forever, the future, and grim reality

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Hierodule -> forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 2:42:27 PM)
I am about to enter a into a 24/7 TPE relationship with my Master. As of now I am his 24 hours a day but we do not live together. I work and support myself. Soon I will move in with him and be his "kept girl." He will support me finacially and I will be his uttterly.. Recently there has been a slight change in one of the things he requires of me. Before, when he asked "Who do you belong to?" the accepted response was always "I belong to Tony." Now when he asks who I belong to he wants, requires and expects me to say "I belong to Tony, Forever." I comply without argument. However, we share our feelings openly. So I have mentioned to him that, as someone who got marrried and divorced at a pretty young age, I have a really hard time believing in "forever." Its not that I feel I can't or do not want to commit my life to him its just that people change. Its just as likely that he may grow tired of me as it is that I may tire of him. I don't FEEL like I will ever want to be without him. I want to be his forever more than anything. But I didn't feel like I would ever leave my first husband either. Things just changed. So here is my question (actually there ar two of them): First of all "Forever." Is it the stuff of fantasy? Or can two people actually commit to eachother for their whole lifetime and perhaps beyond ? (if you belive in that sort of thing) Secondly, Do any of you 24/7 slaves who are supported finacially by your Masters have a (....gasp! how un-slavely of me...) contingency plan if things go wrong? Savings, investments etc. Sorry folks reality bites. I just started my career and am more then ready to give it up to live the life I always dreamt of. In fact I want to give it up, can't wait to give it up/ I trust him more than I trust myself . I feel the love he has for me. I have no fear for my saftey or doubt that his words and intentions are true. But, what... if...? Anything could happen and 10, 20 years down the road when it will be too late for me to start again what will I do?. Am I just not a twue swave becasue I am even entertaining these thoughts? Bring it on oh slavely slaves. Put me in my place.

sleazybutterfly -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 2:58:21 PM)
I thought I would be with my Master forever, after all we are even married. Wrong. I thought I would be taken care of and able to finish school so that I could make life better for both of us. Wrong. Life just doesn't have guarantee's no matter how much we wish otherwise. I made a decision that I will never depend on anyone again. Does that mean I won't be a good slave? Heck, no. It means that in the end, I must be able to take care of myself if anything like this happens again. I think I am a smart slave that knows that life throws some crap at ya sometimes, so you better be prepared. :)

Mercnbeth -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 3:04:48 PM)
quote: ...First of all "Forever." Is it the stuff of fantasy? Or can two people actually commit to eachother for their whole lifetime and perhaps beyond ? (if you belive in that sort of thing)... Master's parents just celebrated their 64th anniversary. they were never seriously involved, engaged or married to anyone else. so yes, it can happen. quote: ...Secondly, Do any of you 24/7 slaves who are supported finacially by your Masters have a (....gasp! how un-slavely of me...) contingency plan if things go wrong?... Only what Master has decided to set up for her. this slave didn't insist on it as a condition of her slavery to Him.

MMagic -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 3:05:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sleazybutterfly I thought I would be with my Master forever, after all we are even married. Wrong. I thought I would be taken care of and able to finish school so that I could make life better for both of us. Wrong. Life just doesn't have guarantee's no matter how much we wish otherwise. I made a decision that I will never depend on anyone again. Does that mean I won't be a good slave? Heck, no. It means that in the end, I must be able to take care of myself if anything like this happens again. I think I am a smart slave that knows that life throws some crap at ya sometimes, so you better be prepared. :) Let the congregation say Amen! But as we all know some Doms are threatened by a strong sub (slave). And as I'm learning, if they are threatened that you can take care of yourself then it's time to run away screaming. I may want you to take care of me and I'm submissive to you but that doesn't make me stupid or incapable of taking care of myself. That shouldn't be viewed as bad...oh wait I just stepped up on my soap box, lol. Getting off now.

