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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/29/2009 4:24:22 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What your definition entails is a lable. being a christian, jew, muslim, ect, isnt about wearing a lable. For example, christians believe in following the 10 commandments. Pretty clear cut rules there. I dont recall wiggle room in most, if any of them. I can proclaim i am born again, a christian, convince others through words that i have given my life over to the Lord.... yet, if my actions speak otherwise, am i telling the truth? And here we come to another crux... truth.


I would have to disagree with you on this one. I think Fred Phelps is one of the most evil people I have ever heard of, but I also believe that he is a christian. I think he honestly believes he is following the teachings of Christ. I also would probably be happy if I heard he had been killed. Not a very christian like thought, and it does not make me look like a "good" christian, but that's the way it is. It doesn't mean I am no longer a christian, because I had that thought.


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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/29/2009 8:56:10 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Im hardly confused. I stated exactly what i believe.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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Profile   Post #: 442
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/29/2009 9:04:52 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What your definition entails is a lable. being a christian, jew, muslim, ect, isnt about wearing a lable. For example, christians believe in following the 10 commandments. Pretty clear cut rules there. I dont recall wiggle room in most, if any of them. I can proclaim i am born again, a christian, convince others through words that i have given my life over to the Lord.... yet, if my actions speak otherwise, am i telling the truth? And here we come to another crux... truth.


I would have to disagree with you on this one. I think Fred Phelps is one of the most evil people I have ever heard of, but I also believe that he is a christian. I think he honestly believes he is following the teachings of Christ. I also would probably be happy if I heard he had been killed. Not a very christian like thought, and it does not make me look like a "good" christian, but that's the way it is. It doesn't mean I am no longer a christian, because I had that thought.



I dont know much about Phelps, so i went to look. Here is what i found...

The group is built around a core of anti-homosexual theology, with many of their activities stemming from the slogan "God hates fags", which is also the name of the group's main website. Gay rights activists, as well as Christians of virtually every denomination, have denounced him as a producer of anti-gay propaganda and violence-inspiring hate speech.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

What christian seeks to inspire hatred? God hates no one, else how can the christian belief of seeking salvation ever be believed?

Christianity is not rooted in hatred. Those inspiring such... as the above quote shows... are quickly shunned Some people can actually look at the actions, beyond the words, and see the reality.

Sometimes we cant help our thoughts. We can help our actions.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 443
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 3:14:02 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		"Christianity is not rooted in hatred. Those inspiring such... as the above quote shows... are quickly shunned Some people can actually look at the actions, beyond the words, and see the reality."

Christians have been rooted in hatred, not only against non Christians, but also against other Christian sects. This still continues here in the UK, just look at Ulster. You are also using a different word, hatred as against evil. Fred Phelps and others like him are devout Christians but plainly evil. You are wrongly suggesting that those with Christian beliefs can not be evil at the same time.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 444
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 5:00:04 AM   
eyesopened


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Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What your definition entails is a lable. being a christian, jew, muslim, ect, isnt about wearing a lable. For example, christians believe in following the 10 commandments. Pretty clear cut rules there. I dont recall wiggle room in most, if any of them. I can proclaim i am born again, a christian, convince others through words that i have given my life over to the Lord.... yet, if my actions speak otherwise, am i telling the truth? And here we come to another crux... truth.


All the Jews who follow the 10 commandments would hardly want to be called good christians.  Although I understand what you are trying to say:  "Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.  You will know them by their fruits." (Mt 7:15-16)  "Not every one who says to mr 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven byt he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Mt. 7:21)

Clearly Jesus is saying a lot of people are and will continue to be hypocrits.  It would seem more plausible to define a follower of Jesus to simply follow the 'new' commandments of "So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets." and "Love your neighbor as yourselves"

So it doesn't matter what lable a person puts on themselves, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Atheist, what matters is what fruit they bear.  Throw all of religion away!  It is no different today than when Jesus walked the earth.  Religion today seems to be all talk and no action.  Why all this arguement?  Does it matter if you believe in a Diety and spread hatred and discord?  Does it matter if you reject the idea of a Diety if you feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick?  What would happen if any of us spent more time helping others? 

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Profile   Post #: 445
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 5:36:28 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

"Christianity is not rooted in hatred. Those inspiring such... as the above quote shows... are quickly shunned Some people can actually look at the actions, beyond the words, and see the reality."

Christians have been rooted in hatred, not only against non Christians, but also against other Christian sects. This still continues here in the UK, just look at Ulster. You are also using a different word, hatred as against evil. Fred Phelps and others like him are devout Christians but plainly evil. You are wrongly suggesting that those with Christian beliefs can not be evil at the same time.


