RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes?

RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:44:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic I won't be watching the Maher link, we've covered my attitude towards bigots like him before, but to the larger issue, gays in the military are exactly as big a problem as we choose to make them. Military society is not just like civilian society, with more standardized haircuts. Order and discipline come first, and the military is a very prudish organization. You can go to jail for heterosexual activity with the wrong person. I think the fear is that openly gay servicemembers are going to interfere with the order and discipline, that issues will develop of the "rainbow-flag" wing of the barracks, and that homophobia will rear its head, and cause still more problems. I have read somewhere (I don't feel like hunting it up) that more people have been thrown out of the military for homosexuality since the Clinton policy was put into effect, than when there was an outright ban. I served before Don't ask - Don't tell came along. At that time, nobody's sex life was anybody else's business. There were gay people on my base, and in my barracks, and there were heterosexual guys who fucked the wives of every crew chief who deployed, and everybody understood that we didn't talk about who put their dick where. It had nothing to do with accomplishing the mission. It's completely non-scientific of course, but I have noticed that a higher percentage of my gay friends are veterans than my straight friends. All from before Bill Clinton tried to make it better, but made it worse, the first time. I don't know when you served but in 1985 to 1991, when I served, and anecdotally until DADTDP wa sput in place people's sexual activity, real or imagined, was routinely being used as a club against them. A female student turns down her teacher's advances. A sudden health and safety inspection finds a double dildo in her locker and her and her room mate are out of the serivce as lesbians. (happened in the barracks I lived in during A school in 1986) Sailor comes home from a Westpac and doesn't like that his wife is shacked up with a zero. Somebody makes an anonymous call to the hotline for reporting gays and the guy is on the way out. (happened to a guy on my ship in 1987) Gay SCPO gets caught in a raid of a gay club. Turns in a bunch of people he claims are gay as well and is allowed to retire. (1990 Washington navy Yard) The law needs to be changed and the executive order needs to be issued.

kittinSol -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:45:27 PM)
Personally, I understand little of the motivations that will make someone sign up - that being said, it sounds to me like you're bitter about your time in the army and that you regret signing up. That's fine, but in the process of feeling bitter, you sound like you're making homosexuals responsible for your poor personal choice of signing up. And once again, homosexuals become the scapegoat of choice for somebody [8\|] .

slvemike4u -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:46:07 PM)
I don't know Tazzy....i get the idea(from reading some of these posts) that gay persons of a certain age have absolutely no qualms about getting it on where ever or whenever they are in each others company(hell...it seems entirely likely that the sexual orientation of their "target" matters little). Amazing lack of self control these little faggots are exhibiting

Aylee -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:48:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial I spent 3 years in the Army in the late 70s. I had homosexuals in my room in the barracks. Two of them. It was disgusting. We were all around 20 years old. There were at least a handful of homosexual women in the companies I was assigned over that time. Everybody knew, but everybody tolerated. If you think having homosexuals in the open is so DAMN cool, you go join the Army, and be REQUIRED to share a room with some of them. I think your ARDOR (pun intended) will be considerably COOLED for the idea. I am so tired of people who never spent a day in the military, talk as though it is perfectly harmless to have homosexuals in it. All this lofty intellectual talk, COMPLETELY IGNORES the actual behavior of people of that age, and that hormone level, all being tossed in together. I was miserable. They were miserable. It was miserable. Wake up, and actually imagine how teenagers actually behave, rather than how egg-headed intellectuals PRETEND they behave. What utter nonsense. I just want EVERYONE to know that I was in the Army for 8 years, under the DADTDP policy and I do NOT share these views. While I do have reasons that I believe that ending the policy with the stroke of a pen is a BAD idea it is NOT based on worry about sex in the trenches.

