar is awarded. As I say time and time alone is the key at this point. I may take years after this before I will award my personal collar to the girl , assuming this is what she wants remembering that there are those who are happiest in a house collar and owned by both Neets and I. At that time I will claim her as mine, mine in body mind and soul. When I refer to any piece of property as mine it is a warning that it is not for loan or use by others and is to be either treated with respect or left alone and I will break fingers of people fiddling with my property without express permission. I'll tell the dogs to bite if someone tried to interfere with them as I will tell a girl to bite, scratch and kick the testicles of any one trying to fiddle with her. maybe one in a hundred would find a place in my home and one in a thousand find a place in my personal collar so you better believe they are jolly special to me and they will know it too. I agree with others, use the terminology which suits you the best and tell the rest of the world to get stuffed by a woolly bull of they argue with your choices.

catize -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:24:20 AM)
What I am thinking is there is a vast difference between property that is an object (<<your>> miata) and human property (<<your>> Wife, <<your>> Love focus). There are many THINGS I have owned which I have loved, but they were simply items which pleased me to have; there were no reciprocal emotions so they were replaceable, some more easily than others. Historically, the word ‘wife’ was almost synonymous with ‘slave’ and so perhaps your relationship is like a marriage from way back when. Is Carol your slave? I would say yes, she is, but she is much more than that to you. There are many words in our language that are inadequate descriptions of what we want them to ‘really’ mean. Ya just gotta go with the word that is available, and if necessary, add to it to make it fit within your world.

SimplyIsaac -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:33:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 Slave makes an artificial distinction/barrier between the two of you. It is interesting to think about some of the things posted here, but if it screws with your head, then you are in trouble. Nice rhetoric, but not very helpful. Intellectual laziness can interfere with living your life just as much as intellectualizing too much. Nice rhetoric, but not very helpful. [;)] Speaking in platitudes was evidence enough the parrot icon fit, but this contribution seals the deal.

SimplyIsaac -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:35:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst As I have said before I have issues with being thought of as property, for those very reasons you mention. I can love my property but its not a big deal to replace it and keep the fond memories intact. Being owned, being property is not the same deal as being loved in my view. I always thought that what I read about you and carol was more like love than ownership. I like the word mate. To me it signifies a position that no one else holds. I was his mate, he was mine. We belonged to each other, two in partnership, working for a common end. And as always, with one captain at the helm. That sums it up honestly and nicely, Missokyst.

kallisto -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:47:26 AM)
I think we can put too much emphasis on "labels". Sure each of us at one time or another needs a label to define who we are at any given moment. But I would much rather be known as "His" to encompass everything that I am to him, whether that includes sub, slave, wife, mate, mother, friend, lover, etc. One thing about it, there is no right or wrong answer here. [:)]

SirNico -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:55:07 AM)
i think the better question is 'are YOU carol's MASTER? you know, when you had the miata it was fun and stuff, but did you CARE for it? did you assume 'responsibility' for it? Clean it and oil it regularly? or just park it in the driveway and forget about it till the next time you decided to 'use' it. I list myself as a 'Top' because being a Master, at least to me, connotes a level of dedication and caring that i am not prepared to give, yet. i have a 'bottom' and we have been together for years, she is also my best friend, confidant, and associate. do you CARE for carol, emotionally, physically, spiritually? from your writing it seems you care for her, but just because someone 'performs' for you with unquestioned actions doesn't make them a 'slave' or 'property'. again, to me, D/s lifestyling has always been about a TWO WAY commitment, with each person serving an EQUAL role, because without a bottom i am not a Top, i am not anything, and you, without carol, what are you then? bottoms, submissives and slaves live their role depending on their degree of commitment THEY need, not what is forced upon them. we as Tops, Doms and Masters fulfill our 'end of the bargain' and satisfy our specific need and level of commitment. why should one be placed more importantly than the other?

kiwisub12 -> RE: Is Carol my slave? (10/11/2009 10:58:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 Slave makes an artificial distinction/barrier between the two of you. It is interesting to think about some of the things posted here, but if it screws with your head, then you are in trouble. Nice rhetoric, but not very helpful. Intellectual laziness can interfere with living your life just as much as intellectualizing too much. Nice rhetoric, but not very helpful. [;)] Speaking in platitudes was evidence enough the parrot icon fit, but this contribution seals the deal. As did yours. If you had been around longer you would realise that Jeff spends a lot of time thinking about his relationship with Carol. And perhaps a little less thinking would be in order. Carol has issues with the term "slave" , and the same advice applies to her! and don't knock the icon - the icon is cute!

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