You believe him to be christian. He believes himself to be christian. I do not, based upon his actions.

I can call myself a republican... lol.... it would never be believed, but i couls scream it from the rooftops all day long... doesnt make it true based upon my beliefs.

Based upon christian beliefs, this man is not a christian, no matter how deeply many wish him to be simply because it makes your case so much easier to prove.

Anyone can call themselves an evolutionists, but, if they push the bible's theory of creationism, are they?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 446
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 5:39:15 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What your definition entails is a lable. being a christian, jew, muslim, ect, isnt about wearing a lable. For example, christians believe in following the 10 commandments. Pretty clear cut rules there. I dont recall wiggle room in most, if any of them. I can proclaim i am born again, a christian, convince others through words that i have given my life over to the Lord.... yet, if my actions speak otherwise, am i telling the truth? And here we come to another crux... truth.


All the Jews who follow the 10 commandments would hardly want to be called good christians.  Although I understand what you are trying to say:  "Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.  You will know them by their fruits." (Mt 7:15-16)  "Not every one who says to mr 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven byt he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Mt. 7:21)

Clearly Jesus is saying a lot of people are and will continue to be hypocrits.  It would seem more plausible to define a follower of Jesus to simply follow the 'new' commandments of "So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets." and "Love your neighbor as yourselves"

So it doesn't matter what lable a person puts on themselves, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Atheist, what matters is what fruit they bear.  Throw all of religion away!  It is no different today than when Jesus walked the earth.  Religion today seems to be all talk and no action.  Why all this arguement?  Does it matter if you believe in a Diety and spread hatred and discord?  Does it matter if you reject the idea of a Diety if you feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick?  What would happen if any of us spent more time helping others? 


Hi eyes

you have my point a bit backwards.

not everyone who follows the ten commandments will consider.. or be.. a christian. however, according to the basic tenants of christianity, you cannot break those commandments.

As to your questions... it doesnt matter... lol. i enjoy yanking these boys chains.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 447
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 5:49:49 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
What your definition entails is a lable. being a christian, jew, muslim, ect, isnt about wearing a lable. For example, christians believe in following the 10 commandments. Pretty clear cut rules there. I dont recall wiggle room in most, if any of them. I can proclaim i am born again, a christian, convince others through words that i have given my life over to the Lord.... yet, if my actions speak otherwise, am i telling the truth? And here we come to another crux... truth.


I would have to disagree with you on this one. I think Fred Phelps is one of the most evil people I have ever heard of, but I also believe that he is a christian. I think he honestly believes he is following the teachings of Christ. I also would probably be happy if I heard he had been killed. Not a very christian like thought, and it does not make me look like a "good" christian, but that's the way it is. It doesn't mean I am no longer a christian, because I had that thought.



I dont know much about Phelps, so i went to look. Here is what i found...

The group is built around a core of anti-homosexual theology, with many of their activities stemming from the slogan "God hates fags", which is also the name of the group's main website. Gay rights activists, as well as Christians of virtually every denomination, have denounced him as a producer of anti-gay propaganda and violence-inspiring hate speech.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

What christian seeks to inspire hatred? God hates no one, else how can the christian belief of seeking salvation ever be believed?

Christianity is not rooted in hatred. Those inspiring such... as the above quote shows... are quickly shunned Some people can actually look at the actions, beyond the words, and see the reality.

Sometimes we cant help our thoughts. We can help our actions.

I agree with tazzygirl. Hatred of homosexuals is typical of populations with mutilated penises, not of Christians. Such hatred is typically Old Testament, not New Testament. Ergo, Fred Phelps - whom I do not know anything about - by his actions as asserted in this thread, is not a Christian, but a Jew. Does he have a mutilated penis?

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RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 6:40:57 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What your definition entails is a lable. being a christian, jew, muslim, ect, isnt about wearing a lable. For example, christians believe in following the 10 commandments. Pretty clear cut rules there. I dont recall wiggle room in most, if any of them. I can proclaim i am born again, a christian, convince others through words that i have given my life over to the Lord.... yet, if my actions speak otherwise, am i telling the truth? And here we come to another crux... truth.



So it doesn't matter what lable a person puts on themselves, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Atheist, what matters is what fruit they bear.  Throw all of religion away!  It is no different today than when Jesus walked the earth.  Religion today seems to be all talk and no action.  Why all this arguement?  Does it matter if you believe in a Diety and spread hatred and discord?  Does it matter if you reject the idea of a Diety if you feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick?  What would happen if any of us spent more time helping others? 


