RE: Feminism

RE: Feminism (Full Version)

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undergroundsea -> RE: Feminism (10/30/2009 8:26:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne Thanks for the response. I do not know enough about MRAs and how they compare to feminism to comment in an informed manner. What do you consider to be steps that are designed to control a soon to be ex-wife, or children? Cheers, Sea

Andalusite -> RE: Feminism (10/30/2009 8:26:24 AM)
I took GypsyMambo's use of "humanist" to be a play on words/pun on feminist, rather than a reference to the Humanist philosophy. So, I figured that Zephyr was running with that, whether or not she's also familiar with the other usage of Humanist. "So, if vegetarians eat vegetables, do humanitarians eat people?"

Lucienne -> RE: Feminism (10/30/2009 10:40:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 I'm not sure where you live Lucienne so it's possible you won't have heard of these but in Britian there are groups like Fathers for justice. Not everything they do to gain publicity is particuarly well advised but none of their philosophy is anti feminist. They just want equal rights in the courts when it comes to children caught up in divorce. Admittedly the situation in Britian is slanted quite heavily in favour of women so it's possible elsewhere the situation is different i'm sorry but my knowledge on that is limited. I live in Missouri, not exactly the most progressive state in the United States. The primary concern in custody disputes is "best interests of the children." The preference is towards joint custody, with parents cooperating on parenting decision. There's actually a case from 20 years ago stating that you can't give preferential custody to the mother just because she is the mother. Men already have equal rights under the law. And this is pretty standard across the US.

undergroundsea -> RE: Feminism (10/30/2009 10:55:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite I took GypsyMambo's use of "humanist" to be a play on words/pun on feminist, rather than a reference to the Humanist philosophy. So, I figured that Zephyr was running with that, whether or not she's also familiar with the other usage of Humanist. "So, if vegetarians eat vegetables, do humanitarians eat people?" I interpreted the use of humanist in a similar spirit. Many humanitarians sometimes do eat people with intentions that are consistent with this trait. But it would be to go off on a tangent to talk about oral sex ;-) Cheers, Sea

MostlySubMale -> RE: Feminism (10/30/2009 3:51:37 PM)
This is timely because Mistress and i have not spoken in about the life of this thread over a dispute on this very subject. Roughly, She says feminism means Women now have equality and i say it's about Women having choices to do whatever they want while men and um's get no choices. Now i'm wondering whether i should admit that i was wrong, as always, and beg forgiveness so that i might be allowed to do as She chooses again. Hope i haven't said anything to offend any "equal" Females, but i probably did and so deserve some put-downs for not being in my place.

Lucienne -> RE: Feminism (10/30/2009 5:53:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MostlySubMale This is timely because Mistress and i have not spoken in about the life of this thread over a dispute on this very subject. Roughly, She says feminism means Women now have equality and i say it's about Women having choices to do whatever they want while men and um's get no choices. Now i'm wondering whether i should admit that i was wrong, as always, and beg forgiveness so that i might be allowed to do as She chooses again. Hope i haven't said anything to offend any "equal" Females, but i probably did and so deserve some put-downs for not being in my place. Your post is kind of incoherent. Roughly speaking, feminism is about more choices for everyone. "Rights" are not seen as a zero sum game, when considered as universal human rights as opposed to privileges gained at the expense of others.

bfslaveboi4u -> RE: Feminism (10/30/2009 9:08:16 PM)
quote: not all feminists are female this male slave agrees, one does not have to be female to be a feminist. only when males and females have equal opportunities, will imho both be free and liberated.

Andalusite -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 7:47:36 AM)
Lucienne, as best as I can tell, MostlySubMale's post translates to: "I'm a bad, bad boy for daring to express any problem with feminism. Won't someone cyber-humiliate me for it so I can wank off?" [:'(]

Lucienne -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 8:35:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite Lucienne, as best as I can tell, MostlySubMale's post translates to: "I'm a bad, bad boy for daring to express any problem with feminism. Won't someone cyber-humiliate me for it so I can wank off?" [:'(] That's pretty much how I read it too. I almost commented on the inappropriateness of it, but decided that any negative comment would only feed into his kink.

xssve -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 8:35:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne quote: ORIGINAL: GoDolphins The point was Lucienne basically said it's a man's responsibility to ask a woman he's had sex with if she's pregnant or not. That would be all right if everyone told the truth, but that isn't always the way it works. Twice I've tried to reply to this and twice the internet has eaten my post. Grrrr. Short version: consent of the father does matter in the current system. A birth mother can get around that by lying to the court during adoption proceedings. She should be dealt with under existing perjury laws. Laws creating an affirmative duty to notify putative or potential fathers of pregnancies are a bad idea. I totally disagree - it takes two to make a baby, and when the baby's born the father will have an obligation of child support, so he should be made aware that he's about to become a parent. Otherwise you'll have every guy ringing up is ex girlfriend every 3-4 weeks, for 9 months after the last time they had sex, asking if she's found out she's pregnant. And I'm sure that would qualify as stalking. I would have to side with Lucienne on this one, based largely on the statistic that the leading cause of death among pregnant women is spousal abuse.

