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ShaktiSama -> RE: Feminism (11/4/2009 8:06:39 PM)
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ORIGINAL: Elisabella
Sexual exploitation does have real legal meaning.
It also has real social meaning. Might want to try and wrap your head around that some time.
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I'm not talking about theoretically what they would choose. I'm talking about what they DO choose.
Real choices are not those which heavily weighted. Especially when you offer heavily weighted options to children.
"Hi kids! You can choose Option A, and you will get lots of positive attention, school funding, high social status, and will be given special privileges and an artificially elevated social position among your peers! Or you can choose...I dunno. We're not really going to bother to present any other choice, but you'll stumble onto I'm sure while you wander as a pariah in the wilderness."
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Why do you assume we don't have real choices to make?
I am dubious about the idea that anyone who needs a parental permission slip is making a "real choice" in the same way that emancipated adults do. I am also extremely dubious that the girls who "freely choose" to dress up in these sexually exploitive costumes are really clear on what the long-term consequences and ramifications of the choice will be.
In my experience, many girls are taught to trade on their looks and function as exhibitionists very young in order to receive parental and societal approval. They never think about money or their futures until they suddenly round a corner and find themselves as adults, without resources or education or marketable skills, in a world that doesn't particularly think that cheerleaders should get paid.
Then they start thinking about money a WHOLE lot, and they try to find ways to trade the one thing they've ever had--their bodies and the manipulative display thereof--for money.
Then everybody gets to call them whores, look down on them, and beat them up and leave them in dumpsters. What fun! What a wonderful world!
Can't imagine why I might see anything wrong with this. It's ever so wholesome and free!
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Please show me one single educational facility where cheerleading is mandated. Please.
At all of them where it exists. The school pays for these activities, gives these students special privileges, approves their uniforms, forces all the other students to gather at assemblies and watch them perform and APPLAUD their performances, etc..
If you don't understand what the word "mandate" means in this context, perhaps you should spend more time with a dictionary and less time harassing feminists on the Internet. [;)]
I do not agree that all school activities for girls are equally mandated or approved/lauded by the school OR by society at large. There are billions upon billions of dollars of pressure placed on making women and girls obsess about their appearance and want to be "pretty" in our culture. The schools actively collude in a conspiracy to make everything female an ignorant, uneducated, poor, but very prettily-painted human target.
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That's actually really interesting that we have so much in common. I really do wonder if it's a generational thing, or living in different parts of the country, because up until I was 23 or so I thought there was something wrong with me for feeling the way I do, for wanting the role that I take, because all my social influences said there was.
I wonder if there's any sort of happy medium to take that would lead to neither of us feeling ostracized or freakish.
Not sure. I do not think society in general will ever fully accept a BDSM orientation of either type for women, although most female dominants and male submissives will tell you that this dynamic is far less socially accepted than the reversed/traditional set-up.
This being said, I do not mistake my BDSM orientation for my resistance to patriarchy as a social and political model. Too many submissive women I have known have been ardent feminists. They enjoyed being dominated by ONE SPECIAL MAN, not by ALL MALE HUMANS ON THE PLANET because Big Brother says they are inferior.
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I don't think the teachers cheer and clap when a cheerleader kisses a football player.
No, because that would be a real individual choice on her part, and a real expression of her personal sexuality.
They also REALLY wouldn't like it if she was kissing a female basketball player, I imagine, although I would personally love to see that myself.
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You're confusing genuine sexual behaviour with an activity that you perceive to be sexual in nature. I know that a lot of teachers would have applauded students who went out to protest Prop 8 in California. Maybe they should be silenced as well?
Lol. Your persistant attempts to mix apples and oranges are amusing, but useless. Cheerleading is no more a real expression of "free choice" or "free speech" than running a high school newspaper. The leash is tight and it's the authorities who hold it. You're very very free! To be exactly what they say you ought to be, to say exactly what they find unthreatening and harmless, etc.. The only people who don't feel the leash are those too stupid or weak to strain against it.
As for your insistence that the uniforms are not sexual--bullshit. The reason your friends wanted to wear them on Fridays is that wearing it was a way around all other school regulations that control inappropriate exposure. I do not and will never agree that the idea that exposing skin is a sexual gesture in this society is something I am "making up" or a product of my "sick perception of children".
Some clothing is deliberately sexually provocative. Children can be dressed in sexually provocative clothing at any age. The fact that I recognize the clothing and the "dance" routines the kids do as intentionally provocative does not mean that I consider this an excuse to attack them.
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Well that's a relief at least. Feel free to dislike it all you want.
You might have noticed that I do.
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I'm sorry, which viewpoint of mine have I tried to enact into law?
You run an anti-feminist website. Blogging is political action in the modern world. This is not "irrelevant snark". You are actively working to rescind women's rights and obstruct their attempts to achieve equality.
You are an evil being.
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I also do not run an "anti-cheerleading" website the way you run an "anti-feminist" website. I have strong views on the subject, to be sure, but there is a time and place for such things.
Such as collarme.com?
Hmmm. Yes, I think it's appropriate for a female dominant feminist to discuss feminist viewpoints which are specifically requested in a thread entitled "Feminism" on a femdom forum.
Call me crazy, but I think that might just be the time and place.
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26 pages would suggest otherwise.
On the contrary. I am pro-feminist. The fact that I do not actively seek out ways to deprive other people of choices does not mean that I am not willing to articulate my beliefs and views when my views are specifically requested--or demonized publicly by people who are at best ignorant and at worst actively evil.
That would be the difference between me and, say, an anti-feminist troll who freely admits that she offends other people deliberately at every opportunity, and works daily to make the world a stupider, more unjust, more racist and sexist place.
Not that I'm pointing any fingers.
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