You are right to assign the greatest importance to the humane deeds people do for one another, eyesopened. The problem here as I see it is tazzygirl lectures others on what is or is not Christian and then dodges previously by implying she is not Christian. Quote: "did I say I was christian? lol" as near as i can remember it.

After lecturing others she goes on most recently to make the absurd statement that christians believe in following the ten commandments which, she says are pretty clear cut rules. Hardly clear cut as I demonstrated above. Perhaps some christians do try to follow the ten commandments. But tg ignores or is ignorant of the christian belief that the death, resurrection, and redemption offered by Jesus on the Cross is in fact a New Covenant not to be confused with the Covenant of the Jews. Paul argued strenuously as did the Gospel of John that one accept the resurrection to be a Christian and once in that state of grace good acts would follow. Paul had no illusion that it was not necessary to keep the Laws of Moses in order to be a Christian. He opposed James and Peter for such claims.

Tazzygirl has the audacity to speak on behalf of christians, misrepresents their beliefs, and then pretends that any criticisms leveled at her can be dismissed as coming from uninformed "boys." Her pretence at authority on the subject is quite hypocritical. The nature of certitude in her statements displays a hubris that stifles the room in its expansiveness.

vincent

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 449
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 7:29:27 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Paul argued strenuously as did the Gospel of John that one accept the resurrection to be a Christian and once in that state of grace good acts would follow.

Paul argued strenuously that those [populations] who are circumcized of penis are not circumcized of heart, whereas those [populations] who are not circumcized of penis are circumcized of heart.

Thus only those latter are good people who are in a state of grace, having a true covenant with "God", whereas the former are not.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 450
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 8:55:35 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
What your definition entails is a lable. being a christian, jew, muslim, ect, isnt about wearing a lable. For example, christians believe in following the 10 commandments. Pretty clear cut rules there. I dont recall wiggle room in most, if any of them. I can proclaim i am born again, a christian, convince others through words that i have given my life over to the Lord.... yet, if my actions speak otherwise, am i telling the truth? And here we come to another crux... truth.


I would have to disagree with you on this one. I think Fred Phelps is one of the most evil people I have ever heard of, but I also believe that he is a christian. I think he honestly believes he is following the teachings of Christ. I also would probably be happy if I heard he had been killed. Not a very christian like thought, and it does not make me look like a "good" christian, but that's the way it is. It doesn't mean I am no longer a christian, because I had that thought.




I dont know much about Phelps, so i went to look. Here is what i found...

The group is built around a core of anti-homosexual theology, with many of their activities stemming from the slogan "God hates fags", which is also the name of the group's main website. Gay rights activists, as well as Christians of virtually every denomination, have denounced him as a producer of anti-gay propaganda and violence-inspiring hate speech.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

What christian seeks to inspire hatred? God hates no one, else how can the christian belief of seeking salvation ever be believed?

Christianity is not rooted in hatred. Those inspiring such... as the above quote shows... are quickly shunned Some people can actually look at the actions, beyond the words, and see the reality.

Sometimes we cant help our thoughts. We can help our actions.

I agree with tazzygirl. Hatred of homosexuals is typical of populations with mutilated penises, not of Christians. Such hatred is typically Old Testament, not New Testament. Ergo, Fred Phelps - whom I do not know anything about - by his actions as asserted in this thread, is not a Christian, but a Jew. Does he have a mutilated penis?

It's typical of jews? News to me. There are several Christian groups (the Baptists, The Catholics and the Mormons immediately spring to mind) who are nearly as anti gay as Phelps. The Jews seem a bit more tolerant in most respects.
And that's without even touching on the muslims who are poisonously homophobic and didn't even exist during the old testament.


< Message edited by Moonhead -- 11/30/2009 8:56:40 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 451
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 9:13:41 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
It's typical of jews? News to me. There are several Christian groups (the Baptists, The Catholics and the Mormons immediately spring to mind) who are nearly as anti gay as Phelps.

Then per my definition they are not Christians.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
And that's without even touching on the muslims who are poisonously homophobic and didn't even exist during the old testament.

Them Muslims practise penis mutilation, do not they? Then per my definition they are not Muslims, but Jews. They even profess to worship the same God as the Jews, instead of Allah as Mohammed was sent to admonish them to do.

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Profile   Post #: 452
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 9:43:11 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Maybe you should try telling a Muslim that that: they'd probably do you over like they did those contractors in Fallujah. They're the only people on earth more antisemitic than the average neonazi.

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 453
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 9:57:32 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Paul argued strenuously as did the Gospel of John that one accept the resurrection to be a Christian and once in that state of grace good acts would follow.