xssve -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 8:44:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama I'm also well aware of what kind of lives they tend to lead after high school and what kind of income they can expect after having participated in this athletic pursuit. Having compared it to the lives that even the mid-level MALE athletes on a football field can enjoy, after having won a four-year university scholarship based on their athletic ability? Sorry, but I see neither equality nor any kind of fairness or value in Football as an institution. The football field is a huge symbolic microcosm of American society as a whole. It tells us everything we need to know about the kind of treatment that equally gifted male and female human beings--the male and female human beings that our society tends to prize the most highly--can expect to receive. The football field tells us that our most prized women are destined to be nameless, unacknowledged and exploited sexual objects. In contrast, the society's most valued men will be recognized by name, lionized as heroes for their accomplishments and feats, publicly acknowledged and praised for their abilities, and given the opportunity to prosper in legitimate, long-lasting ways based on their hard work and training. While I'm sympathetic to your concerns and sensitivities, the world you reference is very different than the world I observe. No one looks at cheerleading as a way out of poverty and into millions. I just think it's terribly off to treat playing football and being a cheerleader as opposites or complimentary. Yes, there are problematic issues with the presentation of cheerleaders. And a lot of that is self-reinforcing. Most of the crap I hear people talk about cheerleaders is when they obviously don't grasp the basics of the game they are supposed to be cheering (football cheerleaders starting a cheer during an offensive drive, etc.). Cheerleading at the highschool, college, and "professional" level (the ladies aren't pros, they're just cheering pros) has a bunch of different issues that we could discuss but I can't summon enough concern to go into it because it just isn't that important. As for football and what it represents, culturally, that is simply a lot bigger than what cheerleading is. In considering the career opportunities of college scholarship athletes, focusing on football is misleading as most of the career high-achievers are in non-revenue earning sports who translate the discipline of their sport into a non-sport career. As for football players, geez LOUISE, if you want to talk about people suffering from exploitation at the hands of the patriarchy... let's talk about NFL players. I don't consider premature aging, a higher degree of conditions resulting from brain damage, the high number of bankruptcies and impoverished lives suffered because men are lionized for smashing into each other on a field and rarely encouraged to develop any other life sustaining skills or long term plan to be the best that society has to offer. It's not that I disagree with you that a football game sends cultural signals about what our society rewards. I just think it's uglier and more complicated than what you represent. Huh, most of the ex gridiron stars I know are either used car salesmen or run forklifts in warehouses - and that includes a a few ex-pros. They are married to aging cheerleaders.

xssve -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 9:19:27 AM)
Actually I lied, in most cases, the cheerleaders have dumped them and married the president of the company.

xssve -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 9:46:04 AM)
On a related subject: Couples who sweep together sleep together Make of it what you will.

estah -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 1:11:21 PM)
Greetings, What verity finds the most interesting about the thread is the talk about females being made into a victim by males, in the experiences of verity (after she was raped) she was placed into the role of a victim by so called feminist, they had the same attitude as most of the feminist on this thread. It was a male who helped verity get out of the role of being a victim and taking control of her life. By taking control of her life and removing the fear caused by the rape she took power out of the hands of the rapist. Also when she was a single mother and alone in a foreign country where she could not speak the language, it was feminist who tried to place her again in the role of victim, telling her she should sue her ex and the father of her child for support and not worry about finding work. It was again a male who helped her step above this role and take control of her life, she learned that she did not need the help of a male who was abusive to support her child and herself. She taught herself a language (without going to school), got herself a job and started to raise her child to be able to stand alone but also in a team or partnership. We can do things alone, but the most fullfilling thing in life is achieving things as a pair or a team, There is nothing more satisfying for verity then to come home, prepare a meal and clean the house, she cannot afford anyone to do this for her, but she has found that the greatest satisfaction comes from doing things for yourself and those you care about and doing them well. If verity could afford to be a stay home mother, there is nothing in the world that she would love more. Feminism should be about equality not about females being better then males. verity is female, verity is a mother, verity is a slave and verity is proud of who she is. Power to those who know who they are and do not need anyone to tell them otherwise. verity does not see money as being the reward in life, the most important things are not material. verity wishes you well.