tazzygirl -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:50:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial You people, with your oh so tolerant attitudes, just don't get it. If you join, you cannot get out. You cannot live where you want. You are ASSIGNED. If you try to avoid the assignment, it is a CRIME. You can be demoted. You can be dishonorably discharged, which will follow you for the rest of your life. Get a clue. It's pathetic you people don't know how the people who risk their lives for YOUR life, don't understand the conditions and terms under which we live. A CRIME means, you can be arrested and imprisoned. Utterly ungrateful, unthinking fools. Who do not deserve the three years I gave. I regret it now, spending those three years for those who have no gratitude for my sacrifice. Obviously you do not read the posts of others. My whole life was the military. Growing up in it gives one a certain advantage. As kids, we were often overlooked, yet privy to alot of information. You believe you were dealing with homosexual woman... ever thought they were bi-sexual? Being part of the lifestyle should give you a hint of the possibilities. And, honey, i can overlook alot of what roommates do. All this whining for three years of service? I watched our neighbors for years longer than that. I also watched the married men beating their wives, the younger men spending their nights getting drunk, and whining like bitch boys the next day with hang overs.. (man, did my dad love fucking with those guys) If two women turn your stomach that badly... lol... i doubt you will find much sympathy here. I personally dont care if someone prefers cock over clit.. or the other way around. Seeing as how they are giving their lives for my freedom, they can do pretty much whoever they want on their off time.

MMercurial -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:53:12 PM)
To kittinsol: Exactly YOU do not understand. I adore my country. Adore it. I understand it. I have spent my life studying my country. I would do almost anything for it. The United States of America at one point was the zenith for western civilization. And people like you, do not deserve the rich bounty of that civilization. People like you take from your culture, and don't mind tearing it down. It's amusing to you. It's not amusing to me. It's sacred. I regret spending one second serving when a human being like you exists to make smarmy comments, and when I know you would not life a single finger for this wonderful culture. I bet you avoid jury duty like the plague. Unfortunately, reality is, people like you will always exist to take advantage of what others, of principle and dedication, do.

slvemike4u -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:53:50 PM)
Sounds like we need a new "dont ask ,dont tell"policy.....for homophobia.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:56:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial You people, with your oh so tolerant attitudes, just don't get it. If you join, you cannot get out. You cannot live where you want. You are ASSIGNED. If you try to avoid the assignment, it is a CRIME. You can be demoted. You can be dishonorably discharged, which will follow you for the rest of your life. Get a clue. This is really beside the point because if you know homosexuality is accepted by the military then you know what to expect when you sign up to it, no? Your naivety as to what you got rather than expected and your regrets over serving are another point altogether. If you don't want to be subjected to the remote possibility of witnessing a homosexual act then don't sign up, simple. Your argument falls apart slightly because it is actually the opposite point i.e. you say homosexuality always existed in the military so what did you do about it when it occurred randomly in front of you? The don't ask don't tell policy leaves everyone in the dark as to what they could be witness to. The military finally getting off the fence now obviously gives homophobic people more or an informed choice than they ever did in the past as to if they themselves should serve or not.

tazzygirl -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:56:36 PM)
LOL was just thinking that too!! im just waiting to see what gems of stupidity she comes up with next. But, after her last post, im glad she is no longer in the military. then again, if she had stayed in, someone would have shot her ass in that fox hole.

Thadius -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:56:49 PM)
The president needs to or should issue the executive order getting rid of this silly policy. However, there needs to be one more step taken to make sure there isn't a reenstatement or a perceived need for it. The UCMJ needs to be changed in regards to some of its rules on various sex acts... take away the club that can be used against gays and lesbians and you take away the need for any sort of perceived protection from said club. Just as many sodomy laws have changed or been done away with, because they are outdated; the sodomy rules for military personnel need to change. Just my 2 bits, Thadius

mnottertail -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 12:59:23 PM)
I regret spending one second serving when a human being like you exists to make smarmy comments, and when I know you would not life a single finger for this wonderful culture. I bet you avoid jury duty like the plague. Unfortunately, reality is, people like you will always exist to take advantage of what others, of principle and dedication, do. para one: Then you didn't serve, because that's what we guarded was the right for free human beings to do exactly that. para two: fortunately or unfortunately, real americans insure that those folks always exist.

