RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (Full Version)

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sirsholly -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 7:41:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I prefer my wenches rare rather than well done anyway.

Di I HAFTA untie her????

they haz rulers...




DarkSteven -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 7:41:43 AM)

[sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif]




Moonhead -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 7:46:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I admit that it quit suppressing science, like it had done during the Dark Ages, but has religion funded scientific advances?

I'm not sure that it has stopped, even now. Most of the objections to stem cell research seem to be religious based, after all, and then there's that ridiculous nonsense about wanting to teach creationism in science classes in public schools.




kdsub -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 7:52:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arrogance

What are the aforementioned miracles around us?

Being a Deist, maybe I could use them as evidence to convert my atheist girlfriend!

Unless the "miracles" are things that can all be explained by the natural wonders of science. =/



I think you are a miracle ...not just man as opposed to an ameba but intelligence itself…the very spark of life from a hot or cold rock in a vacuum.

But even more than that is your love. Can it be explained as a survival instinct? Is it just those, which for some kind of fluke of nature, stood a few steps closer to another survived to pass on genes? Or because two people liked potatoes they worked together to grow them and this cooperation became love.

Our miracles are as personal as faith…miracles are real even if only to describe the wonders of nature with or without God. So deny God if you will but it would be foolish to deny miracles.

Butch




UncleNasty -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 8:05:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

yesit droppedwhen your fingers hit the keys and hit the send button. I agree with you 100% on that one.

ORIGINAL: MasterJack53




When atheists burn, hang and torture Christians, then we can have a conversation about how badly religion is treated by we godless heathens. Until then, count the bodies of those killed in the name of Christ and Allah and consider yourself lucky.




What he (spinneroftales) said.

I am not aware of any organized group of atheists ever persecuting Christians, or any other religious group. The religious persecution I am aware of has come at the hands of another religious group.

Uncle Nasty




TheHeretic -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 8:09:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

I am not aware of any organized group of atheists ever persecuting Christians, or any other religious group.



So then you aren't familiar with the old Soviet bloc, or China? 

Just sayin.




Rule -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 8:54:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
In the Jewish sect called Islam

You are joking, right?

No, I am not joking. Any population in which the penis of their males is circumcised - including Muslims and USA Christians - by my definition is on the Jewish physiological and cultural evolutionary track, eventually - after a number of generations - resulting in increased frequency of homosexuality (I expect; research is required), increased frequency of congenital diseases (and ugliness; it is a package deal), polygamy (and rapists; another package deal), crime and hence the sharia (including the stoning, drowning and throat cutting and 'honour' murders of females), and in martyrdom.

The cause is the Law of Murphy: If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong. Desiring to be good and to comply with the Divine, by practicing circumcision the opposite effect occurs. Circumcision unfortunately does protect against sexually transmissible diseases; thus by having circumcised males in the population, such a population is in fact opposing the Divine which wants such males to die. Thus Islam, which professes to yield to the Divine, in fact opposes the Divine; circumcision makes Islam into a lie.

It all comes down to the evolution algorithm: any change in physiology and / or behaviour will have repercussions for both the gene pool and for the affected culture. Circumcision is a HUGE such change and the evolutionary repercussions and penalties are commensurate.

I quote from John 9: " 1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus"

I do not entirely agree with Jesus. What is clear to me, though, is that I would answer these disciples thusly: "By practicing circumcision, the entire population has sinned for many generations."




Musicmystery -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 8:56:34 AM)

Or how about U.S. folk questioning whether Jewish, Catholic, Mormon candidates should be elected?




Moonhead -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 9:06:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
In the Jewish sect called Islam

You are joking, right?

No, I am not joking. Any population in which the penis of their males is circumcised - including Muslims and USA Christians - by my definition is on the Jewish physiological and cultural evolutionary track, eventually - after a number of generations - resulting in increased frequency of homosexuality (I expect; research is required), increased frequency of congenital diseases (and ugliness; it is a package deal), polygamy (and rapists; another package deal), crime and hence the sharia (including the stoning, drowning and throat cutting and 'honour' murders of females), and in martyrdom.

The cause is the Law of Murphy: If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong. Desiring to be good and to comply with the Divine, by practicing circumcision the opposite effect occurs. Circumcision unfortunately does protect against sexually transmissible diseases; thus by having circumcised males in the population, such a population is in fact opposing the Divine which wants such males to die. Thus Islam, which professes to yield to the Divine, in fact opposes the Divine; circumcision makes Islam into a lie.

It all comes down to the evolution algorithm: any change in physiology and / or behaviour will have repercussions for both the gene pool and for the affected culture. Circumcision is a HUGE such change and the evolutionary repercussions and penalties are commensurate.

I quote from John 9: " 1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus"

I do not entirely agree with Jesus. What is clear to me, though, is that I would answer these disciples thusly: "By practicing circumcision, the entire population has sinned for many generations."


