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Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 8:51:08 PM

anony1

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Joined: 10/13/2009
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I am a new Daddy of 7 months. However I've always had relationships as I do with my current babygirl just without the label. I wanted to post on here for feed back to my situation. Even being a Daddy i do not know everything and am always gearing to learn more about the lifestyle. In the beginning of my relationship till present day there has always been friction as far as the behavior of my babygirl. I am very open for my other to discuss there emotions and feeling in general. I am having problems with my babygirl as far as consistent respect. There have been a few times where she has acted out physically and/or put her hand on me, taken my keys, tried to keep me in our home when needed to take a drive and let things cool off. I myself feel the relationship should never go in that direction when fighting/arguing. I am admit no one is perfect and i have dealt with these fits of rage of her's very well. It just seems as time goes on i am not as willing to do so. She has mental health problems (bi-polar)and most often will resort to bringing that up during an apology. She didn't have health insurance i guided her and helped her obtain it. I am more of the cook, i make sure she has dinner/lunch. i make visits to her work when in town 2-4 times a month to spend her lunch with her. i take care of all of the bills, shopping, budget. i buy her presents for occasions or for no reason at all. I've spent numerous(4 or more) times taking her to the ER in the last 3 months. Taking care of her when she is released.
She is very playful and often can take things too far. When i am playful with her a lot of the time she doesn't like it and becomes defensive. She will say obscene things to me that i NEVER imagined a babygirl should do.
Is this normal behavior? Of course a lot of people post the perfectness of their relationships because really who wants to put down what they have. I am really trying to be open minded about all of this with forgiveness when asked. I just am really out of things to do and am in need of some healthy advice from people who have been in my shoes.... Thank you!

Post #: 1

RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 9:01:06 PM

Aylee

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Have you actually EVER been around a real live UM?

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 9:12:08 PM

littlewonder

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Sounds like typical child behavior.

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 9:18:04 PM

ShaharThorne

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I suggest attending a bi-polar family and friends support group. It takes a strong person to deal with bi-polar (but then the sex is great).

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 9:45:46 PM

sweetsub1957

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaharThorne

I suggest attending a bi-polar family and friends support group. It takes a strong person to deal with bi-polar (but then the sex is great).

I would add to this, is she taking bi-polar meds? And if she is, is she taking them consistently and as prescribed? I'm bipolar, and that's a must.
As far as the acting out goes, if I were to have done those things, my butt would've been spanked liberally.

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 10:02:05 PM

DarkSteven

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I just want to say that your capacity for drama exceeds what mine would be.

Why ask if it's normal? The correct question is, is this something you can deal with?

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 10:03:17 PM

ShaharThorne

Posts: 11071
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaharThorne

I suggest attending a bi-polar family and friends support group. It takes a strong person to deal with bi-polar (but then the sex is great).

I would add to this, is she taking bi-polar meds? And if she is, is she taking them consistently and as prescribed? I'm bipolar, and that's a must.
As far as the acting out goes, if I were to have done those things, my butt would've been spanked liberally.

I knew I was forgetting something. I have to take my meds as well! Thanks sweetsub!

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Post #: 7

RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 10:22:24 PM

NihilusZero

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Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I just want to say that your capacity for drama exceeds what mine would be.

Why ask if it's normal? The correct question is, is this something you can deal with?

10 points.

OP,

Consider the propensity for bi-polar disorder to be paraded around the self-diagnosis block like ADD has been in recent years when considering what you're dealing with. If she has been seeking out medications to deal with her issues (as should be the case if a clinical diagnosis has been made), are they functioning at all? Is she going to the ER for reasons other than psychological issues?

It's a bit disturbing to hear that there is a sense of self-victimization about the supposed problem when, as you mention, she drags it out into the spotlight as an alibi for when she has misbehaved.

I would suggest that you ignore reactions (here or through other mediums) that would attempt to drop a guilt-trip on your front steps, forcing you to accept a relationship vastly different than what you'd want just because of some unspoken responsibility you are told you must have to someone (in a relationship sense) just because of supposed issues they are dealing with.

That's why DarkSteven makes the key point: the only pertinent question is whether you wish to deal with the baggage being in a relationship with her entails.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 10/13/2009 10:23:40 PM >

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 10:29:31 PM

Elipsis

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Dealing with mental disorders that you yourself don't have is often very difficult because you have to deal with a behavior that is completely foreign and illogical to you.