DavanKael -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 3:17:49 PM)
First of all "Forever." Is it the stuff of fantasy? Or can two people actually commit to eachother for their whole lifetime and perhaps beyond ? (if you belive in that sort of thing) Like you, I was partnered with (15), married to (18), split up with (32), and divorced from (34) my husband at relatively young ages. I still have cognitive dissonance over us not being together forever. Such a crumbling has created a schism, to be sure, but I do not disbelieve in forever. As to a back-up plan, yes, I think it is smart to have one, however, were I to come to identify as a slave, that may not be the same. It is curious that your Master has changed verbeage on you in that fashion and that it is creating concearns for you. That strikes me as worthy of a discussion or several. Best wishes, Davan

CaringandReal -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 3:20:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule First of all "Forever." Is it the stuff of fantasy? Or can two people actually commit to eachother for their whole lifetime and perhaps beyond ? (if you belive in that sort of thing) Lifetime, yes, if it's with someone right for you. Beyond? Well, it's very hard when the separation is so complete. And also many of us and/or our masters do not believe in a beyond. quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule Secondly, Do any of you 24/7 slaves who are supported finacially by your Masters have a (....gasp! how un-slavely of me...) contingency plan if things go wrong? I've never had the good fortune of being fully supported by anyone in my life, and I probably never will. The people that have really drawn me and continue to draw me have never been that solvent. Just happenstance, I suppose. It's not slavey or unslavey (why the attitude?)--it's just about who you connect with and where it goes. Since your master can afford the support and you're going to lose your job skills and edge, do beg him to put some things in place for you. If he's as wonderful as you describe he's probably already started thinking along these lines, maybe all you have to do is ask.

DesFIP -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 3:28:38 PM)
The wording may be because he feels you drawing back, always looking for how you'll be safe. If so, this isn't the way to address it. Ask him about finances, is he putting $300 a month aside for you every month? Or a lump sum to support you for two years while you retrain and reenter the job force. Are you the beneficiary of his will or if he's hit by a bus do his siblings get his house while you get ten days to vacate? Health insurance of course is the big one. But I'm curious that someone who says he wants you to commit forever will not lead by example and insist on marrying you in order to have all those legal protections in place. Seems you're the only one with something to lose here. And the only one being asked to commit in other than lip service.

afterforever -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 3:33:44 PM)
I don't think forever (or a lifetime, since I don't believe in after) is impossible, I know plenty of couples who have been together all their lives. My adopted grandparents are just coming up on their 50th anniversary. However I can't ever imagine being fully supported by someone and not having a contingency plan, especially since the only proper job I am ever likely to have requires constant updating and practice of skills. I would definitely want to keep my own money in a savings account or something just in case, and I don't think that's unreasonable.

KYsissy -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 4:06:59 PM)
quote: First of all "Forever." Is it the stuff of fantasy? Or can two people actually commit to eachother for their whole lifetime and perhaps beyond ? (if you belive in that sort of thing) No its not impossible. It isn't always easy either. If you are good for each other and you are committed, it can work. If you are not good for each other, then you do not want to stay there obviously. If you think it is impossible, it may become a self fulfilling prophecy. It almost did with me and my wife. Her second marriage, my first. She was prepared to be on her own because "nothing ever lasts". She had never been with someone who was devoted to her. I misread some signals and thought her leaving was imminent. She was just preparing her backup plan. I didn't have one, couldn't conceive of one. I thought we would work our way through the bad times and when I got the idea she was about to go, it almost became reality. It depends on the people involved. Commitment is a big word and involves much much more than just not sleeping with anyone else. It means exhausting any and all options available before throwing in the towel. I'm not talking about abuse or addiction or similar situations. "Good for each other" does not apply there. It won't always be sunshine and roses but as long as the good parts far outweigh the bad, it can very very good.