Hang on a second: how on Earth can circumcision have any effect on the gene pool? They gave up on Lamarckian evolution a while back.




tazzygirl -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 9:08:41 AM)

quote:

No, I am not joking. Any population in which the penis of their males is circumcised - including Muslims and USA Christians - by my definition is on the Jewish physiological and cultural evolutionary track, eventually - after a number of generations - resulting in increased frequency of homosexuality (I expect; research is required), increased frequency of congenital diseases (and ugliness; it is a package deal), polygamy (and rapists; another package deal), crime and hence the sharia (including the stoning, drowning and throat cutting and 'honour' murders of females), and in martyrdom


So, you are saying if a male is circumcised then he is 1) a product of a Jewish faith.  and 2) will soon follow the tracks of rapists, polygamy, criminals and martyrs.

Got figures to back all that up?  Any research?  Any idea of how many men who commit murders, rapes, ect, are in fact circumcised?  Any figures on how many who commit these crimes are not?

I do believe the pediatric association for many, many years have encouraged circumsicion for male infants as a way to prevent problems later in life, having nothing to do with faith or religion.

quote:

Non-religious circumcision in the English-speaking world
Infant circumcision was taken up in the United States, Australia and the English-speaking parts of Canada, South Africa, New Zealand and to a lesser extent in the United Kingdom. There are several hypotheses to explain why infant circumcision was accepted in the United States about the year 1900. The germ theory of disease elicited an image of the human body as a conveyance for many dangerous germs, making the public "germ phobic" and suspicious of dirt and bodily secretions. The penis became "dirty" by association with its function, and from this premise circumcision was seen as preventative medicine to be practiced universally.[20] In the view of many practitioners at the time, circumcision was a method of treating and preventing masturbation.[20] Aggleton wrote that John Harvey Kellogg viewed male circumcision in this way, and further "advocated an unashamedly punitive approach."[21] Circumcision was also said to protect against syphilis,[22] phimosis, paraphimosis, balanitis, and "excessive venery" (which was believed to produce paralysis).[20] Gollaher states that physicians advocating circumcision in the late nineteenth century expected public scepticism, and refined their arguments to overcome it.[20]
Although it is difficult to determine historical circumcision rates, one estimate of infant circumcision rates in the United States holds that 32% of newborn American boys were being circumcised in 1933.[23] Laumann et al. reported that the prevalence of circumcision among US-born males was approximately 70%, 80%, 85%, and 77% for those born in 1945, 1955, 1965, and 1971 respectively.[23] Xu et al. reported that the prevalence of circumcision among US-born males was 91% for males born in the 1970s and 84% for those born in the 1980s.[24] Between 1981 and 1999, National Hospital Discharge Survey data from the National Center for Health Statistics demonstrated that the infant circumcision rate remained relatively stable within the 60% range, with a minimum of 60.7% in 1988 and a maximum of 67.8% in 1995.[25] A 1987 study found that the most prominent reasons US parents choose circumcision were "concerns about the attitudes of peers and their sons' self concept in the future," rather than medical concerns.[26] However, a later study speculated that an increased recognition of the potential benefits of neonatal circumcision may have been responsible for the observed increase in the US rate between 1988 and 2000.[27] A report by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality placed the 2005 national circumcision rate at 56%.[28]
In 1949, the United Kingdom's newly-formed National Health Service removed infant circumcision from its list of covered services, and circumcision has since been an out-of-pocket cost to parents. As a result, prevalence in the UK is age-graded, with 12% of those aged 16–19 years circumcised and 20% of those aged 40–44 years,[29] and the proportion of newborns circumcised in England and Wales has fallen to less than one percent.
The circumcision rate has declined sharply in Australia since the 1970s, leading to an age-graded fall in prevalence, with a 2000-01 survey finding 32% of those aged 16–19 years circumcised, 50% for 20–29 years and 64% for those aged 30–39 years.[30][31]
In Canada, Ontario health services delisted circumcision in 1994.[32]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcise




rulemylife -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 9:32:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Or how about U.S. folk questioning whether Jewish, Catholic, Mormon candidates should be elected?


Not applicable.

For the most part these are people of other faiths doing the questioning because of their own beliefs.










Rule -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 9:32:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Hang on a second: how on Earth can circumcision have any effect on the gene pool? They gave up on Lamarckian evolution a while back.

It does not matter whether a physiological or behavioral change is the result of a mutation in a gene or not. The evolutionary algorithm is adamant: Any change in physiology or behavior will have repercussions for the evolution of the gene pool and of the affected culture. It does not matter whether either due to a mutation one cell in the wing of a butterfly turns red or because somebody paints one cell in the wing of a butterfly red, for whatever reason that one cell turns red, it will have evolutionary repercussions: predators or other butterflies will either notice the butterfly more or less, reducing or increasing reproductive success.

Let's take another hypothetical example: Say in one population at birth the feet of all babies are amputated. No effect on the gene pool, you say? Wrong: individuals with sturdier knees will crawl better than people with less sturdy and calloused knees and will therefore have an evolutionary advantage. Any mutations that improve crawling speed will be selected for and the frequency of the alleles in the gene pool will change.

