RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year

RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 4:53:50 PM)
The treasury was alot of what went wrong with the bailout.

servantforuse -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 4:56:37 PM)
It is just an average of 30 different stocks. It is usually a pretty good indicator os where everything else is in the economy.

Mercnbeth -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 5:00:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Hasnt anyone who is against the bailout read anything on the state of the US banks at the time. It is incredible to think people still disagree with the bailout. Ironically no one has mentioned the treasury gains from the bailout. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/31/business/main5276208.shtml From the source provided:The U.S. government has hauled in about $4 billion in profits from large banks that have repaid their obligations from last year's federal bailout, The New York Times reported Sunday Wouldn't that directly contradict that the assets were/are 'valueless'? This part is too easy... If the US government "hauled in about $4 Billion" what was the real value of those assets? Or did the US government get efficient while I wasn't paying attention?

rikigrl -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 5:05:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Just in case there is any doubt. I was, am, and will ever be against any bail out and reward for failure. Unless you can profit directly from said bailouts apparently.... quote: Although these bail outs served me well, quote: Hey, being a 'bottom line' kind a guy - I put my money where my opinion was and it's worked out great.

slvemike4u -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 5:12:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse The Dow is up today because of the financials and the banks. Lets give Bush the credit for saving the banks with his stimulus over a year ago. So its allowable to reference Bush concerning today's headlines.....as long as we are praising him? Lay any of the blame at his doorstep and we get told to move along and let it go......make up your damm minds please.

Mercnbeth -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 5:20:41 PM)
quote: Unless you can profit directly from said bailouts apparently.... Why do you think I should be embarrassed by my results? I profit from a LOT of peoples mistakes; even those I didn't cause and didn't want see occur. Sometimes it turns out that I profit from decisions people make whom I have tried to convince not to make them. You have to 'project out' and take the emotions out of the equation. You think I'm the only one doing so? This is th result of government action not mine. It was one supported by many on CM as well as the general public, Congress, and, if you believe them - the Administration; without consideration of the consequences. For instance the the consequence of executives getting bonuses. That wasn't my idea of a good use of tax money - but those who supported it must have either thought it was a good thing or didn't make an informed decision. I made my decisions after the fact. After my letters and phone calls to my "representatives" went unheard. I felt I was making an informed decision in doing so. Don't get angry or upset at me for doing so; or pointing out reality. Now - if you want to change it - join me in voting out every incumbant on the ballot in November. If you like these results and want to keep the status quo - reelect your representative because he/she is "different". However, don't blame me when I back up my expectations and they turn out to be accurate.

servantforuse -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 5:21:14 PM)
Lay all of the blame you want to. But it's hard to explain why an Obama stimulus package helped the economy and not mention that Bush did the first one. Obama just expanded it.

slvemike4u -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 5:23:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse Lay all of the blame you want to. But it's hard to explain why an Obama stimulus package helped the economy and not mention that Bush did the first one. Obama just expanded it. Well that sort of throws out the whole "road to socialism" argument....after all it was Bush who started down this road.....

servantforuse -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 5:26:03 PM)
This thread has nothing to do with socialism. Personally I didn't agree with either bailout. Let the strong survive.

slvemike4u -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 5:33:21 PM)
Well the flip side of that is "let the weak perish"....now personally I have no great love for Banks and Wall Street investment firms.....but people are ultimately the ones who suffer....

rikigrl -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 6:04:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Unless you can profit directly from said bailouts apparently.... Why do you think I should be embarrassed by my results? I profit from a LOT of peoples mistakes; even those I didn't cause and didn't want see occur. Sometimes it turns out that I profit from decisions people make whom I have tried to convince not to make them. You have to 'project out' and take the emotions out of the equation. You think I'm the only one doing so? This is th result of government action not mine. It was one supported by many on CM as well as the general public, Congress, and, if you believe them - the Administration; without consideration of the consequences. For instance the the consequence of executives getting bonuses. That wasn't my idea of a good use of tax money - but those who supported it must have either thought it was a good thing or didn't make an informed decision. I made my decisions after the fact. After my letters and phone calls to my "representatives" went unheard. I felt I was making an informed decision in doing so. Don't get angry or upset at me for doing so; or pointing out reality. Now - if you want to change it - join me in voting out every incumbant on the ballot in November. If you like these results and want to keep the status quo - reelect your representative because he/she is "different". However, don't blame me when I back up my expectations and they turn out to be accurate. i don't expect you to be embarrassed by your profits, expressing your delight in your "pragmatism" gives the impression that you would dance with glee had the financial sector been allowed to fail and you had the market on tarps and cardboard boxes cornered (people have to live somewhere after all) and you're a "bottom line" kinda guy. Also, anger is not the emotion i feel for you.

tazzygirl -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 6:10:11 PM)
i have to echo that. anger isnt want i feel. smiles

Fellow -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 6:12:57 PM)
quote: Hasnt anyone who is against the bailout read anything on the state of the US banks at the time. It is incredible to think people still disagree with the bailout. Ironically no one has mentioned the treasury gains from the bailout. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/31/business/main5276208.shtml I am still in the camp who believe the bailouts were wrong in term economic policy. Such a short period of time does not really give any answers about success. I see it as an attempt to cheat the laws of economics (and it can be done only temporarily). If you read what the "cheerleader" article says: "The U.S. government has hauled in about $4 billion in profits from large banks that have repaid their obligations from last year's federal bailout, The New York Times reported Sunday. " How much was the total bailout and how does it compare to 4 bln.?

servantforuse -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 6:14:15 PM)
I am also not embarrassed by the money I made at AT&T after 33 years there. That is why I went to work every day ( outside in Wisconsin winters ) . To make money.