agirl -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 4:14:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule First of all "Forever." Is it the stuff of fantasy? Or can two people actually commit to eachother for their whole lifetime and perhaps beyond ? (if you belive in that sort of thing) Secondly, Do any of you 24/7 slaves who are supported finacially by your Masters have a (....gasp! how un-slavely of me...) contingency plan if things go wrong? Savings, investments etc. Sorry folks reality bites. I just started my career and am more then ready to give it up to live the life I always dreamt of. In fact I want to give it up, can't wait to give it up/ I trust him more than I trust myself . I feel the love he has for me. I have no fear for my saftey or doubt that his words and intentions are true. But, what... if...? Anything could happen and 10, 20 years down the road when it will be too late for me to start again what will I do?. Am I just not a twue swave becasue I am even entertaining these thoughts? Bring it on oh slavely slaves. Put me in my place. No, it's not fantasy obviously, as people DO stay together. My parents have been together for over 50yrs etc. I'm not supported financially by my master, but I'm often subsidised. It's not that I have contingency plans.........but more that he'd prefer me to be able to be self sufficient in ANY circumstances. He could keel over tomorrow ........he could be run over by a bus, blah blah. We BOTH know that life does sometimes get in the way of the best laid plans, hopes and wishes. I think it's actually quite natural to have your thoughts turn to this type of thing if you've had to face the reality of things going tits up and had the hard slog of dealing with it. What you're saying is that you KNOW that the best intentions dont always pan out. And you'd be right. It's just facing reality as YOU have experienced and know it. Sometimes it's hard for the other party to hear that you are even thinking about life beyond them...it can feel like a bit of a wet kipper in the face........It makes THEM have to think about what-ifs that they prefer not to. Basically, it's just helpful if both have the same outlook. It's not a slavey issue .......it's something that many people think about and ponder on, in all types of relationship styles, when making choices to be vulnerable to some degree. agirl

porcelaine -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 4:48:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule First of all "Forever." Is it the stuff of fantasy? Or can two people actually commit to eachother for their whole lifetime and perhaps beyond ? (if you belive in that sort of thing) Secondly, Do any of you 24/7 slaves who are supported finacially by your Masters have a (....gasp! how un-slavely of me...) contingency plan if things go wrong? if you believe in the concept that the master knows his slave and he's aware of your past experiences, the question wouldn't seem peculiar at all. it would reference an area that he's addressing that you haven't surrendered thus far due to fear and uncertainty. having you repeat the statement and answer differently actually has two purposes. when you verbalize something you hear it and begin to internalize what is being said. there's also the added benefit of ridding you of the tape playing in your head that contradicts this is possible. it is continually reinforced everytime the question comes up. look at it as an affirmation of sorts and it might make sense. as for the money. this has been a difficult area for me. not only due to independence and self sufficiency, but also common sense. my background has afforded me the opportunity of seeing people in financial positions that weren't pretty. i never expected i'd be dependent on a man for sustenance. but then again i never expected i'd become a slave either. that must be the part our parents spoke of when they said you never know what you'll do. i'm a practical person. obviously you've been together for a time and there should be some level of comfort. there are a few ways to go about this. but i'm going to suggest a different route to alleviate stress and fingerpointing. go and visit a financial planner. explain that you will lose one source of income and want to begin putting money aside for contingency purposes. they are accustomed to creating plans like this that both parties can agree on. you'd need to address other things such as the will, life insurance, and a living will too. if property is involved that should be discussed at some point. it doesn't have to occur right now. you can stagger these things. 6 months, then one year, etc. i'd also suggest that you discuss having an allowance which allows household purchases and would cover incidentals. if stipulations exist in certain areas be sure to get them spelled out. i wouldn't do this verbally, but get something in writing so you know what you're permitted to spend in all areas. you've been accustomed to spending your own money as you desired. this will be a huge change. he may not feel you need a certain thing even if it was on sale. take a deep breath. it is very scary and i can understand the feelings of ambivalence. i would have them myself but i'm working through those feelings now instead. i wish you luck and congratulations to you and Yours on the newest chapter in your journey. feel free to drop me a note if you have additional questions. porcelaine