estah -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 1:46:19 PM)
Greetings Mistress LaTigress, Well too bad. You cannot have the right to things like maternity leave and give the father the same rights. Fair is fair. And descrimination is descrimination. Whether you like it or not. With this quote you are quiet wrong, in Germany it is allowed for parents to have 12 months parent time, it makes no difference if it is the father or mother, if you are single you get 14 months (regardless of your sex), if the seond part in a partnership also takes leave a further 2 months is added to the 12 months. This is an example of several laws that have equality between males and females in Germany in the area of child raising and keeping the house. If a male or female stop studing or break off an apprenticeship to keep the home for the other partner while they work, should they seperate the partner who worked in that time is responsible for the upkeep of the partner who stayed home for a certain amount of time. These laws are regardless of you are married or de facto, or if you are male or femal. There are more examples of countries where such laws are in place, including in the USA. If you take the time to do research into the various laws you will find that such laws are gaining more acceptance. On a general note, verity is of the opinion it is the right of a father to know that he is going to become a father and to have a say in an abortion. verity faced the problem of being pregnant and single, still she informed the father and everything has been discussed, the father was for an abortion as was verity, but due to her belief in the right to life she did not go through with it. The father was not overly happy but stood by verity and the child (we are not together today, but the father is always there for the child when he is needed). You do not know what sort of parent a person will make until they become a parent, so verity believes that men have a right to be involved in such things as the decision to abort, the final decision will always be in the hands of the female. verity has also known women who wanted to have an abortion, verity has suggested to them they talk to the fathers about it...in 7 of the 8 times, the mother brought the child into the world and became a weekend mother, leaving the child to be raised by the father. In the 8th case the woman gave birth to the child and ended up happily married to the father (again), they have now been together for 9 years and counting (going strong) and have three healthy happy children. Adoption and the father taking care of the child should not always be overlooked just because the female has the right to have an abortion. verity P.S. verity is only on page 13 and still catching up.

estah -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 3:01:09 PM)
Greetings Shakti, You are extremely dangerous to females as a whole. It is bad for a female to be submissive and a male to be dominant, but perfectly of for females to be dominant and males to be submissive. Where is the equality in that?????????? Just had a look at your profile. Your words are: I have a wonderful submissive at the moment and I am not looking for others. verity

GoDolphins -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 3:02:01 PM)
I will say this, for the feminists, or anyone else for that matter, who are on here and think fathers don't deserve to have access to their child and be a parent, I hope to hell you aren't out complaining about how women end up doing more childcare than men, considering you're supporting keeping fathers away from their kids.

SnowRanger -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 4:56:16 PM)
Boy am I confused... Patenity leave... Maternity leave... Cheerleaders exploitated... Cheerleaders not exploitated... Women enjoying football... Wiomen not enjoying football... Unicorns... Wait, Unicorns? To hold the door or not hold the door?.. (in the vanilla world)... That is the question!

ShaktiSama -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 5:46:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: estah Greetings Shakti, You are extremely dangerous to females as a whole. It is bad for a female to be submissive and a male to be dominant, but perfectly of for females to be dominant and males to be submissive. Where is the equality in that?????????? Just had a look at your profile. Your words are: I have a wonderful submissive at the moment and I am not looking for others. verity Since you insist on harrassing me in public as well as in private, I will answer you in public as well as in private. Short answer: the idea that I am more dangerous to women than people like you, who BLAME FEMINISM and FEMINISTS for your "victimhood" when ONE MAN RAPES YOU and ANOTHER MAN ABANDONS YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN is really "Beyond the Valley of the Imbeciles" moronic. You and female submissives like you are every bit as frightening and disgusting in your way as a Moony who tries to kidnap people at the airport to be brainwashed to serve the Reverend. No, I'm sorry, the rest of us are never going to magically realize how "dangerous" and "wrong" it is for us to have some OPTION as to whether we spend a life in service to men. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I have no issue with people who choose to submit to men in their personal lives. But I am not going to be forced to live in a world modeled on their bedrooms. And that's non-negotiable. No amount of unblinking pie-eyed cultists with frozen rictus smiles of "joy" on their faces are going to change my mind. shiver Jeeeezily Christ. You people just get creepier each and every day.

Lucienne -> RE: Feminism (10/31/2009 6:59:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SnowRanger To hold the door or not hold the door?.. (in the vanilla world)... That is the question! The answer is simple. Hold the door for anyone within 3 seconds of approaching. Hold it from the inside, or the outside, just don't stare at the person you are holding it for and no one will be offended. It's not the holding that freaks women out, it's the staring at the woman while displaying a self-satisfied smirk suggesting you expect a prize for holding the door. See? Easy! I hold doors for people all the time and I've never heard more than a "thank you."

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