Paul argued strenuously that those [populations] who are circumcized of penis are not circumcized of heart, whereas those [populations] who are not circumcized of penis are circumcized of heart.

Thus only those latter are good people who are in a state of grace, having a true covenant with "God", whereas the former are not.



There seems to have been more to it than the act of circumcision. From what I have read Paul was saying one did not have to adhere to the Law and first become a Jew before he could become a Christian, but he did advocate the moral teachings of the Law as a sign that one has received Grace.

The following from the Wiki article here.....

"Paul's theology of the gospel accelerated the separation of the messianic sect of Christians from Judaism, a development contrary to Paul's own intent.[6] He wrote that faith in Christ was alone decisive in salvation for Jews and Gentiles alike, making the schism between the followers of Christ and mainstream Jews inevitable and permanent.[6] He successfully argued that Gentile converts did not need to become Jews, get circumcised, follow Jewish dietary restrictions, or otherwise observe Jewish Law.[6] Nevertheless, in Romans he insisted on the positive value of the Law, as a moral guide."

vincent

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 454
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 10:14:43 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Them Muslims practise penis mutilation, do not they?


Tell us, are owners of vaginas affected by this cuckoo theory of yours  ?

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 455
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 10:17:25 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I agree with tazzygirl. Hatred of homosexuals is typical of populations with mutilated penises, not of Christians. Such hatred is typically Old Testament, not New Testament. Ergo, Fred Phelps - whom I do not know anything about - by his actions as asserted in this thread, is not a Christian, but a Jew. Does he have a mutilated penis?


You may be mistaken on this point Rule. Here is a contradiction from Wiki. Please note that the reference to "sinful" behavior is as profoundly condemning as you can get in biblical terms. The denominations listed below are all quite Christian.

"Christian denominations hold a variety of views on the issue of homosexual activity, ranging from outright condemnation to complete acceptance. In accordance with the traditional values of Abrahamic religions,[1] most Christian denominations welcome people attracted to the same sex, but teach that same sex relationships and homosexual sex are sinful.[2][3] These denominations include the Roman Catholic Church,[4] the Eastern Orthodox church,[5] the Methodist Church,[6][2][7][8] and many other mainline denominations, such as the Reformed Church in America[9] and the American Baptist Church,[10] as well as Conservative Evangelical organizations and churches, such as the Evangelical Alliance,[11] and fundamentalist groups and churches, such as the Southern Baptist Convention.[12][13][14] Pentecostal churches such as the Assemblies of God,[15] as well as Restorationist churches, like Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, also take the position that gay sexual activity is immoral.[16][17]"

I think the implication is that if one acts in a "sinful" manner one has fallen from Grace. I fail to understand your obsession with mutilated penises. Nor do I see how you can place homophobia solely upon Jews.

vincent


_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 456
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 10:21:09 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Them Muslims practise penis mutilation, do not they?


Tell us, are owners of vaginas affected by this cuckoo theory of yours  ?

Of course not. Women don't count in middle eastern desert religions. Everybody knows that.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 457
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 10:23:12 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		It is the gene pool (and the culture) that is affected, since owners of vagina's are part of gene pool and culture, yes they inevitably are affected.

Any change in phenotype - including behaviour - has evolutionary repercussions.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 458
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 10:28:47 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Them Muslims practise penis mutilation, do not they?

Tell us, are owners of vaginas affected by this cuckoo theory of yours  ?


Vaginas are subject to different rule interpretations under the benevolent religion of Islam.

FGM is a social custom, not a religious practice. However, in those Muslim countries where it is practice, FGM is often justified by a controversial saying attributed to the Prophet Mohammed that seem to favor sunna circumcision involving minor cutting of the clitoris. The authenticity of these sayings are unconfirmed, and some scholars have refuted them. Even if true, they only permit the practice; they do not mandate it.

FGM has probably been performed for at least 1,400 years (some references estimate 2,000 years), and started during what Muslims call "al-gahiliyyah" (the era of ignorance). The Qu'r'an, Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and Christian Scriptures (New Testament) is silent on the subject. The Sunnah (the words and actions of the Prophet Mohammed) contains a reference to female circumcision.

It's only a "suggestion"; like the killing of infidels. Similarly I guess the problem should be ignored and allowed to continue because, after all, it's not representative of Islam, only a radical few practitioners and the woman who happen to be at the wrong end of the circumcision knife.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 459
RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. - 11/30/2009 10:31:39 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

It is the gene pool (and the culture) that is affected, since owners of vagina's are part of gene pool and culture, yes they inevitably are affected.



Oh dear.

_____________________________



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