littlewonder -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 4:49:41 PM)
I was a stay at home mom and wife for 5 years. I had very little job experience or any other kind of experience. Then my husband died. At that point I still didn't work due to being able to provide for myself through an insurance policy. I did that for 14 years. When that was no longer able to sufficiently support us I still had no job experience after staying home and raising my child alone for 14 years. What did I do? I applied for jobs all over the place and crossed my fingers until someone took a chance on me and hired me. Until you do find that job there's foodstamps, welfare, other public assistance to help you get back on your feet. To be honest I"m always puzzled by these kinds of questions.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 4:52:28 PM)
quote: First of all "Forever." Is it the stuff of fantasy? Or can two people actually commit to eachother for their whole lifetime and perhaps beyond ? (if you belive in that sort of thing) I definitely believe that people can cherish one another for a lifetime and beyond life. However, I -don't- believe that it is forthright to promise that, as such situations can only be proven -after the fact-, and failure to keep such a promise, for whatever circumstance, would weigh on me. Particularly, I would never make such a promise (or ask for such a promise) from someone that I hadn't lived with for a substantial period of time prior to even beginning to ask for such a thing. quote: Secondly, Do any of you 24/7 slaves who are supported finacially by your Masters have a (....gasp! how un-slavely of me...) contingency plan if things go wrong? Savings, investments etc. Sorry folks reality bites. I just started my career and am more then ready to give it up to live the life I always dreamt of. In fact I want to give it up, can't wait to give it up/ I trust him more than I trust myself . I feel the love he has for me. I have no fear for my saftey or doubt that his words and intentions are true. But, what... if...? Anything could happen and 10, 20 years down the road when it will be too late for me to start again what will I do?. Am I just not a twue swave becasue I am even entertaining these thoughts? Bring it on oh slavely slaves. Put me in my place. For the moment, everyone in the household contributes into a common pool from which the household runs. We don't consider this any different, in our case at the moment, than any other communal living situation, whether a marriage, a commune, or a domestic partnership. However, where it comes to the point where we had "kept" servants, and we required that they not work outside the home there has been, in our past, and would definitely be some kind of provision set up in the event of a sudden transition (for slower transitions, we would likely ease the person back into outer world... especially with the understanding that being out of the workforce for an extended period of time makes returning to the workforce much more difficult - and the older the individual, the harder the transition). I think that it is -smart- to talk about these things when entering into a relationship (any relationship, not just a D/s or M/s relationship). It makes sense to take responsibility for one's life... and, if one chooses to yield that life to someone else, to be able to assure that you will be safe and contingencies will be taken care of. I appreciate when, if I don't bring it up, the person I am negotiating with does. Dame Calla

yummee -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 5:22:37 PM)
My salary includes modest living quarters, the size of a 1-bedroom apartment with small office, as I run a Bed & Breakfast. I do buy groceries with income from my salary, but everything else goes into my own savings account. I never required this (or anything) of B, but he understands that at 41, I have limited earning potential before retirement age. He pays his bills and a small portion of mine (truck note, auto insurance for both of us, cell phones for both of us, partial groceries, etc.), since he considers our rent paid by me, even though it is not technically coming out of my salary. We both feel that we are both contributing financially to the household pretty evenly. Would your owner be open to part time employment for your to pad your savings account, provided you leave for work after him and return before him?

KYsissy -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 5:27:27 PM)
quote: I just started my career Another thought. I don't know what your career is, but if you really just started it, say a few months, think about this. You quit and become his as you say. 5 years from now, you separate, he dies . . . You go looking for another job in your former career. You have a whopping couple of months under your belt. You will be a newbie. An employer looking at you will be thinking, "she worked a couple months and didn't work again for 5 years". The kid fresh out of school will be hired before you. Your master should want what is best for you, both of you. Maybe what is best is that you put a few years of work under your belt before "living the dream". If I were in your shoes I would move in with another only if I could support myself. See what happens after a few years. You will have a better idea after a few years if it is going to work out in the long run. If it doesn't work out you will be in a better position.