As has already been touched on, if you know that you're dealing with someone who has bi-polar disorder than you should also already know that such behavior is not normal.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 9

RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 10:34:35 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
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Who's domming who?

She's acting out because you let her. She's asking for limits, and you're not setting them or enforcing them properly. The more you let her do this and get away with it, the less and less safe she'll feel, and the more she'll act out in ever more desperate attempts to find your limits. In a never ending, escalating cycle.

This is why clueless parents end up with bratty, out-of- control kids. The kids are seeking safety, boundaries and limits. They are seeking the reasurrance that a parent is in fact in charge. But they're getting just the opposite message, from the clueless parents' lack of response, or innapropriate response. And it troubles them deeply. So they continue to spiral out of control, looking for the safety they crave.

I'd pack all her shit and put it out in the front yard and tell her she's leaving now, unless she decides to be obedient. Then sit down out there with her and make her memorize your rules. You shouldn't need more than eight or ten, tops. (I have six, for my slaveboy.) When she has them memorized and promises you she'll obey them willingly, you help her bring her stuff back in. You don't need to have a reward/punishment dynamic. As long as she knows that a pattern of willful disobedience will be cause for her release, she'll be good... If she wants to. If she doesn't, you really don't need a disobedient girl, who takes you for granted.

Stop letting her dom you. Take control.

Edited to add: there are good meds for bi-polar, and with that and therapy, it can be managed well. Don't buy into it as an excuse for bad behavior.

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 10/13/2009 10:39:19 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 10:35:49 PM

porcelaine

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Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: anony1

Is this normal behavior? Of course a lot of people post the perfectness of their relationships because really who wants to put down what they have. I am really trying to be open minded about all of this with forgiveness when asked. I just am really out of things to do and am in need of some healthy advice from people who have been in my shoes.

i believe it depends on the extent of her condition and her willingess to forgo victimization and stop defining herself by the illness. it becomes a handicap and a mental crutch which serves her well as you've seen. i have a friend that did the same, but we weren't as kind as you. she finally got her act together and has been medication free for years. she knows her triggers and functions like an adult should. i don't feel that's the route for everyone, but i respect her desire to avoid medication dependence. i am the same. in her case it wasn't making things better and she was inconsistent in taking them.

you've been asked to weigh the gravity of your situation and to be realistic if this is something you can and are willing to handle. it can be a long road and she may never embrace the standard of behavior that you find acceptable. everyone has their breaking point and boundaries and i heartily suggest you find yours. if a change in status is warranted, don't beat yourself up or allow emotional blackmail or any other antics to convince you otherwise. we each have the right to have functioning relationships with two functioning parties. i would gather if you wanted to parent an adult you'd have probably chosen a better behaved one. best of luck.

porcelaine

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Post #: 11

RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/13/2009 11:15:54 PM

DemonKia

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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FR, after read thru

Okay, I don't know much about the specific 'parent' / 'child' dynamic within a BDSM context, & I don't know much about bi-polar, but I do know parenting. I raised 3 offspring. & what's relevant tor this thread's topic is the use of the word 'no' .. . . .

Children both love the appropriate, consistent, & loving use of the word 'no', & they feel duty bound to resist & test it. They wanna know if it's secure. If it's a real boundary. & they're kids, they don't wanna jus' go along with what adults say, they wanna rebel & 'have fun' & 'feel free' & wild & explore & not think about risks & being boring & grown up & old & serious . .. .

& firm, consistently enforced 'nos' that they can understand & respect deep down, those can make children feel safe & secure & taken care of & loved . . . . . & that's when they flourish . . . . . In my not so humble, over-generalized opinion . . . .. . .