MzMia -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 6:14:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Well the flip side of that is "let the weak perish"....now personally I have no great love for Banks and Wall Street investment firms.....but people are ultimately the ones who suffer.... Often, in life the truth or what is right, is very, very complicated. Do I think we needed the bailouts? Absolutely! Do I agree with every single bail out? Of course not. I believe that we needed the bailouts, BUT that won't stop a few situations from occurring that will eventually happen if/when the government steps back or is unable to control the outcome. Life is not black or white, it is grey. I am glad the DJ is up, but with unemployment over 10%, foreclosures still high and predicted to go up, and many working people struggling to be able to pay their bills, most people have not "recovered", the average Joe Citizen is still in a hole and trying to crawl the hell out of it. Many of us {myself included}, are primarily only buying what we need or have to buy. Most people {myself included} do not feel encouraged by the DJ rising to over 10,000 today, and very few people probably feel optomistic about it. I am not on one side or the other side {whatever the sides are}. President Obama did not create this mess, and it certainly is not his fault. I believe that President Obama is doing the best that he can, and wants to do the best he can for our country. Unfortunately, we have not hit bottom yet and I do believe that a "bottom" is coming. There are many sides to what is going on, and the answer is far from simple or easy. At the end of the day, I hope we all want the best for America and the rest of the world. What happens here in America, good or bad, certainly has a ripple effect throughout the world.

tazzygirl -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 6:25:59 PM)
nor should you be. money earned should always be proudly held.

tazzygirl -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 6:28:09 PM)
quote: At the end of the day, I hope we all want the best for America and the rest of the world. What happens here in America, good or bad, certainly has a ripple effect throughout the world. They dont see that, Mia. Nor do they wish to believe. You are talking to men who know all there is to know about finance. ~chuckles~ and i know a bit about wine in the old country.

rikigrl -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/14/2009 8:39:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: At the end of the day, I hope we all want the best for America and the rest of the world. What happens here in America, good or bad, certainly has a ripple effect throughout the world. They dont see that, Mia. Nor do they wish to believe. You are talking to men who know all there is to know about finance. ~chuckles~ and i know a bit about wine in the old country. The world would be so much the better if it were a matriarchal society, haven't the males caused enough problems for this planet?

Politesub53 -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/15/2009 12:49:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Hasnt anyone who is against the bailout read anything on the state of the US banks at the time. It is incredible to think people still disagree with the bailout. Ironically no one has mentioned the treasury gains from the bailout. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/31/business/main5276208.shtml From the source provided:The U.S. government has hauled in about $4 billion in profits from large banks that have repaid their obligations from last year's federal bailout, The New York Times reported Sunday Wouldn't that directly contradict that the assets were/are 'valueless'? This part is too easy... If the US government "hauled in about $4 Billion" what was the real value of those assets? Or did the US government get efficient while I wasn't paying attention? Your post does nothing to disprove the banks were on the verge of collapse, not just weeks away but hours away. No bailouts equals no assets. You previously said this: quote: Whether there would or wouldn't have been more unemployed is speculation. Right now, with the bail outs - reality is the US is experiencing the highest unemployment in a generation. We don't know what would have occurred, who would have merged with whom, what the resulting employment figures would be. "What if..." is is the only response when "what is..." sucks huh This also applies to your claims about what would have happened without a bailout. The whole situation was not about saving one bank or one car manufacturer, it was about saving the whole US economy from collapse and the catastrophe that would have followed. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8569 Edited to fix quotes

Mercnbeth -> RE: DJ industrials pass 10,000 for 1st time in a year (10/15/2009 7:10:08 AM)
quote: Your post does nothing to disprove the banks were on the verge of collapse, not just weeks away but hours away. No bailouts equals no assets. No, you took care of that, with a reference. As you point out there were valuable assets. Your "hours away" comes from the same sources that said if there would be another "catastrophe" if the health care bill wasn't passed by August 1st. Where's that? You have faith in those sources I don't. However as the article you posted pointed out; these were not all bad assets. The US government managed to haul in about $4 Billion. Based on that reality, not a "what if..."; imagine how much someone already in the industry would have made an paid for those same assets? More to my point, how much would another bank have paid for the opportunity. Because Congress and the Administration had a priority on making executive bonuses pay out - it had to go down as it did. quote: You previously said this: quote: Whether there would or wouldn't have been more unemployed is speculation. Right now, with the bail outs - reality is the US is experiencing the highest unemployment in a generation. We don't know what would have occurred, who would have merged with whom, what the resulting employment figures would be. "What if..." is is the only response when "what is..." sucks huh This also applies to your claims about what would have happened without a bailout. Except since the US government reported a $4 Billion haul this isn't a what if about there being value. This is why did the US government have to take it over and use tax money in the first place? Is there any benefit if the US government is foreclosing and making these profits through liquidation instead of a Company? No, but there is detriment. If the liquidation was done through the private sector, the government would have made money in tax and fee revenue instead of spending tax money for going through the foreclosure and liquidation process. According to this, business is booming. Despite concerted government-led and lender-supported efforts to prevent foreclosures, the number of filings hit a record high in the third quarter, according to a report issued Thursday."They were the worst three months of all time," said Rick Sharga, spokesman for RealtyTrac, an online marketer of foreclosed homes.During that time, 937,840 homes received a foreclosure letter -- whether a default notice, auction notice or bank repossession, the RealtyTrac report said. That means one in every 136 U.S. homes were in foreclosure, which is a 5% increase from the second quarter and a 23% jump over the third quarter of 2008. The US government may not have all these, but I'm sure they'll improve on that $4 Billion YTD figure. That's not a "what if..." it's a "what is...". Of course the good news is - that may further benefit the Stock Market. YEAH! Keep those results coming - REELECT CONGRESS!

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