Hierodule -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 5:38:53 PM)
Thanks everyone. Sorry if the whole slavely" thing came across as attitude. It was meant to be tongue in cheek and was a reference to the "do you ever wish you weren't a slave" thread where people were discussing if a slave had the choice to leave or not. Sarcasm doesn't always come across in text. I never questioned his motivation for changing my response. I see it as an affirmation as Porcelain said. and a way to ease my full transition into his life. To cement my commitment to him. After I told him I don't believe in forever he told me he understood but to keep saying it and to also visualize what it would be like to be his forever and describe to him how it made me feel. He doesn't really make me do things for no reason. We have talked about marriage but it doesn't feel right requiring that of him in order to be his. He was the one who pointed out that it would be in my best interest and that he wants me on his insurance. He also pointed out that he may demand it of me and asked if I would obey him if he did. I would. But again, I don't want my motivation for marriage to be financial and I don't want my motivation for service to be marriage. Porcelain, you gave some really sound advice and it does calm me down. I think I have it in my head that this is so much more than just an agreement between two people, but that's what it is. The beginning is the time to hammer all this stuff out. We both want it so it shouldn't be too hard. I am going to fight bringing all this stuff up to him as soon as he gets off work in a bit. But I will fight it. I will serve him and do what he asks. I'll think the best thing will be to wait until the next time he asks me how I feel when I say "forever" Thanks Again

Hierodule -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 5:50:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KYsissy quote: I just started my career Another thought. I don't know what your career is, but if you really just started it, say a few months, think about this. You quit and become his as you say. 5 years from now, you separate, he dies . . . You go looking for another job in your former career. You have a whopping couple of months under your belt. You will be a newbie. An employer looking at you will be thinking, "she worked a couple months and didn't work again for 5 years". The kid fresh out of school will be hired before you. Your master should want what is best for you, both of you. Maybe what is best is that you put a few years of work under your belt before "living the dream". If I were in your shoes I would move in with another only if I could support myself. See what happens after a few years. You will have a better idea after a few years if it is going to work out in the long run. If it doesn't work out you will be in a better position. This is good advice too.I didn't see it before my last response. My career is in a creative feild. We talked about me keeping it up as a freelancer. Which wouldn't pay the bills, but would keep me going on the path I chose for myself and the goals I set. The fact that he is willing to support me would give me the opportunity to persue only the projects I am really interested in. The problem is (and he and I have discussed this thoroughly) its hard for me to imagine myself getting my name and reel and resume out their for those jobs I want if I am his "kept girl." I would be so devoted to him and wrapped up in "the dream" like you said. I'm afraid he would have to order me to find those projects that I really enjoy working on or I would have no motivation. I fear losing my motivation. But I also really want to give in to it.

Aileen1968 -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 6:01:24 PM)
My parents love was forever. It can happen.

antipode -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 7:09:26 PM)
quote: what will I do? In such a situation I make contingency plans for the girl, after discussing, and put those in our contract. I tend to make sure she continues her education, for instance, and create other facilities so she won't be left stuck with nothing if I walk under a bus. If your master has only made future plans for himself you need to really ask yourself what you're doing. If he takes your independence away it would, in my book, be his responsibility to prepare for any contingencies. "Forever" is more often than not the stuff of fantasy. If you now need to add "forever" to your statement of ownership I don't get the warm and fuzzy you're in the hands of a mature adult. And to further my heresy, 24/7 begins where you are together, permanently, not before. Well, you asked...

Hierodule -> RE: forever, the future, and grim reality (10/21/2009 7:24:14 PM)
Not at all, I appreciate it. I feel like its 24/7 because I don't stop obeying him when I go home. We aren't casual partners, But I understand your point of view. also edit you did see where I said "about to enter into a 24/7 tpe relationship" did you not?

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