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/14/2009 12:03:08 AM

Sunnyfey

Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: anony1

I am a new Daddy of 7 months. However I've always had relationships as I do with my current babygirl just without the label. I wanted to post on here for feed back to my situation. Even being a Daddy i do not know everything and am always gearing to learn more about the lifestyle. In the beginning of my relationship till present day there has always been friction as far as the behavior of my babygirl. I am very open for my other to discuss there emotions and feeling in general. I am having problems with my babygirl as far as consistent respect. There have been a few times where she has acted out physically and/or put her hand on me, taken my keys, tried to keep me in our home when needed to take a drive and let things cool off. I myself feel the relationship should never go in that direction when fighting/arguing. I am admit no one is perfect and i have dealt with these fits of rage of her's very well. It just seems as time goes on i am not as willing to do so. She has mental health problems (bi-polar)and most often will resort to bringing that up during an apology. She didn't have health insurance i guided her and helped her obtain it. I am more of the cook, i make sure she has dinner/lunch. i make visits to her work when in town 2-4 times a month to spend her lunch with her. i take care of all of the bills, shopping, budget. i buy her presents for occasions or for no reason at all. I've spent numerous(4 or more) times taking her to the ER in the last 3 months. Taking care of her when she is released.
She is very playful and often can take things too far. When i am playful with her a lot of the time she doesn't like it and becomes defensive. She will say obscene things to me that i NEVER imagined a babygirl should do.
Is this normal behavior? Of course a lot of people post the perfectness of their relationships because really who wants to put down what they have. I am really trying to be open minded about all of this with forgiveness when asked. I just am really out of things to do and am in need of some healthy advice from people who have been in my shoes.... Thank you!

This is an emotionally abusive woman. It wont get better, not with out meds and a LOT of therapy. You either do that and force her to go it, or leave and find someone who's more mentally balanced.

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/14/2009 5:39:55 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
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Having a bipolar II offspring, these behaviors are typical during times of high stress. If however she is exhibiting this on a regular basis, then either her medication is not yet stable, or she is on the wrong meds, plus she is not in a therapy setting to help her.

You mention her just recently getting health insurance and medication. It took over two years of trying different medications and dosages for my daughter to find an optimum med and dosage. Sounds like she isn't on what she ought to be on, nor at the high enough dosage.

Is she in therapy as well? Because prior to having health insurance, she learned incorrect methods of self calming and now needs to unlearn them.

But if you don't want to deal with this, if you aren't prepared to deal with this for quite some time to come, then you should leave now. Because the longer you are in her life, the harder it will be for her to cope when you do go.

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/14/2009 6:30:35 AM

GraciousLady

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Seems to me her health concerns should be the first order of business not your lifestyle. Nothing is going to go right until she is stable.

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/14/2009 6:44:29 AM

oceanwyndsLoves

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To the OP
I would like to give you another view from a bipolar. I was diagnosed with bipolar many years ago. In my marriage I tried to pull that card out, oh I am bipolar and can't help it, but late hubby would never accept that. I am glad he didn't. Being bipolar doesnt give a person a license to act the way your submissive is to you. If you accept this as a reasonable excuse, then You are just feeding her need to not own up to her actions. In my life I have gravitated towards men that would not accept less from me, or embrace bipolar as an excuse to bad behavior. This is one thing I done well in picking men to be a part of my life. Though my marriage was vanilla, hubby was dominant in personality and gave me reason to want to please him in general. I wanted him to be proud of me, and I needed to be proud of myself. Ex Sir and present Sir both would not tolerate me using my condition as an excuse to behave poorly.

Many people have a chemical imbalance and many believe it is their license to not be all they can be. They let themselves manipulate others or be manipulated because the name of their illness. Another door was open for me and I do thank God for that. My Dr never treated me as a manic depressive mentally. Yes I was put on meds, but he told me to not buy into the label, so I didn't. Late hubby never bought into the label and nor ex Sir or Sir. This has been my blessing and gift from God. I am not a victim of bipolar and it is not my easy ticket out for not being responsible for my actions.

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/14/2009 9:57:21 AM

lucylucy

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To build on what oceanwyndsLoves said, I, too am bipolar and used it as an excuse for bad behavior in my marriage now and then. In my relationship with my boyfriend, I haven’t once used it as an excuse because I just know he won’t let me get away with it. He has made it clear that he doesn’t tolerate excuses in anyone (including himself), so I don’t make excuses. Ever. Pretty simple.

I use excuses to get myself out of something (trouble, guilt, responsibility), but using an excuse with my boyfriend would just get me deeper into trouble, etc.

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Post #: 17

RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/14/2009 11:05:32 AM

kiwisub12

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Since she is employeed i am guessing she doesn't act out at work. The average work place tolerance for deviation from acceptable behaviour is zero - as in , you're fired!