One aspect of the evolutionary algorithm is that it is exponential: any physiological change resulting in a reproductive advantage, however slight, will cause any subsequent mutation or change in behaviour that adds to such an advantage to have an exponential larger effect and thus be strongly selected for. In the case of circumcision, which does protect against sexually transmissible diseases, accordingly any physiological change and especially any cultural change that opposes the transfer of sexually transmissible diseases will be strongly selected for. Promiscuous women and homosexuals for that reason, being vectors of sexually transmissible diseases, for that reason are heavily persecuted in the Old Testament and in Islam.

As for tazzygirl: I agree that far more research is required. I am as eager for such data as you are. Unfortunately, such research may be regarded as politically incorrect, thus blocking informed decision making.




tazzygirl -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 9:35:59 AM)

Yet the data i gave you, Rule, heavily suggests your hypothesis is wrong.




DarkSteven -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 9:40:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
In the Jewish sect called Islam

You are joking, right?

No, I am not joking. Any population in which the penis of their males is circumcised - including Muslims and USA Christians - by my definition is on the Jewish physiological and cultural evolutionary track, eventually - after a number of generations - resulting in increased frequency of homosexuality (I expect; research is required), increased frequency of congenital diseases (and ugliness; it is a package deal), polygamy (and rapists; another package deal), crime and hence the sharia (including the stoning, drowning and throat cutting and 'honour' murders of females), and in martyrdom.

The cause is the Law of Murphy: If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong. Desiring to be good and to comply with the Divine, by practicing circumcision the opposite effect occurs. Circumcision unfortunately does protect against sexually transmissible diseases; thus by having circumcised males in the population, such a population is in fact opposing the Divine which wants such males to die. Thus Islam, which professes to yield to the Divine, in fact opposes the Divine; circumcision makes Islam into a lie.

It all comes down to the evolution algorithm: any change in physiology and / or behaviour will have repercussions for both the gene pool and for the affected culture. Circumcision is a HUGE such change and the evolutionary repercussions and penalties are commensurate.

I quote from John 9: " 1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus"

I do not entirely agree with Jesus. What is clear to me, though, is that I would answer these disciples thusly: "By practicing circumcision, the entire population has sinned for many generations."



So your basic points are that any religion that practices circumcision is Jewish? 

I'm trying to be open minded but to me that's a minor facet of being Jewish.  The theological implications are that Jews accept a monotheistic God based on the Old Testament, Christians accept that God but add in Jesus as a Messiah and also add in the New Testament, and Muslims consider Jesus to be a Prophet rather than the Messiah and worship Muhammed as the Messiah, and add in worship of the Koran.

Your definition of Judaism is a minority view.  Matter of fact, it may be limited to you.

The rest of your post is conjecture drive by God only knows what.  Jews have not practiced any of the sins you ascribe to being caused by circumcision, not have US Christians.  Nor for that matter, do a lot of Muslims.  I'd say that that's conclusive evidence that the cause is not circumcision.




Rule -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 9:41:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
So, you are saying if a male is circumcised then he is 1) a product of a Jewish faith.  and 2) will soon follow the tracks of rapists, polygamy, criminals and martyrs.

No, I am not saying that. Generalizations applicable to a population do not necessarily apply to an individual in such a population. Also, it does require a number of generations for changes in the gene pool to result in new stable allele frequencies in that gene pool.




tazzygirl -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 9:50:21 AM)

Personally, it seems you are reaching far beyond your means, and are now attempting to step out of the way.  A circumcision is done for religious reasons... and for many more.  Religion does not have the exclusivity on such a procedure.




Rule -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 9:54:28 AM)

Natural selection does not give a damn for what reason something occurs. It will simply respond to any change and do its thing, causing changes in both the gene pool, in the physiology and in the behavior of the affected population.




Rule -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 9:55:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Yet the data i gave you, Rule, heavily suggests your hypothesis is wrong.

I will read your post in detail at a later time. I've got to go now.




rulemylife -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 9:57:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Good point and when I browse the forums, I see a lot of threads bashing religion, but I don't see the ones claiming believing is the only true way to live. Maybe you could provide a few links from those believers who start these threads on a daily basis.



I was referring to the comments on this particular thread, but if you want to see who is claiming believing is the only way to live you only have to turn on your television or open a newspaper.

Do you know of an atheist equivalent I can watch similar to The 700 Club?

For that matter, do you know of any networks devoted exclusively to atheists that compete with the Christian Broadcasting Network and the Christian Science Network?

Do I really need to go on with the Christian Coalition, the Moral Majority, the Traditional Values Coalition, the Family Research Council and the multitude of other conservative Christian organizations that not only claim believing is the only way, but want to actively influence government regarding those beliefs.




Rule -> RE: Believer(s) of god are plague to this world. (10/17/2009 10:03:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
So your basic points are that any religion that practices circumcision is Jewish? 

No. My thesis is that any population that practices circumcision will evolve behaviors and an increased frequency of congenital diseases that are typical for Jewish/Islamic populations and which will eventually be incorporated into their religious doctrines.

Google "congenital diseases" & arabic.




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