Thadius -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 1:00:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial To kittinsol: Exactly YOU do not understand. I adore my country. Adore it. I understand it. I have spent my life studying my country. I would do almost anything for it. The United States of America at one point was the zenith for western civilization. And people like you, do not deserve the rich bounty of that civilization. People like you take from your culture, and don't mind tearing it down. It's amusing to you. It's not amusing to me. It's sacred. I regret spending one second serving when a human being like you exists to make smarmy comments, and when I know you would not life a single finger for this wonderful culture. I bet you avoid jury duty like the plague. Unfortunately, reality is, people like you will always exist to take advantage of what others, of principle and dedication, do. Good afternoon awesome patriotic one, I was just curious about the reasons you were serving? Did they have anything to do with defending the Constitution? How about ensuring that our fellow citizens had and have the right to speak their minds? Damn I get all confuzzled when it comes to that whole pursuit of happiness and other stuffs.... I wish you well, Thadius

thishereboi -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 1:05:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls I normally don't like to belittle someone personally, but you must be a stupid sob if you think gays should be allowed to openly serve in the military. The fact is, most men are not gay or bisexual, and it will hurt troop recruitment by allowing them to openly serve. Yes, women make up a small portion of the military, but for the most part, only physically superior men are able to handle combat operations. No one wants to be in a foxhole where your buddy would rather suck your dick than shoot at the enemy. Worse yet, he may shoot you if you refuse to allow him to suck your dick, then invite the enemy into the foxhole to replace you. You don't know many gays, do you? I would comment more on your post, but I am not up to a letter from M11 today.

Vendaval -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 1:05:36 PM)
Fast Reply - If the current law is repealed what law or policies will replace it? What is best for the service men and women who serve America?

mnottertail -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 1:06:59 PM)
I suspect someone is gonna report that post, and that poster is gonna get a letter from M11 and you are going to have to walk around a bunch of [awaiting approval] for a week or two. Ron

thishereboi -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 1:10:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial You people, with your oh so tolerant attitudes, just don't get it. If you join, you cannot get out. You cannot live where you want. You are ASSIGNED. If you try to avoid the assignment, it is a CRIME. A CRIME means: you can be arrested and imprisoned. You can be demoted. You can be dishonorably discharged, which will follow you for the rest of your life. Get a clue. It's pathetic you people don't know how the people who risk their lives for YOUR life, don't understand the conditions and terms under which we live. Utterly ungrateful, unthinking fools. Who do not deserve the three years I gave. I regret it now, spending those three years for those who have no gratitude for my sacrifice. Oh you poor little girl. All that dedication and no one appreciates it. Look I am really sorry you got squicked out by the two girls getting it on. Next time go to bed and don't watch.

tazzygirl -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 1:14:31 PM)
pst... i made the same mistake... MMecurial is female

Moonhead -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 1:14:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial To kittinsol: Exactly YOU do not understand. I adore my country. Adore it. I understand it. I have spent my life studying my country. I would do almost anything for it. The United States of America at one point was the zenith for western civilization. And people like you, do not deserve the rich bounty of that civilization. People like you take from your culture, and don't mind tearing it down. It's amusing to you. It's not amusing to me. It's sacred. I regret spending one second serving when a human being like you exists to make smarmy comments, and when I know you would not life a single finger for this wonderful culture. I bet you avoid jury duty like the plague. Unfortunately, reality is, people like you will always exist to take advantage of what others, of principle and dedication, do. That's part of what you were defending as well.

thishereboi -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 1:15:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl pst... i made the same mistake... MMecurial is female yea I just caught that.

kittinSol -> RE: Dont ask, dont tell changes? (10/11/2009 1:16:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vendaval If the current law is repealed what law or policies will replace it? What is best for the service men and women who serve America? Equal treatment of gay men and women under the law: this means that gays should be able to enroll in the army openly.

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