Obviously she has some self control, or she would have been fired long ago - just not with you. You have to ask yourself why not with you. Work places have clearly defined limits, and consequences.

Do you? and if you do, do you enforce the consequences.

I notice quite a bit that people with issues don't have issues at work. The consequences of their actions at work are severe enough, they actually manage to control themselves. Amazing.

Obviously it is a different dynamic, but self control is self control and should bleed over.

< Message edited by kiwisub12 -- 10/14/2009 11:06:47 AM >

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RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/14/2009 11:39:56 AM

AnnaOfAramis

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Greeting Sir,

I don't know anything about bi-polar, so that could change a lot, especially with meds and things. But, I am trained to deal with behavior issues in autistic kids. Basically, it sounds to me like what she gets out of these outbursts is attention. What usually immediately happens right after she has an outburst? What is your usual response? If you shout at her, spank her, anything which gives her the attention, you are rewarding her bad behavior by giving her the attention she seeks EVEN IF IT SEEMS LIKE A PUNISHMENT. When I have had clients who have a behavior we are trying to decrease (for example a kid who cries constantly to get what he wants) we systematically do not make any response whatsoever when that behavior occurs. The instant it ceases, is when we give the attention. IE Kid crying; we turn our face away and do not look at the child or say anything until he stops. When he has been quiet for more than about 3 - 5 seconds, we turn to him and say something like "that's being quiet" with a smile on our face and then we engage with him again. It takes consistency. If we were to give in, we would only "shape the behavior up" and make it worse. EG kid tantrums in candy aisle , we try to be good and not give in, so in a fit of fury that what used to work isn't anymore, she sweeps all the candy off the shelf. Parent now really embarrassed gives in, hissing "fine, here have a candy bar" just so the kid will stop. Now the kid has learned that sweeping the candy onto the floor works and will do it again next time, so the behavior has been made worse. Note the above example is called an "extinction burst"- in other words if you ignore a behavior long enough to extinguish it, just before it is extinguished there will be a burst of much worse behavior to try and provoke a response from you. It is crucial to ignore this. So basically, ignore the behavior you don't want (just the behavior not the person), reward the behavior you do want, and watch out for those extinction bursts. But as i said, I have no idea how bipolar and meds fits in here, so be sure to cover that base with her doctors too.

Good luck and well wishes Sir,
anna

< Message edited by AnnaOfAramis -- 10/14/2009 11:49:10 AM >

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Post #: 19

RE: Disobedient subs/babygirls - 10/14/2009 1:30:49 PM

lovingpet

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A few things jump out from the OP. First and foremost, do you believe yourself able and willing to deal with a person who has a mental illness? It is a serious consideration. I am not at all saying that it is a trait that has to be viewed as negative, but it is something that adds special stressors to a relationship, like any other kind of illness. Not everyone is cut out for it and that's okay. It doesn't make you a bad person if it is not within your ability to handle this effectively and appropriately. It wouldn't make you any better if you could either. It is just an area where the two of you will mesh or not.

I was confused. Are you paying her bills for her or just managing things? If you are managing things, that may be appropriate or needed. If you are paying for everything, why not either commit or let her stand on her own two feet when it comes to financial matters? Just a few points of clarification I'd appreciate.

I cannot condone laying hands on anyone in a fit of anger. I understand that she may not be totally capable of controlling that, but it is a serious thing. This is different from something in a D/s dynamic. Are you able to live with this behavior or do you think you are able to get it under control? If neither are the case, then you've a big problem on your hands.

On the medical side of things, is she seeing a therapist or just downing pills? Therapy is an essential part of good management of her condition. Further, it often takes a long time to find the right medication and dosage for an individual, or a combo that is effective. It is a lot of trial and error and even more ups and downs than usual while it is going on. Have they been able to come up with an effective treatment plan or are they still working at it? Even if she has had coverage and started treatment immediately upon meeting you 7 months ago, it could still be in flux. Can you tough it out until they have things better controlled if that is the case?

Okay so a lot more quesitons than answers, but that is what these early stages of a relationship are all about. It is easier to fix a problem now while it is less complicated than it is down the road when there becomes a lot more at stake. All my best!

lovingpet

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